Shed build - help

Lumen · 05-06-2019 3:44pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Is it a drip though?
It looks more like a bleed through to me?

Though maybe heavy rain & wind would explain it.

No harm to try the drip strip though!

The shingles are soaked through so you may be right. Although that wouldn't explain why the first row is the only one affected, but it could just be less overlap.

I'm probably fussing over nothing. I've had treated fencing and a conventional shed last 12 years with no visible sign of rot, and it would only be a few hours work to rebatten if they go a bit soft.

Zebbedee · 09-06-2019 10:47am

Lumen wrote: »

It's....not perfect. Despite correctly overlapping the shingles and using a double layer at the drip edge, it seems that the water is crawling back under the drip edge and in places wetting the bottom two sets of counterbattens. The counterbattens further up are dry as a bone.

Don't worry about that first line of battens getting wet and becoming stained. I believe it's simple osmosis in action drawing the natural tannin from the cedar.

I put a cedar shingle roof on a shed with a similar pitch to yours five years back.
The exact same thing happened to mine but it never stained or became damp further up than the first line.
It's never leaked either.

my3cents · 09-06-2019 10:50am

Lumen wrote: »

... as I've windows to think about.

I'm just putting on a shed extension 8ft x 12ft to a 24ft x 12ft. Really simple standard garden shed unlike the OP's. My wife says she doesn't need windows in the extension but I'm going to prebuild the cutout required into the frame just in case because I have a couple of old hardwood double glazed windows I acquired for the job.

My point is that its a lot easier to have a frame within the shed wall to put a window into than it is to cut into the frame and put a window in. I know because I put 4 windows in the shed last year. So I'm really interested to know how Lumen does the job?

Lumen · 09-06-2019 4:26pm

my3cents wrote: »

I'm just putting on a shed extension 8ft x 12ft to a 24ft x 12ft. Really simple standard garden shed unlike the OP's. My wife says she doesn't need windows in the extension but I'm going to prebuild the cutout required into the frame just in case because I have a couple of old hardwood double glazed windows I acquired for the job.

My point is that its a lot easier to have a frame within the shed wall to put a window into than it is to cut into the frame and put a window in. I know because I put 4 windows in the shed last year. So I'm really interested to know how Lumen does the job?

My rough plan is direct mount glazing on to the studs, with one sealed unit per stud partition. I've no need for the windows to open as I designed the door opening width so that the door should be able to fold back flush with the wall, if I get the hinge position right.

Lumen · 09-06-2019 6:52pm

Finished roof (apart from ridge tile) yesterday and added the first set of gutters.

The Lindab stuff is really easy except for the hacksawing (machine tools not allowed). 20mm fall over approx 5m.

It rained heavily today and it worked! Still a small amount of ground splash so I'll need to figure something out for that...

listermint · 09-06-2019 6:57pm

Not use an angle grinder for cutting ? Much quicker and cleaner for PVC cuts.

Lumen · 09-06-2019 7:10pm

listermint wrote: »

Not use an angle grinder for cutting ? Much quicker and cleaner for PVC cuts.

It's galvanised steel. Hand tools are required to stop rust.

listermint · 10-06-2019 1:00pm

Lumen wrote: »

It's galvanised steel. Hand tools are required to stop rust.

Ah ok, Fancy

Lumen · 10-06-2019 1:31pm

listermint wrote: »

Ah ok, Fancy

Thanks for not saying "yeah, but it looks just like black PVC".

I did look at the other colours but they weren't great up close.

GreeBo · 10-06-2019 1:32pm

Lumen wrote: »

It's galvanised steel. Hand tools are required to stop rust.

How does that work?

Lumen · 10-06-2019 1:40pm

GreeBo wrote: »

How does that work?

According to instructions...

Lindab wrote:

Cut the gutters and pipes with plate shears or a hacksaw on a firm underlay on the ground. Never use an angle grinder. It heats the steel up up and thus destroyes [sic] the galvanization. The coating may also be scorched by hot chips or filings.

I also read something about a hacksaw blade spreading the galvanic coating over the exposed steel, but not sure how true that is.

TBH non-stainless steel seems like a stupid material for outdoor things, but I'm trying to keep the project plastic-free and thought copper might stain the cladding (plus this shed is already much better built than my house, so I have to draw the line somewhere).

I got a nibbler drill attachment for cutting the hole for the outlet, that should be fun.

edit: holy crap, the copper stuff costs about €23 per fascia bracket!

GreeBo · 10-06-2019 1:50pm

Lumen wrote: »

According to instructions...

I also read something about a hacksaw blade spreading the galvanic coating over the exposed steel, but not sure how true that is.

TBH non-stainless steel seems like a stupid material for outdoor things, but I'm trying to keep the project plastic-free and thought copper might stain the cladding (plus this shed is already much better built than my house, so I have to draw the line somewhere).

I got a nibbler drill attachment for cutting the hole for the outlet, that should be fun.

edit: holy crap, the copper stuff costs about €23 per fascia bracket!

Ahh the heating...that makes sense.

I couldnt think of how the steel knew what was cutting it!

Yeah copper is crazy at the moment....did you look at alu?

Lumen · 10-06-2019 2:17pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Yeah copper is crazy at the moment....did you look at alu?

Oh, I remember the other reason I didn't want copper, it'll get nicked!

I did briefly look at alu but I vaguely recall reading that it was harder to install, and the Lindab install videos made the steel stuff look really easy, so I couldn't be bothered to keep searching.

my3cents · 10-06-2019 3:50pm

Lumen wrote: »

It's galvanised steel. Hand tools are required to stop rust.

I assume its much thicker than decent quality corrugated galvanized iron roof sheets because I routinely cut cgi with a cutting disk in an angle grinder and have never had a problem with rust?

Lumen · 10-06-2019 4:15pm

my3cents wrote: »

I assume its much thicker than decent quality corrugated galvanized iron roof sheets because I routinely cut cgi with a cutting disk in an angle grinder and have never had a problem with rust?

Do you treat or paint the cut ends?

my3cents · 10-06-2019 4:57pm

Lumen wrote: »

Do you treat or paint the cut ends?

When I first started using cgi on roofs the thought did occur to me but I never got around to it and never had a problem. I've rarely if ever had to replace cgi that has rusted from a cut end and I found that the only realistic way of cutting it is with a thin stainless steel cutting disk in an angle grinder. I've tried plenty of other ways including a sheet metal saw (like a hacksaw strapped to a panel saw one of the better solutions) but keep going back to the ss cutting disks.

I actually think the heat produced is partly a good thing as the galvanized can only melt and re-solidify hopefully over a some of the cut surface?

However with a really thick section of steel thats galvanized I can imagine that it could hold enough heat to damage the galvanizing?

Lumen · 10-06-2019 5:19pm

my3cents wrote: »

However with a really thick section of steel thats galvanized I can imagine that it could hold enough heat to damage the galvanizing?

More likely that thicker steel acts like a big heat sink to pull heat away from the galvanized surface.

From the various forums I read, galvanized steel guttering is usually fine away from coastal exposure. Lindab used to do (and maybe still do) a "raw" galvanized finish but now they promote a variant that is also painted over the top.

I'll probably splash a bit of black paint over the cut ends at some point, they're hidden under the unions so it doesn't have to be perfect.

Lumen · 16-06-2019 9:56pm

Finished the guttering, apart from a leaf guard that's on back-order and one last union (I miscalculated quantity or lost one).

This would be completely unremarkable except I got to use a new tool, a power nibbler drill attachment, to make the hole for the outlet.

https://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-power-nibbler-900038

It makes for easy freehand chomping through sheet steel.

Naturally everything looks worse in pictures than in real life, but I think it worked out OK. There's no sharp edges to cause injuries when sweeping leaves out the gutter.

The downpipe is positioned to one side at the back of the shed to keep water away from the ground screws, hence the asymmetrical looking angles. Once I have the leaf guard the water will be routed underground to a 20m perforated drainage pipe I've dug in down the hedge line.

my3cents · 16-06-2019 10:28pm

So when you finally clad it you are going to have to take the guttering off and refix it allowing for the thickness of the cladding?

Lumen · 16-06-2019 10:51pm

my3cents wrote: »

So when you finally clad it you are going to have to take the guttering off and refix it allowing for the thickness of the cladding?

Nope. The vertical cladding will butt up to the gutters, so they'll be part inside and part outside the ventilation gap.

Lumen · 16-06-2019 10:55pm

Walked past the tourist information booth in DL yesterday and got some snaps.

This is much like what I'm aiming for.

Lumen · 17-06-2019 10:33am

Warning: wankery forthcoming....

The Siberian Larch cladding is really expensive, and it's even more expensive with factory-applied SiOO:X treatment, which provides consistent weathering and avoids the sort of staining patterns you see on that Tourist Information booth above.

Basically it works out at 2.5k for the amount I need. Which seems absolutely insane. If I was to use normal pressure-treated PAO softwood it would be something like 600 quid.

Aside from the fact that I want to get windows sorted before I clad, that's why I'm still dithering over it.

The other thing is that I can't find a single example of vertical larch cladding combined with (western red) cedar roof shingles, possibly because the wood and architectural styles are from different continents.

I fear I may end up with something expensive that looks awful, a gigantic architectural folly.

Maybe cedar shingles all over would be better, if not really any cheaper....

Rows Grower · 17-06-2019 10:40am

Lumen, this is going on over 11 months. Just finish the shed.

Lumen · 17-06-2019 11:19am

Rows Grower wrote: »

Lumen, this is going on over 11 months. Just finish the shed.

I know, I know!

Just door, steps and windows to go, the cladding is really only cosmetic.

listermint · 17-06-2019 12:31pm

Lumen wrote: »

Warning: wankery forthcoming....

The Siberian Larch cladding is really expensive, and it's even more expensive with factory-applied SiOO:X treatment, which provides consistent weathering and avoids the sort of staining patterns you see on that Tourist Information booth above.

Basically it works out at 2.5k for the amount I need. Which seems absolutely insane. If I was to use normal pressure-treated PAO softwood it would be something like 600 quid.

Aside from the fact that I want to get windows sorted before I clad, that's why I'm still dithering over it.

The other thing is that I can't find a single example of vertical larch cladding combined with (western red) cedar roof shingles, possibly because the wood and architectural styles are from different continents.

I fear I may end up with something expensive that looks awful, a gigantic architectural folly.

Maybe cedar shingles all over would be better, if not really any cheaper....

Price around, some suppliers may come without the wankery price. If you ask wankery places and tell them what its for they think you have money.

https://www.donedeal.ie/trailers-for-sale/larch-douglas-fir-timber-for-trailer-floor-bed/21704702

hesker · 17-06-2019 9:15pm

If you want to fit vertical cladding you will need horizontal counterbattens. Also those gaps while they look good also allow easy access for our furry friends.

Larch is one timber that takes quite well to working from green.

I bought this from a sawmill for about 1/8th of the price I was being quoted for finished T&G.

I did the T&G myself on a table saw and it worked out fairly well I think. I could have planed the surface to get an even better finish but I plan on letting it age and grey naturally anyway.

That grey patching at the bottom was some rain splash that caught me out but it has faded out now.

Lumen · 17-06-2019 9:55pm

That's lovely, hesker.

Interesting about the costs. Was it Siberian Larch or more local stuff?

The profile I'm looking at is the 15 degree double rainscreen, which I could probably do fine with my tracksaw.

hesker wrote: »

Also those gaps while they look good also allow easy access for our furry friends.

Yeah, I read that mesh is suggested on all entries to the cavity but I'm not sure I can be bothered. I spent hours under the shed attaching the mouse mesh and it wasn't fun!

hesker wrote: »

That grey patching at the bottom was some rain splash that caught me out but it has faded out now.

I'm currently creating a 50cm gravel section round the uphill half of the shed, slightly complicated (as ever) by the 10% slope. Hopefully the splash off the gravel will be clean enough not to stain.

hesker · 17-06-2019 10:05pm

It’s Irish grown. The heartwood is the more resilient portion but you’ll pay a lot to get heartwood only.

I reckon it will see me out. I took off a few timbers after about 3 years and it was perfect inside but as you probably know having the right venting and drainage design is key.

Don’t regret for one moment making it myself. It would take you a bit of time but sure where’s the rush

Zebbedee · 21-06-2019 8:00am

Lumen wrote: »

Maybe cedar shingles all over would be better, if not really any cheaper....

Have you considered wainey edge natural cedar boards? The combination with cedar shingles looks great. I got 10 inch by 3/4 inch boards cut in the sawmill in Glenealy. Worked out very cheap.

Lumen · 21-06-2019 9:23am

Zebbedee wrote: »

Have you considered wainey edge natural cedar boards? The combination with cedar shingles looks great. I got 10 inch by 3/4 inch boards cut in the sawmill in Glenealy. Worked out very cheap.

Yeah, I was thinking that cedar+cedar would be good but had discounted using shingles as they are as expensive as the highest quality, most expensive treated Siberian larch and more fragile. Whereas the waney stuff might work.

Got any pics?

Shed build - help

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