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Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

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  • Options
    #2132
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/tadhg-furlong-now-one-of-irish-rugby-s-top-earners-1.3497851?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fsport%2Frugby%2Ftadhg-furlong-now-one-of-irish-rugby-s-top-earners-1.3497851
    Having featured prominently during the Lions series in New Zealand last summer, the Wexford tighthead prop was able to command a salary of €500,000-plus, which only leaves him behind deals negotiated by Conor Murray and Johnny Sexton in recent seasons."

    So nowhere near the nearly 1 million you were claiming? Ok good, another fallacy debunked to go with your claims about central contracts.
    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Look at Porter, what happens if he has a monster season, while Furlong is on nearly a million. Its unsustainable.


  • Options
    #2133
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    readyohyeah wrote: »
    Let's think about it. If Irish players were let play abroad and still play internationals. You could have a situation where a player like Larmour was getting to play full back in the English premiership for example while Kearney had the 15 jersey at Leinster. A list of young players could be learning their trade abroad, we'd have far more options to select players playing in form and at a high level. If Murray moved from Munster because of a big check, a space would be open for another player to develop. It really is something that we should consider.

    You do realise the IRFU are reliant on the provinces performing in the Pro14 and the Heineken Cup, yes?

    You weaken the provinces then that doesn’t exactly become the case anymore.

    People really have a hard time grasping the impact this would have.


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    #2134
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    aloooof wrote: »
    So nowhere near the nearly 1 million you were claiming? Ok good, another fallacy debunked to go with your claims about central contracts.

    I'd say he gets good money from sponsorship. and who knows if its topped up...but ooooh yeah you've debunked me. Well done sir


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    #2135
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You do realise the IRFU are reliant on the provinces performing in the Pro14 and the Heineken Cup, yes?

    You weaken the provinces then that doesn’t exactly become the case anymore.

    People really have a hard time grasping the impact this would have.

    The Pro 14 that they players hardly ever play in? The derbies that have been destroyed by player protocols? Did the sky fall in when Sexton played abroad?


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    #2136
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You do realise the IRFU are reliant on the provinces performing in the Pro14 and the Heineken Cup, yes?

    You weaken the provinces then that doesn’t exactly become the case anymore.

    People really have a hard time grasping the impact this would have.

    Add to that, one of the criticisms of the Pro14 is that the likes of Murray etc. don't play enough. There's plenty of game time available to develop other players while retaining out best players.


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    #2137
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You do realise the IRFU are reliant on the provinces performing in the Pro14 and the Heineken Cup, yes?

    You weaken the provinces then that doesn’t exactly become the case anymore.

    People really have a hard time grasping the impact this would have.

    I don't think they are reliant on it - I think they are more seen as bonuses. International rugby is definitely providing the majority of the beans. It would signal the end of Leinster or Munster having realistic chances of winning in Europe though which would be very hard to take. I imagine the provinces are much more so the entry point for a lot of fans rather than the national team as they are more accessible.


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    #2138
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    The Pro 14 that they players hardly ever play in? The derbies that have been destroyed by player protocols? Did the sky fall in when Sexton played abroad?

    ‘The Derbies that have been destroyed by player protocols’.

    Again, more nonsense. The three games between Munster and Leinster were great encounters last year. Leinster and Connacht at the RDS was one of the best games of the year and featured plenty of internationals.

    You keep posting your opinion and presenting it as fact when it’s nowhere near the case then you whinge that we’re all picking on you.


  • Options
    #2139
    readyohyeah
    Site Banned Posts: 13 ✭readyohyeah


    Faugheen wrote: »
    You do realise the IRFU are reliant on the provinces performing in the Pro14 and the Heineken Cup, yes?

    You weaken the provinces then that doesn’t exactly become the case anymore.

    People really have a hard time grasping the impact this would have.

    And why wouldn't they perform? Most of the Pro14 is played without internationals anyway.

    It would get more Irish players exposed to top level rugby. Other countries have had to change their approach. Just look at the World Cup champions. They changed their stance, do you think they would have won the World Cup without their overseas players? Not a chance. Like I said, this is something we should look into seriously.


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    #2140
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Will you please stop you have been posting nonsense yourself all world cup. Theres nothing bitter about it i know some of the players and people involved. One person even told me like yourself i was talking **** basically. Fair enough but they are involved i respect that. I don't respect people talking others down constantly, yet offer nothing themselves. Just happy with the status quo. Even though, like i said they have been proved wrong.

    Farrell is better i agree. I have no great interest in whether he stays or goes. It will melt alot of heads. In the project side, the central contract nonsense, the arrogance around our system etc. I hope Aki goes it will blow it all open. Sure didn't someone post a rumour here that Farrell was looking at this "law". It wouldn't surprise me. Players could be actively discouraged but given the ok if they jump through enough hoops.

    The story changes everytime. First it was you shared a pitch, then you back tracked on that

    Now you know the players :P


    What do you describe as the status quo? if you are referring to the current IRFU which is the envy of the majority of the rugby World then yes I am happy

    If you are referring to the management then its a whole new team so I have no idea if happy or not because they haven't had a team play a game yet, come back to me in 2 year will update then


    As I said above, you seem to hate everything about the IRFU and rugby, so better off just staying away from it.....and the rugby people you know :P:P:P


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    #2141
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    readyohyeah wrote: »
    And why wouldn't they perform? Most of the Pro14 is played without internationals anyway.

    It would get more Irish players exposed to top level rugby. Other countries have had to change their approach. Just look at the World Cup champions. They changed their stance, do you think they would have won the World Cup without their overseas players? Not a chance. Like I said, this is something we should look into seriously.

    Well I’d rather the IRFU be able to control the players instead of a French club demanding they return to the team during gap weeks in the Six Nations.

    I don’t see anything that suggests having our best players leave the provinces would be a benefit to the national team.


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    #2142
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    readyohyeah wrote: »
    And why wouldn't they perform? Most of the Pro14 is played without internationals anyway.

    It would get more Irish players exposed to top level rugby. Other countries have had to change their approach. Just look at the World Cup champions. They changed their stance, do you think they would have won the World Cup without their overseas players? Not a chance. Like I said, this is something we should look into seriously.


    SA rugby has no money, it had no option. All their players have left to make a living. Using that as a reference is ridiculous


    If SA could they would have every player in SA


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    #2143
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Faugheen wrote: »
    ‘The Derbies that have been destroyed by player protocols’.

    Again, more nonsense. The three games between Munster and Leinster were great encounters last year. Leinster and Connacht at the RDS was one of the best games of the year and featured plenty of internationals.

    You keep posting your opinion and presenting it as fact when it’s nowhere near the case then you whinge that we’re all picking on you.

    Yeah they were excellent games with alot of front line players.

    but no more my issue is you ignoring reality and me providing some backing to my statements whereas you just say nonsense or bizarre...

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-often-pro14s-best-players-15150535

    ROG also questioned whether we play too few pro 14 games now.


  • Options
    #2144
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    The story changes everytime. First it was you shared a pitch, then you back tracked on that

    Now you know the players :P


    What do you describe as the status quo? if you are referring to the current IRFU which is the envy of the majority of the rugby World then yes I am happy

    If you are referring to the management then its a whole new team so I have no idea if happy or not because they haven't had a team play a game yet, come back to me in 2 year will update then


    As I said above, you seem to hate everything about the IRFU and rugby, so better off just staying away from it.....and the rugby people you know :P:P:P

    yeah i hate rugby do i? you know me now do you? Do you play yourself still? cos i'd love to know if you fancy coming up training some day i could give you a club and a date and you can test my love for the game, within the four corners of a pitch of course ;)


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    #2145
    readyohyeah
    Site Banned Posts: 13 ✭readyohyeah


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Well I’d rather the IRFU be able to control the players instead of a French club demanding they return to the team during gap weeks in the Six Nations.

    I don’t see anything that suggests having our best players leave the provinces would be a benefit to the national team.

    So you can't see any benefit in players playing top level competitions week in week out instead of sitting on the bench for their province during the European Cup? It will develop a far higher number of players that we'll be able to select from.

    It's works for other countries, it worked for South Africa. It could work for us.


  • Options
    #2146
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Yeah they were excellent games with alot of front line players.

    but no more my issue is you ignoring reality and me providing some backing to my statements whereas you just say nonsense or bizarre...

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-often-pro14s-best-players-15150535

    ROG also questioned whether we play too few pro 14 games now.


    Walesonline :P even the Welsh know its the biggest click bait site in the World....


    Next you will link Franno, he a mate as well?



    Link to ROG saying the Pro14 plays too few games?


  • Options
    #2147
    readyohyeah
    Site Banned Posts: 13 ✭readyohyeah


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    SA rugby has no money, it had no option. All their players have left to make a living. Using that as a reference is ridiculous


    If SA could they would have every player in SA

    They lifted their ban, it worked a treat. World Cup champions while we were World Cup chumps yet again. Time for a change of approach.


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    #2148
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    readyohyeah wrote: »
    So you can't see any benefit in players playing top level competitions week in week out instead of sitting on the bench for their province during the European Cup? It will develop a far higher number of players that we'll be able to select from.

    It's works for other countries, it worked for South Africa. It could work for us.


    So every country in the World wants to copy Ireland and NZ model but Irish fans want to move away from it??


  • Options
    #2149
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    readyohyeah wrote: »
    They lifted their ban, it worked a treat. World Cup champions while we were World Cup chumps yet again. Time for a change of approach.


    Yes we should ruin Irish rugby in the hope of getting past a qtr final in 4 years time


    What happens in 4 years if we fail at another qtr final???? whats your great idea then??


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    #2150
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Yeah they were excellent games with alot of front line players.

    but no more my issue is you ignoring reality and me providing some backing to my statements whereas you just say nonsense or bizarre...

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-often-pro14s-best-players-15150535

    ROG also questioned whether we play too few pro 14 games now.

    So you’re going back on your bollocks that the derbies have been ‘destroyed by player protocols’? Good to know.

    If the big players aren’t playing every week then fringe players get the chance to play and make their mark. You’ve been pinching yourself with excitement over Ronan Kelleher but he wouldn’t have a chance if we didn’t have the player management systems in place and we had Cronin playing every week.

    Do you want younger lads getting a chance or do you want the big players playing every week? You’ve argued for both cases in the last couple of hours.

    Again, you keep arguing for the sake of arguing and it’s got to the point whether you don’t know if you want one thing or the other.


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    #2151
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Walesonline :P even the Welsh know its the biggest click bait site in the World....


    Next you will link Franno, he a mate as well?



    Link to ROG saying the Pro14 plays too few games?

    https://www.rugbypass.com/

    ok all the stats there all of them. Even carries, passes. In black and white. all your poor analysis and backing of the wrong horse and your heroes, is there.

    you'll also notice how the top line cc players played **** all pro 14, which somehow is being used as a yardstick to the health of irish rugby. even though they barely play in it.

    This all started with somebody saying it was bizarre.

    Yes its totally bizarre to take Zebo, SOB , Madigan, and perhaps Aki into consideration. GUBU indeed.

    None of the naysayers have offered anything but anecdotal whataboutery. Irish rugby would die etc....how? lower attendances, losses, financial...how? The pyramid is now so loaded again towards the irish team that does it really matter where they play? I'd go down and watch Scott Penny, Kelleher, et al any day over Kearney, Earls whoever. Its like the RTE "stars" argument. Sure nobody would be queuing up for some of these lads. Others over a certain number deserve the payoff and it frees up space. And if it lessers the depth then start looking among the 1500 players that play below that. They found Balacounne, McCLoskey handy enough no? They can afford not to contract Kennedy, Conroy, Dardis.


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    #2152
    readyohyeah
    Site Banned Posts: 13 ✭readyohyeah


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    So every country in the World wants to copy Ireland and NZ model but Irish fans want to move away from it??

    What's your argument against more Irish players getting top level experience? Hoe can that hurt us?


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    #2153
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    readyohyeah wrote: »
    What's your argument against more Irish players getting top level experience? Hoe can that hurt us?


    Sorry what is your argument?


    Take the best Irish players and send them to England/France so they have to play week in/week out?
    Not get released for any ireland camps outside the internationals?
    Weaken the provinces so they struggle to perform in Europe?

    Suddenly magic up 100's of Irish rugby players from the AIL that are going to light up Europe?

    P.S. Do you actually think the current crop of excellent coachs that are in Ireland would come over if they don't have a chance of winning something?


    Is that your plan?


  • Options
    #2154
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    Yeah they were excellent games with alot of front line players.

    but no more my issue is you ignoring reality and me providing some backing to my statements whereas you just say nonsense or bizarre...

    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/how-often-pro14s-best-players-15150535

    ROG also questioned whether we play too few pro 14 games now.

    But you haven’t provided any backing or evidence to your statements. All the evidence provided has countered your claims.


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    #2155
    readyohyeah
    Site Banned Posts: 13 ✭readyohyeah


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Yes we should ruin Irish rugby in the hope of getting past a qtr final in 4 years time


    What happens in 4 years if we fail at another qtr final???? whats your great idea then??

    What are you talking about? How would it ruin Irish rugby, it would do the opposite! It would make us far stronger.

    mod - rereg, banned.


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    #2156
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    aloooof wrote: »
    But you haven’t provided any backing or evidence to your statements. All the evidence provided has countered your claims.

    you haven't though. You found a small chink in Furlongs money and McGraths CC. I said Toner also had a CC and was dropped. The top end marketable stars are in a different league. Thats your RK, POM, Furlong, Murray, Jono. I said that all in one of the posts.


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    #2157
    readyohyeah
    Site Banned Posts: 13 ✭readyohyeah


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Sorry what is your argument?


    Take the best Irish players and send them to England/France so they have to play week in/week out?
    Not get released for any ireland camps outside the internationals?
    Weaken the provinces so they struggle to perform in Europe?

    Suddenly magic up 100's of Irish rugby players from the AIL that are going to light up Europe?

    P.S. Do you actually think the current crop of excellent coachs that are in Ireland would come over if they don't have a chance of winning something?


    Is that your plan?

    So what is your argument against more Irish players getting top level experience?


  • Options
    #2158
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,214 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    you haven't though. You found a small chink in Furlongs money and McGraths CC. I said Toner also had a CC and was dropped.

    So more evidence against what you were claiming. While I’m still here waiting to see you provide a shred of evidence for your central contract claim. But there isn’t any cos it’s bollox.


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    #2159
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    readyohyeah wrote: »
    So what is your argument against more Irish players getting top level experience?


    Good answer.....


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    #2160
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    you haven't though. You found a small chink in Furlongs money and McGraths CC. I said Toner also had a CC and was dropped. The top end marketable stars are in a different league. Thats your RK, POM, Furlong, Murray, Jono. I said that all in one of the posts.


    Link to ROG saying the Pro14 teams play too few games would be good as well?


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    #2161
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    aloooof wrote: »
    So more evidence against what you were claiming. While I’m still here waiting to see you provide a shred of evidence for your central contract claim. But there isn’t any cos it’s bollox.

    Ok its all bollix, all nonsense you win. bizarre also i think i missed that one.

    Players moving abroad would destroy Irish rugby, even though some of the players will struggle to break through the jam, and other provinces will be overrun with out of towners. Having a select 9 players out of a team game of 15, on big deals, with obvious bells and whistles attatched, despite form, or lack of it is perfect for us. You've convinced me. I take it all back

    We are the envy of the World, the team who has never made it past the quarter finals of the World Cup.


This discussion has been closed.
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