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Why do Irish people support English teams?

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  • Options
    #962
    DeanAustin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,783 ✭✭✭DeanAustin


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    You don't need to pick GAA or LOI you can do both.

    I think in fairness a few years back I remember a bit of a fuss about a Premier league chairman calling fans customers or something along those lines.

    Here's the thing that's grand but imagine making those memories every Friday night

    Lots of people only choose one sport to really follow.


  • Options
    #963
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Plenty do just enjoy the sports. But ask yourself... Why is the World Cup so big? Why is the GAA Championship so popular? Why are derby games the ones with the best atmospheres. It's tribal. Sport is tribal by its very essence. The two things are intertwined and it's better for it.

    That is the word I wish I used.
    Tribal.
    You don't pick your tribe you are born into it.

    Those who pick thier tribe are basically choosing thier extended family.

    You are born into a family/tribe and stuck with them whether you like it or not.
    Putting on the warpaint of another tribe and tagging along for the experience is hardly the same thing?

    That is just my view on it deep down it is your community.
    Not someone else's - yours.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #964
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    martingriff wrote: »
    Never in my life have I heard this unless it was in jest.

    I have. I also was told ''enjoy your Sunday league football'' when I was on my way to a match (on a Friday, no less!). I must tell him to enjoy his British TV show next time his team are playing :P


  • Options
    #965
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Donnielighto wrote: »
    It's a long running soap opera and supporting a team adds to the drama.

    So basically it's Eastenders for blokes? Emmerdale away is gonna be tough and then Corrie in the cup :p


  • Options
    #966
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Lots of people only choose one sport to really follow.

    I'd say the majority of people don't. Maybe to play but most people I know would follow a few sports


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  • Options
    #967
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Plenty do just enjoy the sports. But ask yourself... Why is the World Cup so big? Why is the GAA Championship so popular? Why are derby games the ones with the best atmospheres. It's tribal. Sport is tribal by its very essence. The two things are intertwined and it's better for it.

    Most of the viewers of a World Cup final or All Ireland final are neutrals though.
    And a Champions League final v All ireland final, much difference in intensity? Nope.
    Sport isn't tribal in its essence, though as humans are a tribal species we tag it as such.
    The soccer teams we are discussing in this thread weren't formed by tribes or to encourage tribalism. County or country teams only exist because of clubs - which came first. They were all just groups of players starting out, one team of many in a city or town.

    Sport doesn't need spectators. It doesn't need fans. It just needs players and participants.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #968
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    DeanAustin wrote: »
    Will hopefully get him to some LOI games during the summer. He should know there’s football here too and my LOI team are even more of a **** up than Spurs so I’m looking forward to proper ruining his life...

    Destroy his hopes and dreams. Tell him he's going to watch Celtic vs AC Milan in Champions League and then bring him to Shamrock Rovers vs Longford Town in the League Cup 2nd Round.... in Longford.


  • Options
    #969
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    Omackeral wrote: »
    Destroy his hopes and dreams. Tell him he's going to watch Celtic vs AC Milan in Champions League and then bring him to Shamrock Rovers vs Longford Town in the League Cup 2nd Round.... in Longford.

    Longford is luxury in comparison to most. Down to Ferrycarrig.


  • Options
    #970
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    martingriff wrote: »
    But then all sports are brands and you are a consumer. It does not matter where that team or person is from you support

    No they are not.
    Because when a club involves locals it involves your friends family - community in a club.

    Look at the Premier League clubs are followed world wide and the locals give out about the atmosphere because the crowd are there for a spectacle not a game.

    If you are local and your team loses you have to rub shoulders with opposing rivals for the whole year. In Ireland the Premier League supporters try to ape that but it seems very forced.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #971
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    I think this saying says it better than anything else.

    BhuNRmTCQAA-biJ.jpg



    football-not-a-TV-show.jpg?resize=600%2C402



    CpoxvHMUIAAieM6.jpg


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  • Options
    #972
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Most of the viewers of a World Cup final or All Ireland final are neutrals though.
    And a Champions League final v All ireland final, much difference in intensity? Nope.
    Sport isn't tribal in its essence, though as humans are a tribal species we tag it as such.
    The soccer teams we are discussing in this thread weren't formed by tribes or to encourage tribalism. County or country teams only exist because of clubs - which came first. They were all just groups of players starting out, one team of many in a city or town.

    We disagree. Majorly
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Sport doesn't need spectators. It doesn't need fans. It just needs players and participants.

    ''Football without fans is nothing'' - Jock Stein


  • Options
    #973
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,685 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    No they are not.
    Because when a club involves locals it involves your friends family - community in a club.

    Look at the Premier League clubs are followed world wide and the locals give out about the atmosphere because the crowd are there for a spectacle not a game.

    If you are local and your team loses you have to rub shoulders with opposing rivals for the whole year. In Ireland the Premier League supporters try to ape that but it seems very forced.

    My closest LOI is in limerick so by your definition it's a brand. Just because you show a "local" teams does not mean you know anyone in it.


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    #974
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Most of the viewers of a World Cup final or All Ireland final are neutrals though.
    And a Champions League final v All ireland final, much difference in intensity? Nope.
    Sport isn't tribal in its essence, though as humans are a tribal species we tag it as such.
    The soccer teams we are discussing in this thread weren't formed by tribes or to encourage tribalism. County or country teams only exist because of clubs - which came first. They were all just groups of players starting out, one team of many in a city or town.

    Sport doesn't need spectators. It doesn't need fans. It just needs players and participants.

    You've just added the final bit yourself.
    Actually yeah, an all Ireland final is far more intense.
    Sport is actually very tribal, every single team was formed by a tribe, it may have expanded as tribes do but at its roots its still a tribe.


  • Options
    #975
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    OldMrBrennan83 wrote: »
    Longford is luxury in comparison to most. Down to Ferrycarrig.

    They've literally got a wine bar. #notions


  • Options
    #976
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I'm part owner of my club so I'm literally part of it. It's enjoyable. It's a place where I've formed life-long friendships. It gives me joy and pride and ups and downs. It's a great sense of community. Doesn't feel arbitrary.

    I saw this fella on you tube.



    And I thought jayus fair fcuks to him - and he does not even get to see the home games!

    I saw it after a few days Rovers v Bohs was on the telly - looked like a great atmosphere.

    So there and then. I booked a ticket to see Rovers v Dundalk next month.

    I will be a neutral as I am a GAA head (as some would term me) but will assume it will be tense anyway. Only for 15€ plus 1€ booking fee.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #977
    odyssey06
    Registered Users Posts: 27,867 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    You've just added the final bit yourself.
    Actually yeah, an all Ireland final is far more intense.
    Sport is actually very tribal, every single team was formed by a tribe, it may have expanded as tribes do but at its roots its still a tribe.

    No it wasn't. A group of players that form a club to play a sport isn't a tribe. It's an arbitary happenstance association of people. Some of those players even transfer from one abritary association to another. Clearly, not a tribe.
    Humans have overlain pre-existing tribal associations onto sport such as county, province, country. But soccer didn't start out as tribal and in fact most of the most successful clubs are those who are best at attracting new fans and supporters, rather than those then retreat into their locality.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Options
    #978
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    martingriff wrote: »
    My closest LOI is in limerick so by your definition it's a brand. Just because you show a "local" teams does not mean you know anyone in it.

    Wouldn't you get to know them? The same goes for any sport - boxing, rugby, GAA.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #979
    Dr Bob
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    RobMc59 wrote: »
    I haven't got any argument-it's common knowledge here in the Liverpool area that up until the late 60s/early 70's everton were regarded as Catholic and Liverpool protestant-thankfully that has disappeared and people couldn't care less.
    My dad, grandad and great uncle lived and worked there in the late fifties ,early sixties and that's what they told me , that Irish immigrants tended to support Everton.
    G.Uncle stayed on and lived around Liverpool for the rest of his life , but My Dad's family came back mid 60s .
    MOTD was big here by then and most people started supporting the more glamorous /successful clubs.
    Whole family were toffees went back to see games at Goodison and visit family there every few years , I grew up supporting them as a kid (this being the 80s so basically everyone else was either a Utd or Liverpool fan , although I did meet a guy who supported Ipswich town once.), not really into football now but I do like to see them do well.


  • Options
    #980
    D14Rugby
    Registered Users Posts: 2,815 ✭✭✭D14Rugby


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No it wasn't. A group of players that form a club to play a sport isn't a tribe. It's an arbitary happenstance association of people. Some of those players even transfer from one abritary association to another. Clearly, not a tribe.
    Humans have overlain pre-existing tribal associations onto sport such as county, province, country. But soccer didn't start out as tribal and in fact most of the most successful clubs are those who are best at attracting new fans and supporters, rather than those then retreat into their locality.

    Lets look at a few, Your favourite it seems, Everton, a tribe of a church, Man United, a tribe of Railway workers, Arsenal a tribe of factory workers, we could go on forever here. Every single football club has roots as a tribe of some sort. Actually no. The big clubs now are actually very similar to those that were big years before the idea of supporting a club from another town even entered anyone's mind


  • Options
    #981
    Dr Bob
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    Omackeral wrote: »
    I think this saying says it better than anything else.

    BhuNRmTCQAA-biJ.jpg

    They've played FIFA , they know its a video game ;)


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    #982
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No it wasn't. A group of players that form a club to play a sport isn't a tribe. It's an arbitary happenstance association of people. Some of those players even transfer from one abritary association to another. Clearly, not a tribe.
    Humans have overlain pre-existing tribal associations onto sport such as county, province, country. But soccer didn't start out as tribal and in fact most of the most successful clubs are those who are best at attracting new fans and supporters, rather than those then retreat into their locality.

    Ah it is a tribe -

    It is the whole reason there is Celtic v Rangers etc

    It is formed from the basis of societal difference AC Milan v Inter.

    Football clubs are the manifestations of local rivalries, tribes or disagreements and splits.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Options
    #983
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,685 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    Wouldn't you get to know them? The same goes for any sport - boxing, rugby, GAA.

    Why go out of my way to know someone just becaus they play. If I meet them out and about sure but no I will not go let's get to know them


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    #984
    jk23
    Closed Accounts Posts: 877 ✭✭✭jk23


    This guy is a Liverpool fan from Liverpool and he was interviewed a couple of years ago on Liverpool and the top clubs in England It's well worth a listen
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmNsWzHgxC8


  • Options
    #985
    Dr Bob
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 3,180 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dr Bob


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    No it wasn't. A group of players that form a club to play a sport isn't a tribe. It's an arbitary happenstance association of people. Some of those players even transfer from one abritary association to another. Clearly, not a tribe.
    Humans have overlain pre-existing tribal associations onto sport such as county, province, country. But soccer didn't start out as tribal and in fact most of the most successful clubs are those who are best at attracting new fans and supporters, rather than those then retreat into their locality.

    Going to add something to that as well .
    Sports can be a sort of civilized warfare ..it gets to act as a sort of release valve for tension , without all the messy bloodshed of actual war (well until you get into hooliganism I guess)
    If I support the local team , and everyone around me supports the same team ...well I'm ordinary . If I support some different team , well that makes me a bit special ..if I meet other supporters here , well we're part of a tribe that's surrounded by other non tribe members , it gives us a kind of bond. And 'your' team winning when you're watching in a pub full of supporters of the other guys is a fantastic feeling (especially if its the 1995 FA cup final and you're in a pub full of smug united supporters ;)
    Why that all breaks down when we deal with national games , I dont know..possibly its the fact that the country goes so nuts whenever Ireland start doing well ?? ;)


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    #986
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Dr Bob wrote: »
    And 'your' team winning when you're watching in a pub full of supporters is a fantastic feeling

    Imagine being at it instead. 1,000,000 times better.


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    #987
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,720 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    gormdubhgorm wrote: »
    That normally is best when there is a local rivalry, which is why when you are from that place you are really into it.
    The neutral can never get that same feel as the local...
    It is not the same, it is like you are in a play, it seems forced and fake.
    You don't have to be from the area to be really into it. The passion, joy, pain, attachment and love is the same for the manu/Liverpool supporter living in Dublin as for the LOI fan. There's nothing artificial about a Dub following an English team, my English team have given me hundredths of wonderful memories, made my friendships stronger, made my family bonds stronger and made my working relationships stronger. There's nothing neutral about a supporter of an English team. The reality is the connection I feel now to my English club cannot be matched by a LOI team.


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    #988
    gormdubhgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 18,218 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Listen to this for cognitive dissonance -

    He gives out about people supporting multiple European teams, but sees nothing wrong with supporting Real Madrid and LA Galaxy.

    He tries to argue why he is not a glory-hunter for supporting Real Madrid and just quotes Dennis Bergkamp....basically saying there are a variety of reasons.... :D





    He even brings Mecca and Christianity into it as part of his argument....


    This Irish fella refers to the disconnect between local fans at Liverpool and the creation of 'Liverpool brand'.


    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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    #989
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    I don't know why Irish people support English teams but I do think it's time to wind up united. It's going nowhere.


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    #990
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    Greyfox wrote: »
    my English team have given me hundredths of wonderful memories.

    That's not a great fraction!


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    #991
    trashcan
    Registered Users Posts: 3,906 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Greyfox wrote: »
    The reality is the connection I feel now to my English club cannot be matched by a LOI team.

    That's pretty sad if true, and it's your loss to be honest. If you are a Liverpool or Man U fan you really are just a number. If you support a team here you are genuinely making a difference to that club. I used to "support" Man City as a kid. Imagine the fun I could be having now as my team lords it over the rest in England. The reality is it means less than nothing to me. I realised many years ago that Manchester has nothing to do with me. When I started to go to Richmond Park regularly it all fell into place for me. I've seen us win leagues with five minutes to go, I've seen epic battles with rivals, and even got to see us break a fifty year hoodoo and win the FAI cup. Magical times that could not be replicated by watching an English team winning on the TV.

    If that's your bag, then fine, but as I say it really is your loss.


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