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The Sub 4 Support Thread

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭smashiner


    A big congrats to all of you that managed the Sub 4, great achievement, well done!!

    I didn't quite manage it this year myself, I felt strangely lethargic at the start of the race for some reason, I did the first 10K in 58 minutes, but it felt harder than it should have. I hit the HM point in 2:01, perfect pacing but again felt a bit 'meh', I pushed the pace a little as planned at mile 16 and caught back up with where I needed to be but knew that I was bluffing it a bit.

    I sensibly decided to back off a little after Mile 20 as I was starting to fade anyway. I ran the last 4-5 miles a bit slower but solid enough and finished a 4:07:52, a 10 minute PB on 2015, so I was happy with that. I probably could have done a 4:04/4:05 on the day if I didn't push between miles 16-20, but a part of me want to 'have a go at it' anyway, so no regrets anyway.

    Thanks again to RayCun and Murph_D and other mentors for the really useful tips on this thread.....I will probably be back next year to have another go...:cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭duffer247


    Came in at 3:51 and very happy with time.
    I was one of the 2015 Novice group and completed it that year in 4:30 so a huge improvement time-wise. My goal was obviously to be anything sub 4 but as training had gone so well and my 1/2 time being at 1:39 I thought a time closer to 3:45 was doable.

    I decided a number of weeks ago to go out with the 3:40 pacers, but to not be clinging on for dear life - if it felt too fast I would slow down regardless of what mile number. The 3:40 pacers were about 30/40 meters ahead of me at start and I decided to keep them in sight without trying to catch them. I also decided not to check my mile times on watch, although sometimes I couldn't help myself. The first 7 miles flew by and couldn't believe when mile 11 sign came up, all signs were good. 1/2 way point on Crumlin rd felt tough though, it actually felt like my toes on left foot might spasm, but once we made the turn off Walkinstown r/bt I felt good again.
    After seeing lots of people I knew around Terenure, I started to feel my left leg tense up at Bushy park and made a conscious effort to slow down let the balloons go out of sight. I honestly thought I could "jog" my way from here, enjoy the crowds knowing I would be on for 3:4* By the mile 20 marker I felt like I was in trouble, although I was still doing sub 9 miles it felt very slow. I got through Roebuck without issue - the main challenge here was I was either passing people or being passed I was no longer in a group.
    In 2015, my sciatic nerve in the back of my left leg flared up at the exit ramp on the Stillorgan rd, apart from dramatically slowing up it made the last miles un-enjoyable. Unfortunately, same again this year. I had to stop at same spot and stretch which I did a further 2 times. I wasn't able to look at the supporters or enjoy the last few miles. I tried to adjust my gait to put less pressure on leg - God know what I looked like! I was just glad to get over that line.
    Looking back at my mile times it would appear that my pacing is quite erratic I'm usually very even, only 3 miles (mile 1, 3 & 14) over 8:24 pace in the first 18 miles. I never passed or fully caught up with balloons so this is a bit strange? Anyone else run with the 3:40s?
    Fab finish time and very proud to say I'm sub 4 marathon runner - at what cost though? And what next? I love distance running but I'm not sure where to go from here.

    FT 3:51:31
    Avg Pace 8:46
    10m 1:22:40
    20m 2:46:14

    Last 6.2m 1:04:36


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    duffer247 wrote: »
    Came in at 3:51 and very happy with time.
    I was one of the 2015 Novice group and completed it that year in 4:30 so a huge improvement time-wise. My goal was obviously to be anything sub 4 but as training had gone so well and my 1/2 time being at 1:39 I thought a time closer to 3:45 was doable.

    I decided a number of weeks ago to go out with the 3:40 pacers, but to not be clinging on for dear life - if it felt too fast I would slow down regardless of what mile number. The 3:40 pacers were about 30/40 meters ahead of me at start and I decided to keep them in sight without trying to catch them. I also decided not to check my mile times on watch, although sometimes I couldn't help myself. The first 7 miles flew by and couldn't believe when mile 11 sign came up, all signs were good. 1/2 way point on Crumlin rd felt tough though, it actually felt like my toes on left foot might spasm, but once we made the turn off Walkinstown r/bt I felt good again.
    After seeing lots of people I knew around Terenure, I started to feel my left leg tense up at Bushy park and made a conscious effort to slow down let the balloons go out of sight. I honestly thought I could "jog" my way from here, enjoy the crowds knowing I would be on for 3:4* By the mile 20 marker I felt like I was in trouble, although I was still doing sub 9 miles it felt very slow. I got through Roebuck without issue - the main challenge here was I was either passing people or being passed I was no longer in a group.
    In 2015, my sciatic nerve in the back of my left leg flared up at the exit ramp on the Stillorgan rd, apart from dramatically slowing up it made the last miles un-enjoyable. Unfortunately, same again this year. I had to stop at same spot and stretch which I did a further 2 times. I wasn't able to look at the supporters or enjoy the last few miles. I tried to adjust my gait to put less pressure on leg - God know what I looked like! I was just glad to get over that line.
    Looking back at my mile times it would appear that my pacing is quite erratic I'm usually very even, only 3 miles (mile 1, 3 & 14) over 8:24 pace in the first 18 miles. I never passed or fully caught up with balloons so this is a bit strange? Anyone else run with the 3:40s?
    Fab finish time and very proud to say I'm sub 4 marathon runner - at what cost though? And what next? I love distance running but I'm not sure where to go from here.

    FT 3:51:31
    Avg Pace 8:46
    10m 1:22:40
    20m 2:46:14

    Last 6.2m 1:04:36


    Well done!
    I ran behind the 3:40 pacers too. Kept them a few hundred metres in front of me until Crumlin which is where I started getting into difficulty. Was eventually overtaken by the 3:50 pacers with about 5 miles to go. The first half of your race is almost identical to mine but it sounds like you managed to push through a bit stronger than I did around Clonskeagh.
    FT was 3:57:01


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    smashiner wrote: »
    A big congrats to all of you that managed the Sub 4, great achievement, well done!!

    I didn't quite manage it this year myself, I felt strangely lethargic at the start of the race for some reason, I did the first 10K in 58 minutes, but it felt harder than it should have. I hit the HM point in 2:01, perfect pacing but again felt a bit 'meh', I pushed the pace a little as planned at mile 16 and caught back up with where I needed to be but knew that I was bluffing it a bit.

    I sensibly decided to back off a little after Mile 20 as I was starting to fade anyway. I ran the last 4-5 miles a bit slower but solid enough and finished a 4:07:52, a 10 minute PB on 2015, so I was happy with that. I probably could have done a 4:04/4:05 on the day if I didn't push between miles 16-20, but a part of me want to 'have a go at it' anyway, so no regrets anyway.

    Thanks again to RayCun and Murph_D and other mentors for the really useful tips on this thread.....I will probably be back next year to have another go...:cool:

    Hey Smash,

    That was me roaring as you went up the hill to Sth Circular. Great to see you have another go. Sorry you missed the target but great going.


  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Pink11


    Big congrats to you all.

    I was ill on the day and failed to get under 4. Will try again next year :(


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  • Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭DULLAHAN2


    Hey Guys Congrats to everyone that completed the marathon. I came in just under 4 hrs 3:59:21. I was cruising along until 30km. I cramped up badly the last 12 km wasn't pretty. I've signed up for next year already. The crowd were amazing much better than I taught they would be.

    My Marathon in Numbers:

    10km : 52:59
    Half way: 1:49:09
    30km: 2:38:38
    Finish: 3:59:21


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,338 ✭✭✭eyrie


    Hi all, congratulations to everyone here who ran DCM. Sorry to hear some had a tough day but there will be other days!

    I wrote a full report on my log but thought I'd post briefly here too since I got a lot of help on this thread. The day went really well for me and I finished in 3:55:26, better than I could have dreamed of really. The key takeaway for me was definitely starting really slowly, and staying pretty damn slow for the whole first half and up to Walkinstown. It worked well and I would definitely use the same approach if I do it again at any stage. I hit 10k in 59:22, my first half was 1:59:57, and the second was 1:55:29.



    It was an amazing day. Looking forward to doing some different stuff for the next few months though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭coogy


    eyrie wrote: »
    Hi all, congratulations to everyone here who ran DCM. Sorry to hear some had a tough day but there will be other days!

    I wrote a full report on my log but thought I'd post briefly here too since I got a lot of help on this thread. The day went really well for me and I finished in 3:55:26, better than I could have dreamed of really. The key takeaway for me was definitely starting really slowly, and staying pretty damn slow for the whole first half and up to Walkinstown. It worked well and I would definitely use the same approach if I do it again at any stage. I hit 10k in 59:22, my first half was 1:59:57, and the second was 1:55:29.



    It was an amazing day. Looking forward to doing some different stuff for the next few months though!


    Well done to you, great performance!! :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 723 ✭✭✭Pink11


    Thanks for sharing the sub 4 secrets guys. Delighted a fair few of ye nailed it. Seems the general consensus is to keep it nice and steady for first half. I had forgotten how bloody rough that first half is.


  • Registered Users Posts: 259 ✭✭duffer247


    Pink11 wrote: »
    Thanks for sharing the sub 4 secrets guys. Delighted a fair few of ye nailed it. Seems the general consensus is to keep it nice and steady for first half. I had forgotten how bloody rough that first half is.

    Sorry to hear you weren't well this time around but glad to read you have signed up again.

    I went out with 3:40s solely based on training going well and decent 1/2 marathon time, I do wonder if I had gone out with 3:50 or aimed for just under 4hrs now different it would been i.e. would I have avoided the discomfort of the last 4 miles.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    After toying with a sub 4 attempt I went out for 4:05 but came in way off the mark @ 4:27, a disappointing 10 min pb. Since Sunday I've got some useful feedback on what went wrong both online and offline and will live to fight another day but in the meantime i want to congratulate everyone here who achieved the milestone time and thank everyone for the useful info on the thread throughout the weeks and in the past few days also from those who detailed their experience on Sunday. Well done sub 4 marathon runners :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭smashiner


    aquinn wrote: »
    Hey Smash,

    That was me roaring as you went up the hill to Sth Circular. Great to see you have another go. Sorry you missed the target but great going.

    Ha ha, I THOUGHT that it was you aquinn :D

    I had my name on my top, so if someone shouted it out I didn't really know if they actually knew me. I was only when I heard 'Boards and Smash' in the same sentence, that I did an 'exorcist' and turned my head 180 Degrees to see you (while running up a hill in Kilmainham, a great feat of flexibility) . I think that you had your white and red Crusaders top on?? Fair play for coming our to support the 16,000+ lunatics that were out on the course.

    I am not too upset about not breaking the Sub 4 this year, it gives me something to do for next year. I was happy with how I ran the race, negative split tactics etc, had a good go at it and still didn't blow up into a 1,000 pieces and managed a 10 minute PB as well, so lots of positives in there.
    After my third DCM, I find that I learn something new every time, I will be up at the front with the Elites in a few years time....no bother..:eek:

    I too was a lemming in the past few days and signed up for next year......noooooo....what have I done! So hard not to when the course and crowds are so good.

    See, ya all next year on this thread where we put our bodies through the grinder in the name of 'fun'..........


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,088 ✭✭✭andrew1977


    I came home at 4.05, really pleased with it considering I had been inured with a calf injury and had only ran once in the 6 weeks leading up to the race, 10 miles in 6 weeks beforehand and I was very fearful of the calf giving up.

    The troublesome calf lasted fine, the other one went on mile 20:D
    A mixture of hobbling/walking/running/ stopping for spray of biofreeze /leg rub and I made it with a new PB by 1 minute.

    Have already signed up for next year, will give the sub 4 dream another crack then.

    Well done to all who made the sub 4 promised land !
    And to this thread contributors also, some great interesting reading and thoughts to plan for next year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,843 ✭✭✭Van.Bosch


    ariana` wrote: »
    After toying with a sub 4 attempt I went out for 4:05 but came in way off the mark @ 4:27, a disappointing 10 min pb. Since Sunday I've got some useful feedback on what went wrong both online and offline and will live to fight another day but in the meantime i want to congratulate everyone here who achieved the milestone time and thank everyone for the useful info on the thread throughout the weeks and in the past few days also from those who detailed their experience on Sunday. Well done sub 4 marathon runners :)

    I’ve been in this boat a few times - what do you think the issue was?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Van.Bosch wrote: »
    I’ve been in this boat a few times - what do you think the issue was?

    A combination of things but ultimately I don't think I was fresh on race day and that combined with self induced pressure to perform and I cracked.

    I raced a lot in May and June - i pb'd at 5km, 10k, HM and Parkrun during those two months and ran close to PB a few times also. The first week in July I did a further 2 races: i got a big course pb and 1km record in a 5km and did a tough 10 miler 3 days later both in very hot weather. I went on holidays for a week (ran a few times on hols) came back and launched straight into a 14 week marathon block which included another big HM PB.

    It's been said to me in the past few days that a 3-4 week break (only very easy running) in July followed by a shorter marathon cycle may have had me fresher on race day.

    However had this been said to me last July I doubt very much I'd have had the confidence to do it so it makes little difference now but it's food for thought for the future for sure. I guess it's where having a good coach is a real benefit.

    Maybe this will help someone else in the future to structure their year a bit better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭boardtc


    The weather & atmosphere were just sensational! My neighbour who experienced many NYC marathons advised me to write my name on my top which I did on the front & back with a black marker, the personalised cheering the whole way around was mind-blowing!

    My Half time from Tullamore in August was 1.47.58. So, I went with the custom pacing band for 3.58 from http://findmymarathon.com/pacebandresult.php?race=Dublin%20Marathon
    with a negative split pacing strategy of 3+%:
    2w3wefd.jpg

    The Paceband was absolutely awesome, I could not recommend it more.
    Here is how my plan worked out:
    2njlik7.jpg

    Jogged up all hills, found none hard. But the last 8k was brutal!

    Yes :mad: I think my body thought the 26mile arch was the end as I more or less seized up and shuffled the last 300m.

    I was straight on a drip for an hour and wrapped in ice as my temperature went up to 39.2 with hypothermia.

    Out of the tent at 3pm and it was time to go for pints! McGrattans & O'Donoghues's were bedlam!

    Thanks for all the advice here! So close. Still not so shabby!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,020 ✭✭✭Kellygirl


    boardtc wrote: »
    Yes :mad: I think my body thought the 26mile arch was the end as I more or less seized up and shuffled the last 300m.

    I was straight on a drip for an hour and wrapped in ice as my temperature went up to 39.2 with hypothermia.

    Out of the tent at 3pm and it was time to go for pints! McGrattans & O'Donoghues's were bedlam!


    Thanks for all the advice here! So close. Still not so shabby!

    :eek::eek:

    Drip for an hour and then the pub! Hardcore!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    ariana` wrote: »
    A combination of things but ultimately I don't think I was fresh on race day and that combined with self induced pressure to perform and I cracked.

    I raced a lot in May and June - i pb'd at 5km, 10k, HM and Parkrun during those two months and ran close to PB a few times also. The first week in July I did a further 2 races: i got a big course pb and 1km record in a 5km and did a tough 10 miler 3 days later both in very hot weather. I went on holidays for a week (ran a few times on hols) came back and launched straight into a 14 week marathon block which included another big HM PB.

    It's been said to me in the past few days that a 3-4 week break (only very easy running) in July followed by a shorter marathon cycle may have had me fresher on race day.

    However had this been said to me last July I doubt very much I'd have had the confidence to do it so it makes little difference now but it's food for thought for the future for sure. I guess it's where having a good coach is a real benefit.

    Maybe this will help someone else in the future to structure their year a bit better.

    What are your pr's for those other distances?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    ariana` wrote: »
    A combination of things but ultimately I don't think I was fresh on race day and that combined with self induced pressure to perform and I cracked.

    I raced a lot in May and June - i pb'd at 5km, 10k, HM and Parkrun during those two months and ran close to PB a few times also. The first week in July I did a further 2 races: i got a big course pb and 1km record in a 5km and did a tough 10 miler 3 days later both in very hot weather. I went on holidays for a week (ran a few times on hols) came back and launched straight into a 14 week marathon block which included another big HM PB.

    It's been said to me in the past few days that a 3-4 week break (only very easy running) in July followed by a shorter marathon cycle may have had me fresher on race day.

    However had this been said to me last July I doubt very much I'd have had the confidence to do it so it makes little difference now but it's food for thought for the future for sure. I guess it's where having a good coach is a real benefit.

    Maybe this will help someone else in the future to structure their year a bit better.

    What are your pr's for those other distances?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    ewc78 wrote: »
    What are your pr's for those other distances?
    5k - 23:33
    Park run - 23:42
    10k - 49:4x
    HM - 1:52

    Lots to work on before I try another marathon.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    ariana` wrote: »
    I raced a lot in May and June - i pb'd at 5km, 10k, HM and Parkrun during those two months and ran close to PB a few times also. The first week in July I did a further 2 races: i got a big course pb and 1km record in a 5km and did a tough 10 miler 3 days later both in very hot weather. I went on holidays for a week (ran a few times on hols) came back and launched straight into a 14 week marathon block which included another big HM PB.

    Sorry I hope you don't feel like I'm following you around Boards E but I think you should read that last paragraph back to yourself. I know you're disappointed with the DCM result but Jesus re-read that paragraph again..... Thats a year any of us would be proud of. I didn't realise (or had forgotten) you did so well in the lead up to the marathon block.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    ariana` wrote: »
    5k - 23:33
    Park run - 23:42
    10k - 49:4x
    HM - 1:52

    Lots to work on before I try another marathon.
    Going to start working on my 5km time in a few weeks (22:04 presently from about 3 years ago) and go from there.
    The general consensus on here seems to be a half time of 1:45 is needed for a sub 4hr
    Just wondered your times as I was also wondering is there a certain 5km or 10km needed for say a 1:45 half or sub 4hr Marathon.
    In two years the only races I've done are DCM 16 DCM 18 and the Dublin half this year, so the plan is to actually get an idea of where I am on other distances before training for DCM 19 starts. I've never done a 10km race for example so have no idea of my 10km time.
    As you say plenty to work on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    Sorry I hope you don't feel like I'm following you around Boards E but I think you should read that last paragraph back to yourself. I know you're disappointed with the DCM result but Jesus re-read that paragraph again..... Thats a year any of us would be proud of. I didn't realise (or had forgotten) you did so well in the lead up to the marathon block.

    I know I was reminded of this fact offline this week also and it did put some perspective on my performance in DCM. In 6-8 weeks i suppose we'll all be reviewing how the year went for us but I know in the grand scheme of things I have nothing to complain about. DCM was a lot to ask/expect of myself, I've PB'd at 6 distances this year - I'm more proud of some of those performances than others but it still shows solid improvement and numbers moving in the right direction across the board.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,287 ✭✭✭ariana`


    ewc78 wrote: »
    Going to start working on my 5km time in a few weeks (22:04 presently from about 3 years ago) and go from there.
    The general consensus on here seems to be a half time of 1:45 is needed for a sub 4hr
    Just wondered your times as I was also wondering is there a certain 5km or 10km needed for say a 1:45 half or sub 4hr Marathon.
    In two years the only races I've done are DCM 16 DCM 18 and the Dublin half this year, so the plan is to actually get an idea of where I am on other distances before training for DCM 19 starts. I've never done a 10km race for example so have no idea of my 10km time.
    As you say plenty to work on.

    Ya my HM was 1:52 and ultimately that's why I decided on 4:05, I think 1:46/1:47 is where I'd like to be if I am ever to target sub 4.

    Oh you have been missing out - the shorter stuff is great fun haha! Mind you I've never really trained specifically for shorter distance's so I'm looking forward to that.

    Best of luck ewc78.


  • Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭Joleigh


    4.02 for me. A PB of 17 mins which I was delighted with. The race went really well for me. I made myself slow down several times in the first half and I defo felt it conserved energy and I felt good until mile 23 then determination got me through the last 3. I gave it everything in the last 3 but I couldn’t have possibly gone 2 mins faster. I wonder if I hadn’t taken it so easy in the first half would I have got sub 4, or would I have burned out and not even got 4.02. Who knows!! I’ve signed up for next year. Talking a few days off running because I haven’t had a break in a long time. Then I’ll concentrate on a faster 5k and aim for sub 4 next year 😀


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    Came home in 4:06 which is a 6 min PB. Ultimately I wanted sub 4 but happy with time and while training was good I have to admit it was a little less structured due to first child born in May this year. I got my long runs in but majority of other runs where shorter (fitting 5km in at lunch in work, 5 mile run home from work, park run). I prioritized getting good long runs done but could not get the middle distance runs done often. I would have liked to get some 8-10 mile runs in more often but didnt happen. I put more focus on getting some speed incorporated into shorter runs.

    Signed up for next year already. Plan for the winter/spring is to work more on Core and speed looking to improve my 5k/10k/HM times and aim to carry this base through to DCM next year. So more speed and tempo sessions over the winter to get my speed up.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 sca21


    It took me three attempts to get under 4. On my second attempt I was 3 minutes short. I remember in 2014 the 4 hour pacers passed me at roebuck hill and I swore I'd never run a marathon again. But you dust yourself down and go again. The shorter races are great confidence booster but what worked for me was adding marathon pace in my long runs. I also joined a club and did speed work which I ignored. All of this helped me achieve my sub 4 goal. Well done everyone, keep plugging away and enjoy it and you'll achieve your goals.


  • Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭boardtc


    I updated the Half marathon time and first marathon goal time threads with my times, see post #85

    It took me a while to figure out how to update it, if you want to add yours do this:
    [LIST=5]
    [*]Click on Quote to reply with quote
    [*]Remove [ QUOTE=....] at top
    [*]Remove [/ QUOTE] at end
    [*]Start a new line before [/TABLE] at the end
    [*]Enter in the following format: Name|HM place|HM time|Mcmillan prediction|1st marathon and what you did|Finish time|Comment
    [/LIST]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 319 ✭✭munsterbear


    Congrats on all the pb's. I'm hoping to do NYC in 2019, but that will be with friends so imagine pace will be more relaxed, so hoping to aim for another marathon in April/May and that's my A race to aim for sub 4hrs.

    Have a couple of marathons under my belt, but 4 hrs 12/14mins is my closest...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,398 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    ewc78 wrote: »
    Going to start working on my 5km time in a few weeks (22:04 presently from about 3 years ago) and go from there.
    The general consensus on here seems to be a half time of 1:45 is needed for a sub 4hr
    Just wondered your times as I was also wondering is there a certain 5km or 10km needed for say a 1:45 half or sub 4hr Marathon.
    In two years the only races I've done are DCM 16 DCM 18 and the Dublin half this year, so the plan is to actually get an idea of where I am on other distances before training for DCM 19 starts. I've never done a 10km race for example so have no idea of my 10km time.
    As you say plenty to work on.

    How far off 4 hrs at DCM this year, ewc?


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