Trevor Deely case - new witness

tdf7187 · 05-12-2019 2:43pm

Btw, and this might shock people, but some people are easily shocked....all of the nightclubs - and I don't even mean knocking shops posing as B&B's, or escort agencies posing as lap-dancing clubs, or lap-dancing clubs that are run by very dodgy people - I mean legitimate night clubs on Leeson Street in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s - paid protection money to various gangsters, mostly to Martin Cahill, the so-called "General".

tdf7187 · 05-12-2019 2:50pm

seamus wrote: »

Tbh, I think the "unfortunate encounter with the wrong people" theory has been around pretty as long as he's been missing.

Murder isn't a common or throwaway thing, even in gangland circles. When something happens, they do talk about it amongst themselves, they spread gossip and rumours. This comes back to the Gardai, so they get some kind of picture of what's happened.

The hard part is turning gossip into statements.

Genuinely wasn't aware that the theory had been around since day 1, but yeah, the cops would have numerous informants, some of whom talk bull**** in the hope of getting off another case, some of who are just delusional, some of who are genuine, etc. AGS would have people they are paying for info and plausible deniability. That's how a good police service works - and rightly so, in my view, though I would constructive criticisms of AGS also. I will save the constructive criticisms for the memoirs.

Stevieluvsye · 05-12-2019 2:50pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

Btw, and this might shock people, but some people are easily shocked....all of the nightclubs - and I don't even mean knocking shops posing as B&B's, or escort agencies posing as lap-dancing clubs, or lap-dancing clubs that are run by very dodgy people - I mean legitimate night clubs on Leeson Street in the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s - paid protection money to various gangsters, mostly to Martin Cahill, the so-called "General".

LOL

I'm guessing nobody will be shocked by that

Raconteuse · 05-12-2019 2:55pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

Yeah, just weird they couldn’t fix it so it went in “real time”. Especially considering how much they pushed that footage.

I don’t remember the “waiting” guy getting any mention other than ‘Trevor had a brief conversation with someone at the gate’. They never said that the guy waits at the door for a considerable length of time, looks to take a phone call, looks out on the footpath, ducks back in, Trevor passes and then the guy moves to follow him around where they appear to have words at the gate.

The guy then waits there for a bit, two bank workers arrive, one goes in, one waits and after they head off the guy eventually leaves. Was that not considered “suspicious” enough to look into?

No I thought that got focus all right. It's so blatantly suspicious: rocks up to the main BoI Asset Management gate at 3.05 and doesn't budge on a pissing night (with only the pillar to shelter him) until after 3.30 when he's talking on his phone, walks out onto the footpath, and immediately Trevor walks past. The man doesn't actually duck back.

The guards said they believed the man behind Trevor later on Haddington Road was the same guy, but he doesn't seem to be, going by build. Probably more to what the guards are saying.

What i don't understand is the mention of other bank workers coming and going. All I've seen is a still of the guy looking up from behind the gate a few minutes after Trevor went in, and two other guys standing behind him.

TwoMonthsOff · 05-12-2019 3:00pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

No I thought that got focus all right. It's so blatantly suspicious: rocks up to the main BoI Asset Management gate at 3.05 and doesn't budge on a pissing night (with only the pillar to shelter him) until after 3.30 when he's talking on his phone, walks out onto the footpath, and immediately Trevor walks past. The man doesn't actually duck back.

The guards said they believed the man behind Trevor later on Haddington Road was the same guy, but he doesn't seem to be, going by build. Probably more to what the guards are saying.

What i don't understand is the mention of other bank workers coming and going. All I've seen is a still of the guy looking up from behind the gate a few minutes after Trevor went in, and two other guys standing behind him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWX1owMUA6E

smelly sock · 05-12-2019 3:01pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

No I thought that got focus all right. It's so blatantly suspicious: rocks up to the main BoI Asset Management gate at 3.05 and doesn't budge on a pissing night (with only the pillar to shelter him) until after 3.30 when he's talking on his phone, walks out onto the footpath, and immediately Trevor walks past. The man doesn't actually duck back.

The guards said they believed the man behind Trevor later on Haddington Road was the same guy, but he doesn't seem to be, going by build. Probably more to what the guards are saying.

What i don't understand is the mention of other bank workers coming and going. All I've seen is a still of the guy looking up from behind the gate a few minutes after Trevor went in, and two other guys standing behind him.

Is it not more likely Trevor was trying to procure services and got into a row with gangs controlling such services?

Stevieluvsye · 05-12-2019 3:05pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

I'm guessing that some would, plenty of people live rather protected, incurious and, to me, and I don't mean this in a judgemental way, shallow existences. I know people in AA - and I'm a recovering alco - that never even went to pubs or nightclubs, they did all their drinking at home.

On the previous thread someone was shocked that Trevor went to Alaska for a holiday more or less on a whim. We all do spontaneous things - at least those of us that have any guts and balls and a spirit of adventure - when we're young, that's what life is about. And Trevor had a contact that got him a cheap flight, so, you know, why not? I'd have done the same, in the circs. I know plenty of people, some of them quite successful and wealthy, who did stranger things than that in their youth.

Ye wha.... talk about going off on a random tangent

TwoMonthsOff · 05-12-2019 3:09pm

He invited himself over to Alaska after being told by the friend in Alaska not to come.

Eircom_Sucks · 05-12-2019 3:11pm

am i the only one who doesn't care ????????????

hundreds go missing and never get the airtime this does

Raconteuse · 05-12-2019 3:13pm

Why use 12 question marks?

And no, you're not the only who doesn't care.

Stevieluvsye · 05-12-2019 3:14pm

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

am i the only one who doesn't care ????????????

hundreds go missing and never get the airtime this does

They are usually found though, dead or alive

The people currently still missing (legacy) do get air time around the time they went missing

Raconteuse · 05-12-2019 3:16pm

The amount of airtime a missing person case receives is a reflection of the amount of work the family and friends are putting into it. Trevor's loved ones have never stopped seeking the truth. And good on them.

Fr Tod Umptious · 05-12-2019 3:19pm

Eircom_Sucks wrote: »

am i the only one who doesn't care ????????????

hundreds go missing and never get the airtime this does

Your probably not the only one.

What makes the TD case so high profile is because his family made it high profile.

In the days after he went missing,(it was around lunchtime Monday that people realised he was missing) the family pounded the streets looking for info, they put up thousands of posters, they got the story in the media.

Apparently his brother left his family and his business in Mayo on the Tuesday to look for Trevor, and did not return for two months.

That's why this case gets the airtime, because the family make sure it gets the airtime.

TheW1zard · 05-12-2019 3:22pm

The three lads outside after he goes in. I thought two of these are his colleagues and 1 was the guy waiting around by the pillar.

EmmetSpiceland · 05-12-2019 3:25pm

smelly sock wrote: »

Is it not more likely Trevor was trying to procure services and got into a row with gangs controlling such services?

From what I believe, there was no evidence that he was into either drugs or hookers. The police didn’t think it was credible.

At the time, I remember reading that he was due to meet a man and a woman but that seems not to be the case now.

Anyone know anything about that?

KWAG2019 · 05-12-2019 3:27pm

seamus wrote: »

This is kind of aside, but an interesting note I heard this week is that in the Garda PULSE system, a crime is considered "solved", when a suspect(s) has been formally charged

On the face of it this seems silly. Until someone is found guilty, then a crime isn't solved. But from a statistical point of view, the Gardai can't operate on this basis or they'd have thousands of cases sitting open and "unsolved", even though the problem is that the person who did it wasn't found guilty.

So it seems rational that from the Gardai's point of view, the outcome of a court case is somewhat secondary. Their goal is to gather evidence and then form an opinion about who did it. It's the DPP's job to prove it.

So the Gardai are always going to say (internally) that someone did it, regardless of whether the person has been found guilty of a crime. They couldn't operate effectively otherwise.

I'll take your claim about PULSE at face value.

The Gardai can operate regardless of "statistical points of view". If it seems such an Everest then the system needs to be amended to offer options that mirror the legal and democratic realities:
Unsolved, Forwarded to DPP for decision, Court case pending, Solved and Closed or whatever legal phrase is needed. The point is well worth making that the police have a role as part of a wider system. Far from the Garda view you put forward being "rational" it seems much more a left over inadequacy from a previous era.

Saying something internally is very different from briefing a "friendly" media person that "we know it but can't prove it".

smelly sock · 05-12-2019 3:28pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

From what I believe, there was no evidence that he was into either drugs or hookers. The police didn’t think it was credible.

At the time, I remember reading that he was due to meet a man and a woman but that seems not to be the case now.

Anyone know anything about that?

Yeh just with that paticular area being renowned for hookers and kerb crawling and them saying he might have fell foul of a criminal gang. 2 and 2.

EmmetSpiceland · 05-12-2019 3:31pm

TheW1zard wrote: »

The three lads outside after he goes in. I thought two of these are his colleagues and 1 was the guy waiting around by the pillar.

They are, one stays waiting while the other colleague goes in. The original suspicious guy stays by the gate.

Raconteuse · 05-12-2019 3:31pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Your probably not the only one.

What makes the TD case so high profile is because his family made it high profile.

In the days after he went missing,(it was around lunchtime Monday that people realised he was missing) the family pounded the streets looking for info, they put up thousands of posters, they got the story in the media.

Apparently his brother left his family and his business in Mayo on the Tuesday to look for Trevor, and did not return for two months.

That's why this case gets the airtime, because the family make sure it gets the airtime.

My brother lived and worked in the area at the time and he said you'd go to sleep at night seeing Trevor's face. Excellent work by those who loved him.

TheW1zard wrote: »

The three lads outside after he goes in. I thought two of these are his colleagues and 1 was the guy waiting around by the pillar.

Yeah that's what people have been saying mostly.

Why his colleagues though? Would they just stand around outside with a random stranger? I just wonder about it.

EmmetSpiceland · 05-12-2019 3:32pm

Raconteuse wrote: »

Yeah that's what people have been saying mostly.

Why his colleagues though? Would they just stand around outside with a random stranger? I just wonder about it.

I think they were interviewed. Don’t think they had much interaction with the guy waiting.

KWAG2019 · 05-12-2019 3:38pm

farmchoice wrote: »

if i recall correctly the other thread descended into crazy argument about things that were not true.
people were posting fairly out there theories and others were then discussing them as if they they were fact.

The thing is about mysteries like this if theories fit within the visible/available evidence no one is in a position to say what is true and what is fact. Quite simply no one knows. One theory is as valid as the next. If they fit within the available/visible evidence.

The police usually have more information than they are releasing and pages and pages of theories can be very wide of the mark to someone with more information.

tdf7187 · 05-12-2019 3:38pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

From what I believe, there was no evidence that he was into either drugs or hookers. The police didn’t think it was credible.

At the time, I remember reading that he was due to meet a man and a woman but that seems not to be the case now.

Anyone know anything about that?

No, don't remember reading anything on those lines. Are you sure you're not confusing with the couple who were seen on CCTV? A couple - man and a woman - were featured on the CCTV footage, they came forward IIRC.

tomwaits48 · 05-12-2019 3:40pm

there's still hookers around the area, had a charming offer there recently & most Monday mornings the pavement has a restocked supply of used jonnies lying around.

Day Lewin · 05-12-2019 3:43pm

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

From what I believe, there was no evidence that he was into either drugs or hookers. The police didn’t think it was credible.

At the time, I remember reading that he was due to meet a man and a woman but that seems not to be the case now.

Anyone know anything about that?

Several of his mates saw him talking with a girl at the nightclub.
Much later, on his way home, a girl followed in his footsteps, captured on CCTV, never identified.
One might wildly speculate that it was the same girl, who told him (and maybe others like him) where there would be a good party after the club ended. A touch of entrapment!
All pure speculation and guesswork: but at least, compatible with the few known facts.

Fr Tod Umptious · 05-12-2019 3:59pm

KWAG2019 wrote: »

The thing is about mysteries like this if theories fit within the visible/available evidence no one is in a position to say what is true and what is fact. Quite simply no one knows. One theory is as valid as the next. If they fit within the available/visible evidence.

The police usually have more information than they are releasing and pages and pages of theories can be very wide of the mark to someone with more information.

No it's not
Some are plausible, many are outlandish.

From memory two theories on the old there were that he was killed by a gang from Alaska because he had gone over to see that girl uninvited.
Another we as that the last sighting, Haddington Rd ATM, was not actually the last sighting and that he was actually seen a a pub in Donnybrook well know to serve after hours later in the night.

Personally the only plausible theory in my eyes is that unfortunately he went into the water either by himself or by accident.

Hector Savage · 05-12-2019 4:12pm

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

No it's not
Some are plausible, many are outlandish.

From memory two theories on the old there were that he was killed by a gang from Alaska because he had gone over to see that girl uninvited.
Another we as that the last sighting, Haddington Rd ATM, was not actually the last sighting and that he was actually seen a a pub in Donnybrook well know to serve after hours later in the night.

Personally the only plausible theory in my eyes is that unfortunately he went into the water either by himself or by accident.

If he ended up in the water is it possible to be washed out to sea and never found ? unlucky with the tides maybe ?

Im sure the Gards checked the tidal info for that night ...

smelly sock · 05-12-2019 4:14pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

If he ended up in the water is it possible to be washed out to sea and never found ? unlucky with the tides maybe ?

Im sure the Gards checked the tidal info for that night ...

Yeh it is. Look at that chap whooley ifentified in a welsh grave after 25 years.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 05-12-2019 4:21pm

Berserker5 wrote: »

'Sex not disclosed' means a female anyhow

And they mention that the reason that some people don't come forward until years later is that people die, etc etc which leads me to believe (rightly or wrongly) that the missus of someone involved in the murder and who has recently died only now feels they can come forward with the info without fear of reprisal from that person.

Fr Tod Umptious · 05-12-2019 4:23pm

Hector Savage wrote: »

If he ended up in the water is it possible to be washed out to sea and never found ? unlucky with the tides maybe ?

Im sure the Gards checked the tidal info for that night ...

Just this week came confirmation that a unidentified buried body washed up in Wales over 30 years ago was that of a missing Irish man.

Also a few years ago another unidentified body in Wales was that of a Wexford lady last seen walking her dogs on the beach in the early '90s

It happens.

Stevieluvsye · 05-12-2019 4:25pm

Excuse my ignorance here, but if he went in the Canal would a body be capable of reaching the sea? What with the locks? I could be totally wrong though.

Trevor Deely case - new witness

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