what is the burning passion for having an open fire?

gozunda wrote: »

Have to cock an eye at the politicians and this latest stunt. The fact is that Irelands air quality remains within EU air guidelines - yet we are being told that we have to ban the burning of all solid fuels and that there's no difference between smokey coal and well dried wood. One word - and thats 'bolloxs'. Well dried wood doesn't come within an ases roar of coal with regard to particulates and other emissions. Plus any emissions are highly dependant on how fuel is burned ie stove versus open fire or even modern stove with secondary burning versus old style stove. Even Sweden - that bastion of environmental purity hasn't tried to pull a stunt like this. Fair fuks to the Irish government for trying to shift everyone once again eh...

Suffice to say the latest comudgins from the government is to push the populace into using highly taxed and controlled heating such as gas and electricity and for wood and turf ( which may or may not have been taxed) to be ditched. Nothing like milking the old financial livestock for a bit more revenue whilst tapping into the current ennui and guilt over global warming ...

I dont get this about burning wood is clean to burn - back in the day when you could have bonfires in your back garden and you put wood on it if the wind was blowing a certain way and you got a gobfull of smoke from the burning wood it would make you cough and splutter and give you a burning chest feeling and you would have to get away and get a few big gulps of fresh air .

what will the difference be of burning wood in a fireplace, and it coming out of a chimney and it laying low in the air when foggy or misty instead of dispersing into the sky as opposed to burning it in your back garden? - it would be the same wouldnt it?

Graces7 wrote: »

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That happens often not because of what folk are burning but because people seal their homes against drafts so well there is no oxygen/air coming in. They seal off ventilation panels, put draftproofing round doors and windows. Many casualties every year.

you can afford to do that if you have an outside boiler - takes fresh air in through cabinet of boiler and expels it through the flue of the boiler. the air doesnt even have to enter the house so you can safely insulate it to buggéry to save heating bills. no chimney for all your heat to escape up when the fire is not lit

talking of which I was in Woodies Diy the other week and say the inflatable chimney balloons you can put up the chimney if anyone does decide to give up the fireplace and just use their gas or oil central heating. Pretty good idea, when you want to use the fireplace again, just deflate the chimney balloon. best of both worlds.

I have seen automatic and manual chimney top caps as well in some other place, cannot think where now. The manual one has a metal chain that comes down into the fireplace and you pull that and tie it up on a hook and it closes the top of the chimney pot with a lid (still has a tiny bit of space to let air flow into chimney stack to stop it smelling & dampness) and then the automatic one has some kind of thermal sensor and hydraulically closes the lid if there is no heat , and opens it up if it detects heat. Maybe they are not sold any more because you imagine if they mal functioned and closed while you still had the fire lit! :eek:

cjmc wrote: »

All the eco-warriors giving out about open fires and going home to their oil heated houses haven't a leg to stand on.
Burning mature wood is at least carbon neutral.
A reforestation programme to replace or increase native trees would be money well spent.
Coal on the other hand should be banned.
Until we can have carbon neutral electricity from solar or hydro even electric heating isn't the answer

I'd say those who can afford it should look into getting some solar panels on the ol roof - I know we dont have blistering sun ever here in Ireland , even in the summer, but modern solar panels are supposed to be really efficient still now , even on cloudy days - no, i wouldnt say it would mean you wouldnt have to use the oil central heating at all ever again but as a 'supplement' it sounds good to me, even if its only enough to heat up the domestic hot water its something , and that little less oil you have to use so thats a good thing.

I think what puts a lot of people off with solar is when they are told "in x amount of years they will pay for themselves and you will see the benifit" - it more than likely puts people off because they might want to see benefits in a few months say and paid back in that shorter time instead - it would me.

I dont know much about these heat pump things at all when I hear people go on about them, I shall have to do a bit of research on them.

Discodog wrote: »

I have a small stove burning a high quality smokeless fuel. Easy to light, no smoke, no soot & really economical.

smokeless coal is it?

BIGT4464 wrote: »

The very recent new builds near me have no chimney. Its the way to go.

when you think of all the other benefits apart fromheat getting wasted going up the chimney or air coming down the chimney into the house it does make sense on modern builds.

With chimneys you can get leaks around the flashing, the plaster render can fall off the stack and needs painting when house gets a lick of paint, they look 'old fashioned' on a modern house, there is no risk of a chimney fire if you havent got a chimney, the modern heating is so hot and efficient now there is no need for a chimney/fireplace , take away a chimney & fireplace and the room(s) inside the house can be made bigger and space in the room not taken up with imposing chimney and fireplace

air wrote: »

OK, I had a look at that website and it pulls the data (badly, lots of gaps) from EPA monitoring stations.
The data is available directly from the EPA website with much better quality.
Here is the one for Bray which you selected.

A good summary of the state of play is the 2018 report on air quality in Ireland.

A few highlights:

What are the main sources of PM in Ireland?
In Ireland the main source – especially of the smaller and more dangerous PM2.5 particles – is solid fuel burning for home heating.
Fairly clear cut I think.

This PM air pollution is then breathed in and leads to the health effects described in section 1. This direct link between solid fuel burning in Ireland and PM has been established both by EPA monitoring and EPA‐funded research projects such as the SAPPHIRE project and AEROSOURCE project.
So no pet projects at play here.

Under the PM2.5 heading
The WHO air quality guideline daily limit value was exceeded at 17 monitoring stations for a total of 103 days.

Modelling of PM2.5 Concentrations in Dublin
It clearly indicates that we are above the WHO guideline values for PM2.5 across the urban area of Dublin


What can be done?
Ultimately, the best way to reduce PM in Ireland is to move to cleaner ways of heating our homes. This will dramatically reduce our PM levels in ambient air in Ireland, leading to much improved health outcomes for people. This is particularly important for at‐risk individuals, such as young children and those with breathing problems.

I could go on but probably to read the report directly. It's well written in plain English and has good infographics etc.

So our taxes are going to fund the EPA and they are saying that we need to eliminate solid fuel burning in order to improve public health.
We are all part of this public whose health is impacted!

Does anyone have a realistic argument against a ban?

blimey there is not even an EPA station in Sligo and its one of the sites where there really needs to be one!

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Provided the ventilation is up to scratch. I have a fireplace but i don't light the fire, so recently i put one of those balloons up the chimney to block it, thinking it would save a few bob on the heating. Getting the decorations down from the attic for Christmas and there's water dripping from the underside of the roofing felt, roof joists are soaking wet in places.

The only change in the house is the balloon, the attic is very well insulated (and i thought well ventilated) never had any problem with condensation up there until now.

hmm thats interesting. - very well ventilated is it? . and its the breathable felt is it underside the roof tiles? - how about the ceilings themselves , is there good lagging of at least about 6" getting up above the ceilings? - could it be that warm air is getting past the ceilings up into the colder loft now which would have been warm with the fire going and heat going up the chimney stack into the loft?

also , dont be duped that its wet like that all the time up there. I have had it where I have seen some droplets of water on the felt and wood when I have gone to get the xmas decs down from loft and all it has been is just that the hot air from the landing has gone up into the loft because I have had the loft door open whilst I have been getting the decs down and the heat has got up into the freezing cold loft (which it should be) whilst I have had to loft door open and formed condensation on the felt and wood and joists because the loft door is open

Calhoun wrote: »

If we want to change behaviors the government needs to invest in it and make it easy for people to do so.

Solar panels/PV cells are expensive enough particularly for older people.

As far as heat recovery is concerned there is a significant outlay and your looking at least 10-15K depending on the size of the house.

People are put off by cost, I say this as someone who has PV cells on the roof, underfloor heating and a house that is near passive.

this taking into account that older people and pensioners are poor and cannot afford to turn their heating on or get solar panels or afford to insulate their houses - when in fact there are an awful lot that arent poor! - and would be a drop in the ocean for some . that makes me sound age'ist .. I'm not , but there are an awful lot of plaumossers old people out there that would make you believe they are paupers and cannot afford to heat the house and when die are found with thousands in their bank accounts (or underneath their mattress!)

Graces7 wrote: »

Bye Andy ….

sorry graces7 not my intention to single out any particular citizen and didnt mean to personally offend but it does go on I read about it a lot of the time - maybe I shouldnt believe everything i read