Counselling and psychotherapy BScs and BAs

SuperRabbit · 23-01-2018 6:37pm #1

Hi guys,

I'm thinking of enrolling in a part time Counselling and Psychotherapy course and I wonder if anyone else has completed one of these "Level 8" 4 year part time courses offered by DBS and other private schools.

I find the wording of the career path quite confusing.. it says you will satisfy the academic criteria to work places... but it doesn't say what the other criteria will be. On completion of this course can someone work with the HSE, for example? Or are there more hoops to jump through? How seriously are these degrees taken when it comes time to apply for a postgraduate qualification such as a masters?

I'm really excited by this, I've been looking for something like this for ages and ages and ages, it seems almost too good to be true. I didn't realize you could go straight into counselling as an undergraduate and I certainly didn't realize you could do it part time.

Thanks for any help you an give

dar100 · 24-01-2018 1:15pm

All undergrad counselling and psychotherapy courses are part time.

All of them (once accredited by QQI/university) will meet the criteria to apply post grad.

You will need to undertake 400 additional client hours after the course to become accredited with a counselling/psychotherapy body, to get work. Not a huge amount of jobs out there. This will incur additional costs for clinical supervision.

The field is not regulated either. If you are planning to go post grad you may meet the requirements for some of the 4 year masters in psychotherapy courses without doing the undergrad degree. Have you a previous degree in any area? or work experience/volunteering/ own personal counselling you can draw on?

SuperRabbit · 24-01-2018 6:43pm

dar100 wrote: »

All undergrad counselling and psychotherapy courses are part time.

All of them (once accredited by QQI/university) will meet the criteria to apply post grad.

1. You will need to undertake 400 additional client hours after the course to become accredited with a counselling/psychotherapy body, to get work.
2. Not a huge amount of jobs out there.
3. This will incur additional costs for clinical supervision.
4. The field is not regulated either. If you are planning to go post grad you may meet the requirements for some of the 4 year masters in psychotherapy courses without doing the undergrad degree. Have you a previous degree in any area? or work experience/volunteering/ own personal counselling you can draw on?

Thank you very much for your reply, I have numbered it so I can hopefully respond in a clear way.

1. Do the 400 hours take years to complete?
2. Are jobs hard to come-by for people who aren't accredited, or for everyone? I don't mind working for free to build up the hours because it would be rewarding, and I have a day job I can do part time to pay the bills.
3. Do each of the 400 hours need to be supervised, or just a portion of them? I assume the latter. I would also assume the cost is comparable to an hour of counselling, am I way off base?
4. I have a previous degree, but it is not in a relevant field. I'd really rather not skip the undergraduate. I wouldn't feel confident jumping into a post-graduate where you are expected to have a lot of background knowledge.

dar100 · 24-01-2018 7:03pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Thank you very much for your reply, I have numbered it so I can hopefully respond in a clear way.

1. Do the 400 hours take years to complete?
2. Are jobs hard to come-by for people who aren't accredited, or for everyone? I don't mind working for free to build up the hours because it would be rewarding, and I have a day job I can do part time to pay the bills.
3. Do each of the 400 hours need to be supervised, or just a portion of them? I assume the latter. I would also assume the cost is comparable to an hour of counselling, am I way off base?
4. I have a previous degree, but it is not in a relevant field. I'd really rather not skip the undergraduate. I wouldn't feel confident jumping into a post-graduate where you are expected to have a lot of background knowledge.

You can't do the hours within two years, has to take longer

Supervision is usually 1/8 depending on body you want to go with

No work while not accredited. However, a person with no degree or education can set up as a counsellor.

It's a transferable degree so people often work in case worker roles without having done the 400 hours

I'd urge you to do the 4 year masters you won't miss anything you'll study same at higher level

There's been talk of regulation for some time now, whether or no it happen is another story . However they are stating an undergrad degree can only use the term counsellor, 4 year masters to use psychotherapist

SuperRabbit · 24-01-2018 7:09pm

dar100 wrote: »

You can't do the hours within two years, has to take longer

Supervision is usually 1/8 depending on body you want to go with

No work while not accredited. However, a person with no degree or education can set up as a counsellor.

It's a transferable degree so people often work in case worker roles without having done the 400 hours

I'd urge you to do the 4 year masters you won't miss anything you'll study same at higher level

What masters programme would you recommend? The ones I see in a quck google search say things like "surrounds intestines counteracts infection, and absorbs fats" ... ha ha ha.. sorry.. that's what a GALT does... Too funny not to leave that in "Applicants are normally expected to hold a minimum of a second class honours degree (2.2) at Level 8,or its equivalent in a related discipline."

I am more than happy to study extra hard to get the masters, as long as the resources and support are available to me, someone who doesn't have a related undergraduate and is starting more or less from from scratch. A masters would also be more affordable.

Edit: I've looked at 6 different MAs now and they all want a relevant undergraduate, some even want you to already be an accredited counsellor with lots of experience. I don't want to say what my undergraduate is in, but it is basically basket weaving... I mean literally, basket weaving was an element of it. They do all seem to accept the BAs though, but most demanding professional experience on top of that. It might not be easy to get professional experience without an MA but there are lots of CPDs I could do, and I'm already qualified for the Art Therapy MA if I want to move to Cork, because of my basket weaving

... I don't want to move though, and I wouldn't want to do Art Therapy in a vacuum without counselling as well. It just seems like you could open a can of worms and then the person is left standing there, covered in paint, without a lifeline.

dar100 · 24-01-2018 8:06pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

What masters programme would you recommend? The ones I see in a quck google search say things like "surrounds intestines counteracts infection, and absorbs fats" ... ha ha ha.. sorry.. that's what a GALT does... Too funny not to leave that in "Applicants are normally expected to hold a minimum of a second class honours degree (2.2) at Level 8,or its equivalent in a related discipline."

I am more than happy to study extra hard to get the masters, as long as the resources and support are available to me, someone who doesn't have a related undergraduate and is starting more or less from from scratch. A masters would also be more affordable.

Edit: I've looked at 6 different MAs now and they all want a relevant undergraduate, some even want you to already be an accredited counsellor with lots of experience. I don't want to say what my undergraduate is in, but it is basically basket weaving... I mean literally, basket weaving was an element of it. They do all seem to accept the BAs though, but most demanding professional experience on top of that. It might not be easy to get professional experience without an MA but there are lots of CPDs I could do, and I'm already qualified for the Art Therapy MA if I want to move to Cork, because of my basket weaving ... I don't want to move though, and I wouldn't want to do Art Therapy in a vacuum without counselling as well. It just seems like you could open a can of worms and then the person is left standing there, covered in paint, without a lifeline.

http://dctc.ie/training/msc-counselling-psychotherapy/ No degree needed, as a mature candidate

I'd also recommend this masters it's a really good one

SuperRabbit · 24-01-2018 8:35pm

dar100 wrote: »

http://dctc.ie/training/msc-counselling-psychotherapy/ No degree needed, as a mature candidate

I'd also recommend this masters it's a really good one

Thank you! It looks like it is very similar but with a much higher level qualification at the end of it.

"Successful completion of the programme will lead to the University of Northampton award of MSc Counselling and Psychotherapy (180 credits) or an intermediate award of Postgraduate Diploma in Counselling and Psychotherapy (120 credits)."

So that's a level 9 MSC or a level 8, depending on the workload you can manage, I'm guessing? It says "immediate award Postgraduate Diploma in Counselling & Psychotherapy" . Immediate? What about the MSc? Sorry if this is all obvious, I've been out of academia for a while.

They don't say if they are focused on a particular methodology?

"Mature Student Option - the programme is open to applicants who do not have a primary degree but whose life / work / training / personal development experiences are deemed relevant to counselling and psychotherapy training." This sounds promising.

Aw gee: 1st Year Fee: €5,700 (this fee remains the same for each year of the course).

€22,800.. not without a scholarship or.. if rent in Dublin wasn't so high.

http://ichas.ie/courses/m-cognitive-behavioural-therapy/ < This MA is 8,800 in total . So it's 14,000 cheaper. The BA only costs about 16,000 in total, so I could have a BA plus a masters in an specialization of my choice for just 2000 more (as prices stand now, in 2018)

dar100 · 24-01-2018 9:11pm

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Thank you! It looks like it is very similar but with a much higher level qualification at the end of it.

"Successful completion of the programme will lead to the University of Northampton award of MSc Counselling and Psychotherapy (180 credits) or an intermediate award of Postgraduate Diploma in Counselling and Psychotherapy (120 credits)."

So that's a level 9 MSC or a level 8, depending on the workload you can manage, I'm guessing? It says "immediate award Postgraduate Diploma in Counselling & Psychotherapy" . Immediate? What about the MSc? Sorry if this is all obvious, I've been out of academia for a while.

They don't say if they are focused on a particular methodology?

"Mature Student Option - the programme is open to applicants who do not have a primary degree but whose life / work / training / personal development experiences are deemed relevant to counselling and psychotherapy training." This sounds promising.

Aw gee: 1st Year Fee: €5,700 (this fee remains the same for each year of the course).

€22,800.. not without a scholarship or.. if rent in Dublin wasn't so high.

http://ichas.ie/courses/m-cognitive-behavioural-therapy/ < This MA is 8,800 in total . So it's 14,000 cheaper. The BA only costs about 16,000 in total, so I could have a BA plus a masters in an specialization of my choice for just 2000 more (as prices stand now, in 2018)

You may find it very difficult to get placements, accreditation and ultimately work with the ICHAS one.

You can claim fees back through revenue, you'll get about 1,000 back a year on 5,000 fees.

Post grad dip is level 9 diploma, the thesis will bring you up to masters

SuperRabbit · 24-01-2018 9:22pm

dar100 wrote: »

You may find it very difficult to get placements, accreditation and ultimately work with the ICHAS one.

You can claim fees back through revenue, you'll get about 1,000 back a year on 5,000 fees.

Post grad dip is level 9 diploma, the thesis will bring you up to masters

That's assuming I'll have earned enough in the year to have paid 1000 in taxes though, right?

It does sound good, I can do more research and apply to both. I can always apply for a loan.

SuperRabbit · 24-01-2018 11:11pm

I looked at the maths and I think I could afford a Masters.. just about!

Turning Point MSc also accept applications without any level 8 degree (mine is level 7) but there's a 300 application fee, I'd want to be fair sure I had a good chance!

If anyone knows any other masters programs like this, especially if they involve a bit of CBT, please share

Edit: oh... they have a requirement of 40 personal therapy hours a year. That's about 2000 extra euro a year, so 8,000 x 4 = 32,000 for an MA course... I can't afford that. That makes the decision for me.

owenlynch1310 · 28-07-2020 11:26am

Hey SuperRabbit did you make a decision in the end? I am looking at the dctc one also but looking for some advice from someone who has done the course? I think the turning point one looks great but it is too expensive for me at the moment.

CBear1993 · 30-07-2020 9:56am

Also interested to hear back from super rabbit.

For the people in the know here :

It seems like a long road - how many years are you talking before you actually could go “out on your own” and see people in a private setting or practice? The courses all seem to be 3-4 years, then the 2 years supervision people are talking about?

If you have a genuine interest in it, It looks attractive seeing all those therapists have an hourly rate of anything from €50-100 per hour(and more), but I’m sure there are a lot of deductions to this, and a cap on the amount of people you can see or hours you can do per week.

It’s a long road and seems to be highly regulated?

Also note that one poster above said jobs aren’t that plentiful in it.... why? From past experience and friends experience, you literally cannot get a slot with counselors / psychotherapists/ psychologists for anxiety/ stress etc as they’re always so busy.
With the way our world is now I would envisage the demand is only going to grow more. ?
Is there any demand on you working for HSE/ public body or can you go straight into seeing private clients once supervision is completed?

SuperRabbit · 31-07-2020 3:29pm

Supervision is forever, not two years. Once you start counselling you will always need to see a supervisor, even if you stop counselling for a year and travel the world on a sailboat, you will need to see your supervisor at least once a month. It's quite an expense to take into account when you think of the 50 euro that you'll probably be able charge per hour.

The expense of supervision means volunteering is very expensive and I wish the government would do something to make it possible to work for free as a counsellor without it costing you money.. I'm going off topic... but it does **** me off because it's not fair and it excludes a lot of people from ever being able to do this job.

You could be fully accredited 6 years after starting your degree, but you could theoretically start in private practice after you graduate if you wanted.

Afaik at the moment you can't work for the HSE as a counsellor, they want counselling psychologists.

" It looks attractive seeing all those therapists have an hourly rate of anything from €50-100"

Pessimistically:
€50
- transport
45
- room rental (Dublin)
25
- supervision 1:8 (and considering there are lots of no shows and cancellations)
15

Of course all those figures could be different, you could get a good deal on supervision and room rental, you might be able to walk to your therapy room etc.

There's no cap on the hours you work but It's very hard to work lots of hours in this. Clients can tell when you have compassion fatigue, they can tell when you have so many clients you can't remember the details of each one, they can tell when you are so tired you are mindlessly using skills. So counsellors seem to figure out what their own personal cap is before they get burnt out and can't do the job properly and they limit themselves to that number of hours, and if that doesn't pay the bills they get a second job doing something else.

We were told again and again on the certificate not to go into this for the money, because we'd be disappointed. And some tutors seemed to scoff that we would be worried about money at all, so clearly they had a lot of financial security to begin with.

I know someone on the Turning Point one and they randomly jacked the price up substantially between year 3 and year 4 when it was too late for anyone to do anything about it other than drop out. They also didn't tell the full price per year until the course interview ("low ball", marketing technique), so it looks cheaper online than it actually is. I haven't heard of anything like that from any other college.

CBear1993 · 05-08-2020 9:50am

So in reality, you’re left with not much at all, unless you own your own practice and have your own facilities etc?

SuperRabbit · 07-08-2020 5:45pm

I hope someone who is practising will come along and paint a rosier picture

Plus some day you can be the supervisor, I think you need 5 years post-accreditation experience + another course, something like that.

The Witches Cat · 05-01-2021 11:48pm

https://ichas.ie/course/b-counselling-skills-psychotherapy-studies/#1561038318198-6e904f52-5dc3
Looking at doing this course. Any thoughts much appreciated

SuperRabbit · 06-01-2021 2:21pm

i'm not sure if this has been said in the thread already but I don't know why ICHAS haven't attempted to be accredited with IACP, their masters qualifications aren't accredited with IAHIP or a university either

also, that's a level 7 course whereas DBS, PCI and IICP are offering level 8 (honours degree).. will CORU be accepting level 7 degrees? (ordinary level degrees)

Accreditation (this is from memory i might get a detail wrong)

DBS: IACP for degree, IAHIP for masters
PCI: IACP and Middlesex University for degree and masters
IICP: IACP for degree and masters
ICHAS: No accreditation.. well, ok, QQI.. but like.. QQI also accredit everything from massage to mathematics it's not an accreditation from a body related to counselling

Dar mentioned that it might be harder with ICHAS to get a placement, it's harder for everyone to get a placement with covid but in 2 years hopefully that won't be an issue anymore. There was someone from ICHAS on my placement... there are loads of placements in my area in non-covid times though, if you are living in an area with very few potential placements it might be a factor?

The Witches Cat · 07-01-2021 12:41am

SuperRabbit wrote: »

i'm not sure if this has been said in the thread already but I don't know why ICHAS haven't attempted to be accredited with IACP, their masters qualifications aren't accredited with IAHIP or a university either

also, that's a level 7 course whereas DBS, PCI and IICP are offering level 8 (honours degree).. will CORU be accepting level 7 degrees? (ordinary level degrees)

Accreditation (this is from memory i might get a detail wrong)

DBS: IACP for degree, IAHIP for masters
PCI: IACP and Middlesex University for degree and masters
IICP: IACP for degree and masters
ICHAS: No accreditation.. well, ok, QQI.. but like.. QQI also accredit everything from massage to mathematics it's not an accreditation from a body related to counselling

Dar mentioned that it might be harder with ICHAS to get a placement, it's harder for everyone to get a placement with covid but in 2 years hopefully that won't be an issue anymore. There was someone from ICHAS on my placement... there are loads of placements in my area in non-covid times though, if you are living in an area with very few potential placements it might be a factor?

Hi. Thanks for the info. The course i said im doing would be leading to this course https://ichas.ie/course/b-a-hons-in-counselling-psychotherapy-with-addiction-studies/
From what i see they are recognized by IAAAC, NAPCP and APCP.

SuperRabbit · 07-01-2021 1:01am

Ah ok! What draws you to the ICHAS one?

The Witches Cat · 07-01-2021 1:16am

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Ah ok! What draws you to the ICHAS one?

It just seemed pretty straight forward to me. But after reading this thread it has thrown me completely with all this accreditation talk. The way i looked at it was, there is no regulation in force yet so what difference does it make about who accredits the course. Im kinda thinking when regulation comes in they are not going to say to someone who has done say the ICHAS course "sorry buddy, that was a wasted 4 years and you aint got no qualification".
And what authority do IACP OR IAHIP have at the moment compared to some other body? Again Im thinking none because there is no regulation yet. I know CORU are the ones with final say but until they do i don't see why people are ruling out certain course. What do ya think?

The Witches Cat · 07-01-2021 1:30am

SuperRabbit wrote: »

Ah ok! What draws you to the ICHAS one?

May i ask what course you did in the end??

SuperRabbit · 10-01-2021 12:33pm

The Witches Cat wrote: »

It just seemed pretty straight forward to me. But after reading this thread it has thrown me completely with all this accreditation talk. The way i looked at it was, there is no regulation in force yet so what difference does it make about who accredits the course. Im kinda thinking when regulation comes in they are not going to say to someone who has done say the ICHAS course "sorry buddy, that was a wasted 4 years and you aint got no qualification".
And what authority do IACP OR IAHIP have at the moment compared to some other body? Again Im thinking none because there is no regulation yet. I know CORU are the ones with final say but until they do i don't see why people are ruling out certain course. What do ya think?

I don't know, unless you work for them it's not very clear exactly. I know there are IAHIP and IACP people working with (for?) CORU, so that gives me confidence, but I don't know

I've heard third hand accounts of people being unhappy with ICHAS, mostly on this board and just one in real life, but I've only met one ICHAS student, briefly and she seemed happy with it

People here could be working for a competing college and not say anything ::D:Dwe don't know

I'm sure CORU won't say "sorry tough luck", different qualifications might have different grandfathering requirements, I don't think that's something to worry about as I'm sure CORU will mean some change and some extra work for absolutely everyone? Lot of uncertainty there

I'd figure out how serious to take those accreditation bodies by what the requirements to be accredited are, if it's very easy then I'd assume other stuff was wrong too. I only know IACP's requirements:

IACP ask for a level 8 degree from an accredited university, 50 hours personal therapy, 100 hours volunteer experience to be pre-accredited, which you start in second or third year, and 450 hours experience after that (which ends up being often volunteer too, or with just expenses covered). You also need a supervision ratio of 1:5 while starting out.
If you don't have a degree from an accredited university you can apply separately as an individual, I don't know what that involves

The best people to ask are teachers, but they are most likely contractually obliged not to give you the full picture. I wish they had a "glassdoor" page.

You have to do a foundation course anyway, right? So yeah maybe do the ICHAS certificate course and see if you like it and can see yourself with them for 4 years, and if not, use that course to apply to another college

Counselling and psychotherapy BScs and BAs

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