Obesity crisis in Ireland Mod Note post 1

Ariadne · 08-02-2019 2:40pm

Augeo wrote: »

Yeah, I've read loads on dieting and losing weight.
If you eat high volume, low calorie food you will feel full and still be in a calorie deficit.

1/2 kg of carrots has less calories than a Mcdonalds double cheese burger. You don't see many fat cnuts eating lots of carrots.

Yeah because who the fcuk wants to eat 1/2 kg of carrots, hmm I wonder which one I'd feel more satisfied after, a cheeseburger or a load of carrots :rolleyes:

08-02-2019 2:43pm

Succubus_ wrote: »

Yeah because who the fcuk wants to eat 1/2 kg of carrots, hmm I wonder which one I'd feel more satisfied after, a cheeseburger or a load of carrots :rolleyes:

Ah, here we go

Instead of folk looking at 400kcal options for meals, that will fill them and kill hunger they just fooook off and eat sh1t like a double cheeseburger.......classic fat cnut behaviour

Some spinnach, 2 tomatoes, a grated carrot and a tin of tuna with sriracha sauce will fill you more than a double cheeseburger and has less calories, again the fat cnuts who allegedly will be hungry for life in a calorie deficit won't be seen eating filling, nutritious, low calorie food.
they'll go for a snickers an hour after their feed of fastfood though, because they are hungry and there are peer reviewed books etc saying x,y & z.

Ariadne · 08-02-2019 2:47pm

Augeo wrote: »

Ah, here we go

Instead of folk looking at 400kcal options for meals, that will fill them and kill hunger they just fooook off and eat sh1t like a double cheeseburger.......classic fat cnut behaviour

Some spinnach, 2 tomatoes, a grated carrot and a tin of tuna with sriracha sauce will fill you more than a double cheeseburger and has less calories, again the fat cnuts who allegedly will be hungry for life in a calorie deficit won't be seen eating filling, nutritious, low calorie food.

I'd rather eat the cheeseburger and be a fat cnut. Life is too short

08-02-2019 2:48pm

Succubus_ wrote: »

I'd rather eat the cheeseburger and be a fat cnut. Life is too short

That's fine.
And there's millions like you, it's a choice, a preference, as you point out

And then...........obesity crisis

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 2:52pm

Augeo wrote: »

Yeah, I've read loads on dieting and losing weight.
If you eat high volume, low calorie food you will feel full and still be in a calorie deficit.

1/2 kg of carrots has less calories than a Mcdonalds double cheese burger. You don't see many fat cnuts eating lots of carrots.

Did you read any of the links provided on the topic in this thread on the changes in physiology of long-term obese people? (And note, obese doesn’t just mean the morbidly obese folks you see on the biggest loser. At my height, I’d be obese at the low 12 stones.) Because if you haven’t read them, you are in no position to call me a spoofer. You can if you want but there’s little substance behind it. This isn’t science woo I’m talking about.

And high volume, low calorie food - that doesn’t sound particularly great. Vegetables fall into that category but you need good quality calorie-dense foods too and calorie-dense foods in small portions can be more satiating than a lot of low calorie food. People trying to only eat low calorie stuff all the time often fall into the trap of eating crappy low-fat substitutes.

It is staggering easy to fit a good homemade cheeseburger into a healthy diet with tasty stuff in moderation. If you can’t figure out how to do that and keep a healthy weight, sucks to be you! The spinachy tuna thing you describe above wouldn’t fill me more and honestly, the calorie difference between the two wouldn’t be as much as you’d think.

08-02-2019 2:58pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Did you read any of the links provided on the topic in this thread on the changes in physiology of long-term obese people? (And note, obese doesn’t just mean the morbidly obese folks you see on the biggest loser. At my height, I’d be obese at the low 12 stones.) Because if you haven’t read them, you are in no position to call me a spoofer. You can if you want but there’s little substance behind it. This isn’t science woo I’m talking about.

And high volume, low calorie food - that doesn’t sound particularly great. Vegetables fall into that category but you need good quality calorie-dense foods too and calorie-dense foods in small portions can be more satiating than a lot of low calorie food. People trying to only eat low calorie stuff all the time often fall into the trap of eating crappy low-fat substitutes.

I was obese at 16.5 stone, went on an 800/900kcal per day deficit for 6 months and wasn't hungry. Lost 3 stone. Wasn't hungry. Balanced diet.......lots of veg and lean meat.

Obese folk have crap diets more often than not.

You're moving from them being forever hungry now to a changes in physiology of long-term obese people ...........big yawn.
I don't have to read specific links from this thread .......... there's 25 pages, I've not read it at.
Your views are that of a spoofer, you can be in a calorie deficit and not be forever hunger, you claim otherwise, that's spoof.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 3:01pm

Augeo wrote: »

I was obese at 16.5 stone, went on an 800/900kcal per day deficit for 6 months and wasn't hungry. Lost 3 stone. Wasn't hungry. Balanced diet.......lots of veg and lean meat.

Obese folk have crap diets more often than not.

Of course they do. Who on earth said otherwise? That how they got to the obese state. And if they stay that way long-term, it will likely cause physiological changes.

So... have you perused any of science behind people are saying here? (I haven’t been the only one after all). No straight answer on that. You said you’ve “read lots” on healthy-eating but that’s not what I asked you.

Old Rudge · 08-02-2019 3:03pm

Augeo wrote: »

I was obese at 16.5 stone, went on an 800/900kcal per day deficit for 6 months and wasn't hungry. Lost 3 stone. Wasn't hungry. Balanced diet.......lots of veg and lean meat.

Obese folk have crap diets more often than not.

You're moving from them being forever hungry now to a changes in physiology of long-term obese people ...........big yawn.

Arguing from the particular to the general is a common trait seen in idiots.

It worked for you it should work for everyone is that the extent of your rebuttal?

The honest clinicians working in obesity say its hopeless for the majority of long term obese people.

08-02-2019 3:04pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

...............
So... have you perused any of science behind people are saying here?..............

Provide one link to actual science.
I have a degree in it btw so I can decipher spoof/w@nkology from actual science quite quickly.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 3:06pm

Augeo wrote: »

I was obese at 16.5 stone, went on an 800/900kcal per day deficit for 6 months and wasn't hungry. Lost 3 stone. Wasn't hungry. Balanced diet.......lots of veg and lean meat.

Obese folk have crap diets more often than not.

You're moving from them being forever hungry now to a changes in physiology of long-term obese people ...........big yawn.
I don't have to read specific links from this thread .......... there's 25 pages, I've not read it at.
Your views are that of a spoofer, you can be in a calorie deficit and not be forever hunger, you claim otherwise, that's spoof.

Yup, as suspected.

You are no position to call me a spoofer. “I won’t read or even entertain the scientific stuff backing it up, therefore you are a spoofer”. Like I said, cohones. Well, at least you’ve admitted it.

Augeo wrote: »

Provide one link to actual science.
I have a degree in it btw so I can decipher spoof/w@nkology from actual science quite quickly.

Sure, I can and will. Oh and guess what? I also have a degree in biology discipline. Wanna have a qualifications pissing contest?

08-02-2019 3:07pm

Old Rudge wrote: »

Arguing from the particular to the general is a common trait seen in idiots.

It worked for you it should work for everyone is that the extent of your rebuttal?

The honest clinicians working in obesity say its hopeless for the majority of long term obese people.

That's not at all my point, but an idiot could think it was

I only mentioned my particular personal experience in response to the bolded piece.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

......... I’d be obese at the low 12 stones.) Because if you haven’t read them, you are in no position to call me a spoofer. You can if you want but there’s little substance behind it. This isn’t science woo I’m talking about...........

08-02-2019 3:08pm

Augeo wrote: »

Provide one link to actual science.
I have a degree in it btw so I can decipher spoof/w@nkology from actual science quite quickly.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Yup, as suspected. You are no position to call me a spoofer. “I won’t read or even entertain the scientific stuff backing it up, therefore you are a spoofer”. Like I said, cohones. Well, at least you’ve admitted it.

Link to the science there love and we'll see is it science or spoof.
I do appreciate some people class any ole sh1te as science as they lash into yet anopther snickers an hour after their chinese takeaway dinner and as they bask in the comfort that they'll be fat forever but not hungry

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 3:13pm

Augeo wrote: »

Link to the science there love and we'll see is it science or spoof.
I do appreciate some people class any ole sh1te as science as they lash into yet anopther snickers an hour after their chinese takeaway dinner and as they bask in the comfort that they'll be fat forever but not hungry

I will. It will take a few minutes. Resorting to patronising terms-of-endearment is a sign of a nerve hit.

Like I said, I also have a degree in a biological discipline. Qualifications pissing contest?

Oh and if there’s one person who is tedious, it’s the reformed whore. Keep that in mind.

Trump Is Right · 08-02-2019 3:14pm

Marvin Flabby Twinkle wrote: »

If I have porridge, bread or a scone for breakfast, that's it - hungrier than usual for the day, and way more sugar cravings.

Two eggs or an egg and a rasher - full until lunch, and only wanting tuna or boiled chicken with lots of salad.

Protein is the way forward.

What you are describing there, has almost as much fat content as protein...

Nothing inherently wrong with fat btw. But so many people seem to completely ignore the fat content when talking about certain protein rich foods.... Another one is nuts or nut butters.

They certainly will keep the hunger away, but most of your protein should ideally be coming from lean low fat sources. If all / most of your protein is coming from fatty sources... you will eventually gain weight or struggle to lose weight. Just my experience.

08-02-2019 3:15pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

I will. It will take a few minutes. Resorting to patronising terms-of-endearment is a sign of a nerve hit.

Like I said, I also have a degree in a biological discipline. Qualifications pissing contest?

Oh and if there’s one person who is tedious, it’s the reformed whore. Keep that in mind.

I've scanned the topic.............. all I see is a few links to the examiner and the dailt mail.

Where are all the science links you refer to, I thought I'd be spoilt for choice, I can't see any.

The ole reformed whore comment, I must be getting to you. Apologies. the love comment must have it a nerve. You're a tit for tat sort, haha.

SusieBlue · 08-02-2019 3:21pm

The issues surrounding obesity are complex and cannot be simplified into a "just eat less" solution.
If that was the solution, we would have no obesity crisis because everyone would just eat less and lose weight and no longer be overweight or obese.

Social, emotional and mental health issues contribute greatly to the obesity problem. Yes, for a small amount of people there is nothing wrong with them and they just like to overeat.
But the isn't the case for most people, especially those with long term weight issues.

For some it is an addiction, akin to smoking or taking drugs.
Everyone has a vice,be it reading, or running, or on the more extreme end, smoking weed/taking drugs. Something that relaxes them and makes them feel better when life is stressful or they're under pressure.
For some people, that vice is food.

In my own experience when my mental health took a nose dive about 2 years ago, my weight crept up because I used food as a crutch to reward myself.
Good day? Reward with food. Bad day? Reward with food. Feeling sad? Reward with food....You can see where I'm going with this.

The truth is, until I addressed why I was overeating and truly tried to completely change my lifestyle, I didn't have any success with losing that excess weight.
I tried and failed about 4/5 times until I was in the right head space to actually make any progress.

Advising people to "just eat less" and other offhand advice is as unhelpful as telling a drug addict to "just stop taking drugs".

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 4:20pm

Augeo wrote: »

Link to the science there love and we'll see is it science or spoof.
I do appreciate some people class any ole sh1te as science as they lash into yet anopther snickers an hour after their chinese takeaway dinner and as they bask in the comfort that they'll be fat forever but not hungry

Augeo wrote: »

I've scanned the topic.............. all I see is a few links to the examiner and the dailt mail.

Where are all the science links you refer to, I thought I'd be spoilt for choice, I can't see any.

The ole reformed whore comment, I must be getting to you. Apologies. the love comment must have it a nerve. You're a tit for tat sort, haha.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1105816 - a 2011 study in the New England Journal Of Medicine

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199503093321001 - this one acknowledges that there is no reliable way to sustain weight loss in obese in individuals and has stacks with references on the topic. Also the NEJM.

A study linked earlier in this thread: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/#__ffn_sectitle

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/567530/ - some very good stuff about metabolic set point here and the hormones involved. Plus other articles on the topic are referenced within.

I didn’t even have to try hard to find this material. How were you not able to find any journal articles on the topic? Anyone with the qualification you say you have would be able to do that easily.

As for the bolded part - I’m not overweight. And have little time for junk science.

Trump Is Right · 08-02-2019 4:20pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

Social, emotional and mental health issues contribute greatly to the obesity problem. Yes, for a small amount of people there is nothing wrong with them and they just like to overeat.
But the isn't the case for most people, especially those with long term weight issues.

I actually think it's the opposite way around for the majority of people...

The pounds slowly creep up... they don't nip it in the bud early (usually laziness or being too busy / distracted by work etc)... then they have a growing problem... excuse the pun... and this subsequently greatly affects their mental health.

And I think people then work backwards, in what seems to them like a logical manner, by identifying their current mental health problems as the likely cause of their weight gain! When in fact they have it backwards.

Food tastes great... that's the main reason many people overeat it. And also lack of exercise makes you tired... and eating more calories gives a temporary solution to this fatigue, by flooding your body with energy... this is another big reason for overeating.

And it is of course a very vicious circle.. the more overweight and unfit you become, the more your body demands calories and rest in order to feel better! (for a while)

I don't buy for a second, that obese people are stuffing their faces with food when they're not hungry because of psychological reasons... their bodies are giving them signals that they're hungry... and their brain is craving great tasting food... but EVERYONE'S brain craves great tasting food.

It's just too easy to blame mental health problems as the cause of overeating... it's the lazy excuse. Lots of people in society will pat you on the back for rolling out these excuses... but it's not much help to the person trying to lose weight!

08-02-2019 4:27pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1105816 - a 2011 study in the New England Journal Of Medicine

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199503093321001 - this one acknowledges that there is no reliable way to sustain weight loss in obese in individuals and has stacks with references on the topic. Also the NEJM.

A study linked earlier in this thread: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/#__ffn_sectitle

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/isrn/2012/567530/ - some very good stuff about metabolic set point here and the hormones involved. Plus other articles on the topic are referenced within.

I didn’t even have to try hard to find this material. How were you not able to find any journal articles on the topic? Anyone with the qualification you say you have would be able to do that easily.

As for the bolded part - I’m not overweight. And have little time for junk science.

Ah come ere, you suggested all that stuff was in the topic here.
It seems it's not.
And as I didn't go googling my qualification is in doubt now?
lol

I can post thousands of links to science that will clarify that a calorie deficit will result in weight loss

SusieBlue · 08-02-2019 4:30pm

Trump Is Right wrote: »

I actually think it's the opposite way around for the majority of people...

The pounds slowly creep up... they don't nip it in the bud early (usually laziness or being too busy / distracted by work etc)... then they have a growing problem... excuse the pun... and this subsequently greatly affects their mental health.

And I think people then work backwards, in what seems to them like a logical manner, by identifying their current mental health problems as the likely cause of their weight gain! When in fact they have it backwards.

Food tastes great... that's the main reason many people overeat it. And also lack of exercise makes you tired... and eating more calories gives a temporary solution to this fatigue, by flooding your body with energy... this is another big reason for overeating.

And it is of course a very vicious circle.. the more overweight and unfit you become, the more your body demands calories and rest in order to feel better! (for a while)

I don't buy for a second, that obese people are stuffing their faces with food when they're not hungry because of psychological reasons... their bodies are giving them signals that they're hungry... and their brain is craving great tasting food... but EVERYONE'S brain craves great tasting food.

It's just too easy to blame mental health problems as the cause of overeating... it's the lazy excuse. Lots of people in society will pat you on the back for rolling out these excuses... but it's not much help to the person trying to lose weight!

I think its lazier to entirely dismiss the notion that mental health issues is a huge contributor to obesity, in particular long term obesity.
You are over simplifying what is a very complex issue, with numerous factors at play.

If it were as easy as you say for everyone to lose weight, we wouldn't have an obesity crisis.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 4:38pm

Augeo wrote: »

Ah come ere, you suggested all that stuff was in the topic here.
It seems it's not.
And as I didn't go googling my qualification is in doubt now?
lol

I can post thousands of links to science that will clarify that a calorie deficit will result in weight loss

One of those articles was! I never said all. I can point you to the post that contains that journal article link if you really need to be spoonfed.

You asked me for scientific back-up. I provided it. It’s up to you if choose to ignore it. However, you can no longer call me a spoofer. Well, you can but you’d have nothing to back it up with.

You tried to make your viewpoint seem more credible by mentioning a qualification in a scientific field. You insinuated that I was going by woo science while stuffing my gob with Snickers. All kinds of mud-slinging. Why would anyone secure in their position need to resort to any of that?

Trump Is Right · 08-02-2019 4:42pm

SusieBlue wrote: »

I think its lazier to entirely dismiss the notion that mental health issues is a huge contributor to obesity, in particular long term obesity.
You are over simplifying what is a very complex issue, with numerous factors at play.

If it were as easy as you say for everyone to lose weight, we wouldn't have an obesity crisis.

Mental health issues can become a significant problem eventually... and they can exasperate an already bad situation... but IMO they are not usually the cause of overeating in the beginning.

And where did I say it was easy to lose weight?? It's actually incredibly difficult to lose weight... but this doesn't mean the reasons you gained it are hugely complex.

You are confusing two different things here. There can be very simple straight forward reasons why you start to gain weight initially... but that doesn't mean the solutions are easy or simple!

08-02-2019 4:45pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

One of those articles was! I never said all. I can point you to the post that contains that journal article link if you really need to be spoonfed.

You asked me for scientific back-up. I provided it. It’s up to you if choose to ignore it. However, you can no longer call me a spoofer. Well, you can but you’d have nothing to back it up with.

You tried to make your viewpoint seem more credible by mentioning a qualification in a scientific field. You insinuated that I was going by woo science while stuffing my gob with Snickers. All kinds of mud-slinging. Why would anyone secure in their position need to resort to any of that?

I'm now not secure in my position as I reckon fat cnuts who remain fat cnuts do so largely by choice.
Lolers.

All that twaddle you linked to is a tiny factor IMO, the main factor is the trolleys of pizza and chocolate etc consumed by fat cnuts.

"this one acknowledges that there is no reliable way to sustain weight loss in obese in individuals" if you ignore a calorie deficit etc etc exercise, not eating a calorie excess consistently etc etc

It also says "Physicians should be aware that for some obese patients the achievement of what is considered to be a more healthful body weight may be accompanied by metabolic alterations that make it difficult to maintain the lower weight. Nevertheless, the beneficial effect of even a modest weight loss on lipid and carbohydrate metabolism in obese patients40,41 justifies persistent efforts at weight reduction and maintenance of a reduced body weight for the treatment of obesity" ........... too many fat folk aren't interested in persistent efforts I reckon.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 4:54pm

Augeo wrote: »

I'm now not secure in my position as I reckon fat cnuts who remain fat cnuts do so largely by choice.
Lolers.

All that twaddle you linked to is a tiny factor IMO, the main factor is the trolleys of pizza and chocolate etc consumed by fat cnuts.

A small factor? Recidivism rates would suggest otherwise.

Tbh, I’m glad you’re posting in the manner quoted above. It doesn’t do you any favours. It makes you look like the ignorant one. I wouldn’t be bragging about your mad science skillz, if I were you!

But hey, knock yourself out.

08-02-2019 4:56pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

A small factor? Recidivism rates would suggest otherwise.

Tbh, I’m glad you’re posting in the manner quoted above. It doesn’t do you any favours. It makes you look like the ignorant one.

Knock yourself out.

It's after hours ffs.
Regarding Recidivism rates see waht I included above regarding persistent efforts, even the twaddle you link to that you are relying on actually says folk need to make persistent efforts to keep the weight off.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 08-02-2019 5:07pm

Augeo wrote: »

It's after hours ffs.
Regarding Recidivism rates see waht I included above regarding persistent efforts, even the twaddle you link to that you are relying on actually says folk need to make persistent efforts to keep the weight off.

Twaddle? How on earth could you have already ascertained that the papers are twaddle in such a short period of time? You couldn’t have. Anyone with a science qualification would know you can’t digest journal articles in the five minutes or so that you seem to be claiming. I wouldn’t be wielding that science qualification as a argument-winning tool, if I were you. It’s not working out so well for you.

Ariadne · 08-02-2019 5:09pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Twaddle? How on earth could you have already ascertained that the papers are twaddle in such a short period of time? You couldn’t have. Anyone with a science qualification would know you can’t digest journal articles in the five minutes or so that you seem to be claiming. I wouldn’t be wielding that science qualification as a argument-winning tool, if I were you. It’s not working out so well for you.

Calling people ''fat cnuts'' tells you all you really need to know about someone to be honest.

08-02-2019 5:14pm

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Twaddle? How on earth could you have already ascertained that the papers are twaddle in such a short period of time? You couldn’t have. Anyone with a science qualification would know you can’t digest journal articles in the five minutes or so that you seem to be claiming. I wouldn’t be wielding that science qualification as a argument-winning tool, if I were you. It’s not working out so well for you.

You are really clinging to that stick.
What are your views on the persistent efforts recommended?

08-02-2019 5:14pm

Succubus_ wrote: »

Calling people ''fat cnuts'' tells you all you really need to know about someone to be honest.

Indeed

Unearthly · 08-02-2019 7:04pm

I don't see how it's helpful at all to bait people with 'fat c'nts'

Augeo I like you from the football forum but I don't think you are fair here

You wouldn't say it to their face so why is it acceptable here?

Obesity crisis in Ireland Mod Note post 1

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