Ireland is now only 82% Native Irish.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 11:46am

batgoat wrote: »

vladmydad wrote: »

When nations lose their sense of identity, historically it’s a disaster. I truly fear that things will get very very ugly in Europe over the next 50 years.

Honestly you guys and your obsession with "native Irish" or "native British" is a tad sickening... It's a not so subtle of being racist. Your numbers aren't shocking or upsetting, we've become slightly more mixed in background. What's the harm?

It's also probably better for the nations genetics to actually variety in the nation rather than everyone having a background that doesn't exit the nation.

You can rave about unforeseen consequences but the reality is that it doesn't negatively affect us. Maybe go over to stormfront to have a proper discussion about it? They'll totally agree with you.

Your post sums up the malaise of Europeans. We’ve been browbeaten into believing the we’re the bad guys and our time is up. We’re witnessing the last days of Europe.

fryup · 15-12-2018 11:46am

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Ethnic Irish Travellers are as close as it gets and they are a tiny percentage of the population.

yep, they're true-blue irish and yet everyone hates them :cool: self loathing irish?

kneemos · 15-12-2018 11:46am

realitykeeper wrote: »

To me native Ireland is Irish speaking, Catholic and white so to me the native population is very small which is a pity but it is a fact I came to terms with long before Ireland pivoted from a country of mass emigration thirty years ago to immigration now.

The reason I am not inclined to bemoan these changes is that I feel it the Irish have given up on themselves in not reviving the language, in failing to get rid of the drink culture and in our failure to adopt a work centric culture. I feel secularism is a bad development and that has happened independently of immigration so there again the Irish have failed.

Being proud of being Irish is fine but when one is constantly disappointed, one tends to separate the chaff from the wheat or the good from the bad. I think where you have a people who are consistently doing the wrong thing, adopting the wrong attitudes and who have misplaced values, such a people are due a comeuppance. Elsewhere, there are countries with good people who have the right ideas and values. I think good people are leaving Ireland while people of questionable caliber remain. As for the immigrants, I think the checks and balances are flimsy at best but what else would you expect from the Irish.

What a Rosy picture you have of old Ireland.
The truth is a history of mass migration,poverty,sweeping problems under the carpet, corruption and an inability to govern ourselves effectively.

It really wasn't better in the good old days,it was a miserable ****hole.

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 11:48am

y0ssar1an22 wrote: »

what are your belief on the matter do you mind sharing?

I think I've made it clear that the point raised is in the OP is moot because we are all a mishmash of societies/cultures/nationalities(these change with border changes).

Diceicle · 15-12-2018 11:48am

_Brian wrote: »

I don’t care who comes and goes as long as they are decent people and contribute to society.
We have an awful problem with “Irish natives” who sponge, sponge, sponge and have done for generations, they pop out kids at a savage rate and so the cycle goes on. This needs to be addressed before we worry about housing poor unfortunates coming from active war zones with their families.

I would love to see a swifter asylum process where decisions were made quickly and those proven to be genuine cases given permits to work and those not making the cut sent immediately back to their point of origin.

Agree with much of the above, unfortunately, we are also adding too high a percentage of low-skill Africans to our talent pool (https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1107/1009164-esri_migrants/) while at the same time not changing the asylum system to remove those who do not meet the criteria.

recedite · 15-12-2018 11:49am

blindjustice wrote: »

Do people care how low that % gets? Would it matter if there was a hypothetical surge in people moving over, say the UN migration pact actually ends up being implemented as its written, would it matter to the people on this thread if the foreign born population increased so much that in their kids adulthood the population born here became something like 50% or less?

Would that be an issue

That's an interesting question, and while it seems difficult or impossible to answer, it is in fact quite simple to answer.
The answer is No, not after it happens. And before it happens, they are mostly oblivious to it.

After it gets to that level, the people redefine themselves as "a nation of immigrants" and "the majority" are quite happy then with that situation.
You can see this effect working in London and some of the other cities of the UK. They have a very different attitude to issues such as Brexit when compared with some other parts of England that are still inhabited by "native" English people.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 11:50am

Calina wrote: »

The relevant statistic for Luxembourg is 52%.

Any intelligent person is aware that human history is full of migratory movements. We wouldn't actually have got to Ireland otherwise. Irish is not a genetic construct it is a cultural, political and geographic construct.

Discussions around native this and native that tend to miss that point. But I imagine the more people want to buy stupid DNA tests the more hung up on purity they will get. This discussion about native Irish is designed to be exclusionary.

But native refers to a Gaelic gene that is present throughout most of the last 12,500 years. The Irish people who carry this gene are what’s considered native. We are a race of people just as the Japanese and Chinese are. It’s ok to be proud of it, just as ancient tribes in Africa are proud. Stop this reflexive fear of any mention of ethnicity.

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 11:50am

vladmydad wrote: »

Your post sums up the malaise of Europeans. We’ve been browbeaten into believing the we’re the bad guys and our time is up. We’re witnessing the last days of Europe.

Last days of Europe. How so?

Also, borders change and have changed many times. Once upon a time there were no border lines drawn on a map. With border changes nationalities of people born in those areas will not be the same as people born in those areas in the past.

Mrs OBumble · 15-12-2018 11:52am

realitykeeper wrote: »

To me native Ireland is Irish speaking, Catholic and white.

Dem dam athiests, coming over here and stealing all our peoples!

FWIW, I know some ethnically-African kids who speak Irish better than your average white Catholic who was born here.

Den14 · 15-12-2018 11:52am

Deub wrote: »

Do you have an example?
I am not irish so I would like to know the potential risk I brought to Ireland.

It's the potential 'ghettos' that may establish in areas that could be a concern.
Integration is so important.
And the following video demonstrates when this doesn't happen. There is a recently made video where a female journalist attempts to walk around a suburb of paris... A good eye opener

https://youtu.be/RlNCVQGFrMU

Calina · 15-12-2018 11:53am

vladmydad wrote: »

But native refers to a Gaelic gene that is present throughout most of the last 12,500 years. The Irish people who carry this gene are what’s considered native. We are a race of people just as the Japanese and Chinese are. It’s ok to be proud of it, just as ancient tribes in Africa are proud. Stop this reflexive fear of any mention of ethnicity.

Citation required.

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 11:54am

vladmydad wrote: »

But native refers to a Gaelic gene that is present throughout most of the last 12,500 years. The Irish people who carry this gene are what’s considered native. We are a race of people just as the Japanese and Chinese are. It’s ok to be proud of it, just as ancient tribes in Africa are proud. Stop this reflexive fear of any mention of ethnicity.

Arbitrary definition. It means nothing really.

Sleeper12 · 15-12-2018 11:55am

I'm 7 percent Viking according to my DNA results. What percentage do I need to have to be Irish?

My wife's family came over and with Cromwell. She's less than 75 percent Irish yet her family have lived here hundreds of years.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 11:56am

Also the problem of self segregation. In America Hispanic, whites. blacks all tend to live in neighborhoods of the same ethnicity and do so by choice. In Michigan large Sudanese community’s are arising and following the same pattern. Ireland is in its infancy with multiculturalism, a lot of challenges lay ahead of us,

kneemos · 15-12-2018 11:57am

vladmydad wrote: »

But native refers to a Gaelic gene that is present throughout most of the last 12,500 years. The Irish people who carry this gene are what’s considered native. We are a race of people just as the Japanese and Chinese are. It’s ok to be proud of it, just as ancient tribes in Africa are proud. Stop this reflexive fear of any mention of ethnicity.

That's just something you've pulled out of your hole.

fryup · 15-12-2018 11:57am

realitykeeper wrote: »

To me native Ireland is Irish speaking, Catholic and white

does that narrow-minded attitude still exist ?

thought we gone past that?

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 11:58am

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm 7 percent Viking according to my DNA results. What percentage do I need to have to be Irish?

My wife's family came over and with Cromwell. She's less than 75 percent Irish yet her family have lived here hundreds of years.

Ye might be let into the Irish gang if you provide sufficient personal and work references, but ye have no change of joining the 'Native Irish' gang!

Wanderer78 · 15-12-2018 11:59am

fryup wrote:

does that narrow-minded attitude still exist ?

It is for some religiously obsessed people

Deub · 15-12-2018 11:59am

vladmydad wrote: »

Yugoslavia, western Roman Empire, Austria-Hungary

How can you compare this change with these examples. It is hundreds of different nationalities coming to Ireland (and other countries by the way).

[Deleted User] · 15-12-2018 12:00pm

vladmydad wrote: »

So mass immigration cannot be discussed ?

It can, as long as you have reliable statistics and expect to be called racist anyway by the very same "liberals" who'd be significantly more "racist" themselves if they were at the bottom of the Irish socio-economic ladder, and therefore the first to suffer from the immigration they support from behind their formidable barriers/forts of high education/professional qualifications/long-established networks/nice home in an area in which many immigrants cannot afford to live, etc.

EDit · 15-12-2018 12:00pm

vladmydad wrote: »

But native refers to a Gaelic gene that is present throughout most of the last 12,500 years. The Irish people who carry this gene are what’s considered native. We are a race of people just as the Japanese and Chinese are. It’s ok to be proud of it, just as ancient tribes in Africa are proud. Stop this reflexive fear of any mention of ethnicity.

Considering the mixing of populations over the past 12500 years, I’d imagine there are a lot of non-Irish that carry any so-called “Gaelic” gene. For example, would you consider a Polish man, whose ancestors included a random Irish person 500 years ago and so carries this Gaelic gene, and who has lived in Poland all his life, to be “native Irish”?

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 12:00pm

Anyone notice the large plant boxes blocking vehicle access to busy pedestrian streets in Dublin this weekend ?
Just another example of the new reality of all this cultural enrichment.

batgoat · 15-12-2018 12:00pm

vladmydad wrote: »

Your post sums up the malaise of Europeans. We’ve been browbeaten into believing the we’re the bad guys and our time is up. We’re witnessing the last days of Europe.

Cool, should I stock up on dried goods?

thegreengoblin · 15-12-2018 12:00pm

The vast majority of the problems this country has faced since independence have been caused by the 'natives' so anyone looking to target immigrants because they're diluting the gene pool or some such bollox can go and do one.

stimpson · 15-12-2018 12:01pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Ethnic Irish Travellers are as close as it gets and they are a tiny percentage of the population.

Even the travellers are not genetically separate from the rest of the population, despite what some would have you think.

The one thing I love about genetics is that genes are used by the hard right as a propaganda tool for “racial purity”, but the science shows that few of us are actually “pure” - we’re all mongrels to some extent.

And that due to genetic diseases being passed on to offspring, being pure is not a good thing.

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 12:01pm

vladmydad wrote: »

Anyone notice the large plant boxes blocking vehicle access to busy pedestrian streets in Dublin this weekend ?
Just another example of the new reality of all this cultural enrichment.

Go on. There is one word you are dying to use throughout this thread...just say it and get it out in the open. We all know what you have been referring to all along. There is no need to hide it.

vladmydad · 15-12-2018 12:03pm

EDit wrote: »

vladmydad wrote: »

But native refers to a Gaelic gene that is present throughout most of the last 12,500 years. The Irish people who carry this gene are what’s considered native. We are a race of people just as the Japanese and Chinese are. It’s ok to be proud of it, just as ancient tribes in Africa are proud. Stop this reflexive fear of any mention of ethnicity.

Considering the mixing of populations over the past 12500 years, I’d imagine there are a lot of non-Irish that carry any so-called “Gaelic” gene. For example, would you consider a Polish man, whose ancestors included a random Irish person 500 years ago and so carries this Gaelic gene, and who has lived in Poland all his life, to be “native Irish”?

I guess it would make him 1/20th Irish or something like that.

stimpson · 15-12-2018 12:04pm

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Go on. There is one word you are dying to use throughout this thread...just say it and get it out in the open. We all know what you have been referring to all along. There is no need to hide it.

It’s the Chinese he’s after, not the Greeks.

Fighting Tao · 15-12-2018 12:04pm

stimpson wrote: »

Even the travellers are not genetically separate from the rest of the population, despite what some would have you think.

The one thing I love about genetics is that genes are used by the hard right as a propaganda tool for “racial purity”, but the science shows that few of us are actually “pure” - we’re all mongrels to some extent.

And that due to genetic diseases being passed on to offspring, being pure is not a good thing.

I should have said they are the only ones that have the legal protection and recognition to be Irish by ethnicity.

EDit · 15-12-2018 12:04pm

vladmydad wrote: »

I guess it would make him 1/20th Irish or something like that.

Ok, so I guess the real question should be...if he moved to Ireland would you consider that to be a good or bad thing? (Remember, he carries the magic gene!)

Ireland is now only 82% Native Irish.

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