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Ireland is now only 82% Native Irish.

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Comments

  • #32
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    I'd be more concerned about kids not gaining the most critical life skills via our educational system than learning Irish to be honest

    Would that not be a parents job?


  • #33
    Palmach
    Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Palmach


    Fighting Tao wrote: »
    Ah, one of those not racist but is racist threads. Well done OP for covering that off in your initial post. Then continue on your racist way with your other posts.

    Well done you for your silly knee jerk reaction. One of the reasons migration does not discussed as much as it should is that birdbrains like you start this rubbish. Not discussing it leads to Brexit, the EDL, Le Pen Trump etc. If it happens here you really will be clutching your pearls.
    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    I'd be more concerned about kids not gaining the most critical life skills via our educational system than learning Irish to be honest

    The impact of large scale migration on schools is a real problem especially when they don't have a basic grasp of the language. It takes much planning and resources to adequately address it.


  • #34
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Palmach wrote: »
    Well done you for your silly knee jerk reaction. One of the reasons migration does not discussed as much as it should is that birdbrains like you start this rubbish. Not discussing it leads to Brexit, the EDL, Le Pen Trump etc. If it happens here you really will be clutching your pearls.

    Not knee jerk at all. Faux concern for 'Native' Irish and the failure to answer simple questions are a very good hint of the reasoning of the thread. Also, the follow up posts, all the medias fault for not mentioning immigration etc... But then don't let the facts from the OP's posts get in the way of a good rant.


  • #35
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,785 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Shefwedfan wrote:
    Would that not be a parents job?


    Unfortunately we ain't born with parenting skills, it's something we learn, it's a work in progress, include some complicated elements into the equation, such as poverty and inequality, and you ll quickly have major problems. These issues are a true reflection of ourselves, greater society, we re not willing to accept social failures, instead we d rather blame the individuals involved, because, well it's easier to do so, and it absolves those not directly involved.


  • #36
    vladmydad
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭vladmydad


    EDit wrote: »
    I repeat ....
    EDit wrote: »
    How is native Irish defined? Who makes up the other 18%?

    You’re saying you want a discussion, but you can’t even answer the most basic question as to “native” means
    It’s what’s mentioned in the census, I guess they mean Gaelic, which has been the dominant genetic identity , despite invasions, of the inhabitants of this island for thousands of years.


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  • #37
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    PirateShampoo wrote: »
    What's Native?

    My daughter is only half Irish with me being Welsh. She's born and raised here.

    Is the kid in her class that was born here and has a Dublin accent but Polish parents, is he Native?

    No.


  • #38
    ArchXStanton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    Palmach wrote: »
    Well done you for your silly knee jerk reaction. One of the reasons migration does not discussed as much as it should is that birdbrains like you start this rubbish. Not discussing it leads to Brexit, the EDL, Le Pen Trump etc. If it happens here you really will be clutching your pearls.



    The impact of large scale migration on schools is a real problem especially when they don't have a basic grasp of the language. It takes much planning and resources to adequately address it.

    A relation of mine teaches young children in a very mixed school, they have to wear picture cards around their necks and point to different things the kids want/need/are asked.


  • #39
    coastwatch
    Registered Users Posts: 908 ✭✭✭coastwatch


    It's a great development, we badly needed to add some "good lookin" genes to the irish gene pool, we were a bunch of pale and pasty freckle heads for far too long.


  • #40
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Unfortunately we ain't born with parenting skills, it's something we learn, it's a work in progress, include some complicated elements into the equation, such as poverty and inequality, and you ll quickly have major problems. These issues are a true reflection of ourselves, greater society, we re not willing to accept social failures, instead we d rather blame the individuals involved, because, well it's easier to do so, and it absolves those not directly involved.


    I’m not sure I get you, so because we don’t know how to parent we expect some 20 year old straight out of college to do it for us?

    Shocking if true....

    Yes we don’t know how to parent but then we train ourselves like we do in our jobs

    I would never expect a school to provide my children with critical life skills

    So back to point, the loss of the Irish language is a bigger trategy than a couple of percent on some rating system


  • #41
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Irish?


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  • #42
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    vladmydad wrote: »
    Without the racist, xenophobic accusations and all that crap, does anyone have any concerns about just how rapidly the % of Dublin people are decreasing in Dublin. In fact it’s actually taboo. What are your thoughts?

    Boggers driving up rents, taking our jobs.. tis tirrible joe


  • #43
    vladmydad
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭vladmydad


    coastwatch wrote: »
    It's a great development, we badly needed to add some "good lookin" genes to the irish gene pool, we were a bunch of pale and pasty freckle heads for far too long.
    Haha true but I mean it’s a radical change in demographics in such a short period of time, surely we need more discussion on it.


  • #44
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    kneemos wrote: »
    If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Dublin?

    No. They'd still be boggers. Just second generation boggers. They'll still go on to be teachers and guards. None of them would work in a warehouse for example.


  • #45
    vladmydad
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭vladmydad


    kneemos wrote: »
    If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Irish?
    No not genetically. Just like if I was born in Japan I’m not genetically Japanese.


  • #46
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users Posts: 6,482 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    kneemos wrote: »
    If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Irish?

    Not in this thread.


  • #47
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭stimpson


    ArchXStanton wrote: »
    A relation of mine teaches young children in a very mixed school, they have to wear picture cards around their necks and point to different things the kids want/need/are asked.

    Balls. Kids brains are wired to learn language very easily. Plenty of non national kids in my kids school. Many started in junior infants with no English. None of them had this and they all have picked it up quickly.

    Personally speaking as long as they integrate well I don’t care where they are from. A bit of diversity does us good by deepening the green pool and bringing a fresh outlook. I’d happily swap some hard working Polish immigrants for our native dole scroungers.


  • #48
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    stimpson wrote: »
    Personally speaking as long as they integrate well I don’t care where they are from. A bit of diversity does us good by deepening the green pool and bringing a fresh outlook. I’d happily swap some hard working Kerry immigrants for our native dole scroungers.

    Agreed. They are a great resource of knowledge when it comes to gardening


  • #49
    stimpson
    Registered Users Posts: 7,815 ✭✭✭stimpson


    Stop twisting my words. I don’t mind the Poles but I draw the line at Kerrymen.


  • #50
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    vladmydad wrote: »
    No not genetically. Just like if I was born in Japan I’m not genetically Japanese.


    People who get those Gene pool tests are a mix of all sorts.

    How do you definitely genetically Irish?


  • #51
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    coastwatch wrote: »
    It's a great development, we badly needed to add some "good lookin" genes to the irish gene pool, we were a bunch of pale and pasty freckle heads for far too long.

    You won't say that when some half breed Klingon Martian starts banging your daughter with his xxl cock


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  • #52
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    kneemos wrote: »
    If the children of immigrants are born here surely they are native Irish?

    According to who?

    You're assuming those children, or their parents, want to be identified as Irish as if being Irish is the Holy Grail of national identity.


  • #53
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    kneemos wrote: »
    People who get those Gene pool tests are a mix of all sorts.

    How do you define genetically Irish?

    Good strong mix of Germanic Celt, Franco Norman, nomadic Geal blood.


  • #54
    EDit
    Registered Users Posts: 819 ✭✭✭EDit


    vladmydad wrote: »
    It’s what’s mentioned in the census, I guess they mean Gaelic, which has been the dominant genetic identity , despite invasions, of the inhabitants of this island for thousands of years.

    ...and how does your average Joe assess their genetic identity? If it is from the census, it is probably based just on self-assessed nationality or place of birth

    I’m not originally from Ireland, but my wife is and my sons were born here. In a census, they would be recorded as Irish, but I have sullied their genetic lineage with my evil non-Irish genes...hence, all these stats are meaningless really


  • #55
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,473 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    vladmydad wrote: »
    But does anyone find the complete silence on the issue a little Orwellian, I mean it’s a radical societal change in just 20 years with unknown ramifications for future generations and yet it’s just not spoken of.

    It’s just modern life, it doesn’t mean it’s going to be worse.

    If people, (real Irish amd others)focused on being productive members of the Irish society and worried less about the colour of their neighbors skin and what faux god they pray to, we would be grand.

    But people’s ingrained ignorance of wanting to see difference and draw lines around difference cause endless problems. People who fee entitled to be looked after and their lifestyle kept at the expense of workers, this is how ansociety gets dragged down.


  • #56
    Yer Da sells Avon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,737 ✭✭✭Yer Da sells Avon


    PirateShampoo wrote: »
    What's Native?

    My daughter is only half Irish with me being Welsh. She's born and raised here.

    Is the kid in her class that was born here and has a Dublin accent but Polish parents, is he Native?

    I think a more important question might be, 'does it matter' whether someone is or isn't 'native'?

    To most people (away from AH anyway), it doesn't.


  • #57
    vladmydad
    Registered Users Posts: 786 ✭✭✭vladmydad


    kneemos wrote: »
    vladmydad wrote: »
    No not genetically. Just like if I was born in Japan I’m not genetically Japanese.


    People who get those Gene pool tests are a mix of all sorts.

    How do you definitely genetically Irish?
    But are you saying if my Irish parents went to Japan and gave birth to me I would share the same genetics as the ancient Japanese people ? So therefore am I Japanese ? Does ethnicity matter ? And if not then why do we link certain ethnicities with certain geographical locations eg Chinese in China.


  • #58
    kneemos
    Registered Users Posts: 20,407 ✭✭✭✭kneemos


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    According to who?

    You're assuming those children, or their parents, want to be identified as Irish as if being Irish is the Holy Grail of national identity.


    They can identify as Norwegians, they're still native Irish.


  • #59
    Arthur Daley
    Registered Users Posts: 4,368 ✭✭✭Arthur Daley


    It is a concern for a significant number of people. Plus large amounts of migration within 20 years into a country like Ireland, with no empire or history of foreign invasion, is especially worrying.

    Really it's gotta be motivated by the desire to drive down wages, and fill up houses.


  • #60
    realitykeeper
    Registered Users Posts: 4,138 ✭✭✭realitykeeper


    vladmydad wrote: »
    Without the racist, xenophobic accusations and all that crap, does anyone have any concerns about just how rapidly the Irish people are decreasing in Ireland ?
    It’s a very recent phenomenon and given that immigration into Ireland is ever increasing and that the birth rates of the “new” Irish are dramatically higher than natives. It is inevitable that 82% will soon be 70% , 55%, 40% etc.

    There is no debate in Irish media or politics about this and we have never voted on the issue. In fact it’s actually taboo. What are your thoughts?

    To me native Ireland is Irish speaking, Catholic and white so to me the native population is very small which is a pity but it is a fact I came to terms with long before Ireland pivoted from a country of mass emigration thirty years ago to immigration now.

    The reason I am not inclined to bemoan these changes is that I feel it the Irish have given up on themselves in not reviving the language, in failing to get rid of the drink culture and in our failure to adopt a work centric culture. I feel secularism is a bad development and that has happened independently of immigration so there again the Irish have failed.

    Being proud of being Irish is fine but when one is constantly disappointed, one tends to separate the chaff from the wheat or the good from the bad. I think where you have a people who are consistently doing the wrong thing, adopting the wrong attitudes and who have misplaced values, such a people are due a comeuppance. Elsewhere, there are countries with good people who have the right ideas and values. I think good people are leaving Ireland while people of questionable caliber remain. As for the immigrants, I think the checks and balances are flimsy at best but what else would you expect from the Irish.


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  • #61
    Christy Browne
    Registered Users Posts: 1,159 ✭✭✭Christy Browne


    enricoh wrote: »
    According to the last census 18% foreign born, in reality I'd be surprised if its not close to 25%

    So me being born in London to two Irish parents and moving home when I was 4 means I’m not native Irish?

    There’s thousands in the same situation. Where you are born isn’t the ultimate litmus test of someones “Irishness”


This discussion has been closed.
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