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Margaret Cash steals €300 worth of clothes from Penneys and aftermath/etc!

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    It is not been dishonest at all no traveller has ever done me any harm but settled people have.
    Also are much larger numbers in settled community then the who also suffer from lack of opportunity in education. Who have generations living on social welfare.
    But as the travellers lack education thier groups are rarely articulate enough to properly market themselves and counteract propaganda.
    If you contrast this to another minority group LGBT etc the difference could not be more stark. The LGBT community are educated prevalent in the arts, media, government etc.
    The likes of Boxer Francie Barrett was treated i(n a very subtle way) similar to the way then Cassius Clay was treated in Southern America after he was in the Olympics.
    I can remember an Interview where Marty Morrissey asked his mother something to the effect of 'have you ever got a box from him yourself?'

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=307107

    Until the travellers achieve the same they are never going to stand a chance against constant hyperbolic anti-traveller vitriol. Where it is siezed upon and positive stories are ignored by the media as it does not sell papers/programmes TV3 etc.
    As I said in an earlier post the travellers are largely still stuck in a cultural mindset of 70 years ago, at the pace of technological change alone it is extremely difficult for them not to be even further left behind.
    It was dishonest of you to say "obviously all settled people are bad so?" And i explained it's a question of numbers and accepting responsibility. Not one person would disagree that there is criminality among non travellers.

    I've no doubt you haven't experienced problems from travellers, but that doesn't change the huge numbers who have. Particularly in very remote areas and council estates.

    It is not propaganda - it is the truth. Whose fault is it that they're left behind? This state offers so much to help them progress. So many are choosing not to keep their children in education, choosing not to use contraception, choosing to live in unhealthy conditions. Are they to be responsible for themselves or is deflection of blame the better option in the long run?

    Idiocy by Marty Morrissey though - no arguments there.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    dan1895 wrote: »
    I meant to quote the poster who mentioned the story of the referee in the Sunday World. Here's a link to the front page.


    https://twitter.com/sundayworld/status/1066476839982510081?s=19
    Ah, thanks for clarifying. Talk about a Father Jack "I'm sorry" :rolleyes: "racial abuse" - how utterly loathsome.
    I agree he was an idiot and it was also very hateful not trying to defend him.


    Yet to see a traveller charged for anything they have put online however different strokes for different folks.
    Charges would have to be brought against them and people don't have the time or money or faith in the system. But I agree - some of what I've seen posted by travellers is utterly poisonous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭boombang


    I have to say that I find the linking of the attack to abuse on the pitch both pretty weak and fairly typical.

    There always seems to be an attempt to pass the buck for their transgressions. They should not have been subject to abuse, but that in no way explains or justified beating the ref.

    Disgraceful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    It was dishonest of you to say "obviously all settled people are bad so?" And i explained it's a question of numbers and accepting responsibility. Not one person would disagree that there is criminality among non travellers.

    I've no doubt you haven't experienced problems from travellers, but that doesn't change the huge numbers who have. Particularly in very remote areas and council estates.

    It is not propaganda - it is the truth. Whose fault is it that they're left behind? This state offers so much to help them progress. So many are choosing not to keep their children in education, choosing not to use contraception, choosing to live in unhealthy conditions. Are they to be responsible for themselves or is deflection of blame the better option in the long run?

    Idiocy by Marty Morrissey though - no arguments there.

    It is thier own fault they are been left behind, as thier culture is becoming increasingly antiquated compared to mainstream society.
    They have very limited PR Pavee Point is the best they have which is incoherent and inarticulate most of the time so they have no real hope to counter it - unless an Irish traveller boxer win gold in boxing or a traveller actor gets an Oscar they cannot create hype over good news stories.
    Whereas the hype falls on the negative ones like this story.

    I believe it is partly propoganda/conformation bias there another traveller involved in criminality it attracts more attention sells more papers.

    Look at the major murders in Ireland.
    How many were committed by settled people?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_crimes_in_Ireland

    Was the phrase settled person Graham O'Dwyer found guilty of murdering Elaine O'Hara?
    No it was a focused on his socio-economic background leafy suburb etc.

    Whereas in items concerning travellers it is either in the headline or not far from it.

    Was Father Brendan Smyth styled as a settled person who happened to be a pedophile priest?
    No.

    Is the latest Kinahan-Hutch feud being described as a feud between settled people?
    No.

    When Veronica Guerin was shot was it said that she was shot by a settled person?
    No.

    Was Larry Murphy described as settled serial killer rapist?
    No.

    Now ask yourself in your own personal life how many times has a settled person caused you grief/criminality/hassle in your life?
    How many times has a traveller done the same?

    The way travellers are portrayed in the media reminds me of a joke Bill Burr told about the rednecks attitude to Obama.

    The rednecks could not wait for the recession to blame Obama.
    (Put on redneck accent)
    Redneck 1 - I knew it ya see, a black President.

    Redneck 2 - But isn't he is half black???

    Redneck 1 - But it was that half what done it!!!



    To me that sums the confirmation bias people have with travellers the negative news stories are siezed upon.
    However, in this case the woman in question does not seem like a very nice individual who has a large amount of duplicity as well.
    But that not give people the right to say there ya see I knew it, they are all at it.
    No surprises there etc - in other words confirmation bias.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    It is thier own fault they are been left behind, as thier culture is becoming increasingly antiquated compared to mainstream society.
    They have very limited PR Pavee Point is the best they have which is incoherent and inarticulate most of the time so they have no real hope to counter it - unless an Irish traveller boxer win gold in boxing or a traveller actor gets an Oscar they cannot create hype over good news stories.
    Whereas the hype falls on the negative ones like this story.

    I believe it is partly propoganda/conformation bias there another traveller involved in criminality it attracts more attention sells more papers.

    Look at the major murders in Ireland.
    How many were committed by settled people?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_major_crimes_in_Ireland

    Was the phrase settled person Graham O'Dwyer found guilty of murdering Elaine O'Hara?
    No it was a focused on his socio-economic background leafy suburb etc.

    Whereas in items concerning travellers it is either in the headline or not far from it.

    Was Father Brendan Smyth styled as a settled person who happened to be a pedophile priest?
    No.

    Is the latest Kinahan-Hutch feud being described as a feud between settled people?
    No.

    When Veronica Guerin was shot was it said that she was shot by a settled person?
    No.

    Was Larry Murphy described as settled serial killer rapist?
    No.

    Now ask yourself in your own personal life how many times has a settled person caused you grief/criminality/hassle in your life?
    How many times has a traveller done the same?

    The way travellers are portrayed in the media reminds me of a joke Bill Burr told about the rednecks attitude to Obama.

    The rednecks could not wait for the recession to blame Obama.
    (Put on redneck accent)
    Redneck 1 - I knew it ya see, a black President.

    Redneck 2 - But isn't he is half black???

    Redneck 1 - But it was that half what done it!!!



    To me that sums the confirmation bias people have with travellers the negative news stories are siezed upon.
    However, in this case the woman in question does not seem like a very nice individual who has a large amount of duplicity as well.
    But that not give people the right to say there ya see I knew it, they are all at it.
    No surprises there etc - in other words confirmation bias.


    1z1z4f.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    1z1z4f.jpg

    Obviously putting up memes, demonstrates you have no real counter argument and do not wish to seriously think about it.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    Obviously putting up memes, demonstrates you have no real counter argument and do not wish to seriously think about it.

    Your posting trash you have not posted any real argument.
    Confirmation bias as in you find exactly what you expected to find but this is bias.

    That my good man is called evidence can you post any links to anything positive about these people?
    The meme was making exactly that point conformation bias what nonsense.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    70 years ago they had skills with metal repairs and could work with farmers. Now the farmers fear them!

    70 years ago they were experts at horses. Yeah some still have this but starving your horse on waste ground and racing them up a dual carriageway isn't a deep and spiritual bond as John Connors like to wax about

    Ireland would be a better place if travellers acted as they did 70 years ago.



    You're mistaking lack of education for lack of intelligence. Plenty of people leave school early and would outsmart you in any deal.

    I would agree that travellers fit better into society 70 years ago, but to say they have lack of intelligence is akin to British/American propaganda in the 19th century

    scientific_racism_irish-1899.jpg

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭hurler32


    boombang wrote: »
    I have to say that I find the linking of the attack to abuse on the pitch both pretty weak and fairly typical.

    There always seems to be an attempt to pass the buck for their transgressions. They should not have been subject to abuse, but that in no way explains or justified beating the ref.

    Disgraceful.

    Those travellers that gave that referre such a savage beating should be in jail but instead a throwaway I’m sorry seems to be adequate for the Dublin media .

    What chance would a 70 or 80 year old person living on their own in Westmeath have against these thugs in the middle of the night as they rob them ??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    Obviously putting up memes, demonstrates you have no real counter argument and do not wish to seriously think about it.


    And YOUR next post lamping divine:rolleyes:










    I would agree that travellers fit better into society 70 years ago, but to say they have lack of intelligence is akin to British/American propaganda in the 19th century

    scientific_racism_irish-1899.jpg


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Your posting trash you have not posted any real argument.
    Confirmation bias as in you find exactly what you expected to find but this is bias.

    That my good man is called evidence can you post any links to anything positive about these people?
    The meme was making exactly that point conformation bias what nonsense.

    So you are completly ignoring the fact that all those people I mentioned were settled people - Father Brendan Smyth etc.
    Who committed all those major murders were they travellers or settled people.
    Did John Gilligan live in a trailer?

    Or can that be convientely ingorned as it does not fir your stereotype?

    As I have said no traveller has done me any harm.
    From a general societal standpoint settled people have caused Ireland much more harm then travellers ever have - murders, rapes etc etc.
    That is my argument and as the travellers are always couched into the one grouping and settled people as a whole never are it is easy to have confirmation bias like yours.
    That is my argument.
    It is fairly simple.

    Settled people - not couched into one grouping when crimes are committed
    Travellers - couched into one grouping when crimes are committed.

    Therefore the settled people can say I told you so while turning a blind eye to crimes in the settled community = confirmation bias

    I cannot make it an simpler for you.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,841 ✭✭✭Squatter


    So you are completly ignoring the fact that all those people I mentioned were settled people - Father Brendan Smyth etc.
    Who committed all those major murders were they travellers or settled people.
    Did John Gilligan live in a trailer?

    Or can that be convientely ingorned as it does not fir your stereotype?

    As I have said no traveller has done me any harm.
    From a general societal standpoint settled people have caused Ireland much more harm then travellers ever have - murders, rapes etc etc.
    That is my argument and as the travellers are always couched into the one grouping and settled people as a whole never are it is easy to have confirmation bias like yours.
    That is my argument.
    It is fairly simple.

    Settled people - not couched into one grouping when crimes are committed
    Travellers - couched into one grouping when crimes are committed.

    Therefore the settled people can say I told you so while turning a blind eye to crimes in the settled community = confirmation bias

    I cannot make it an simpler for you.


    Congrats on producing an analysis that is so simplistic that even a simpleton could understand it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    As I have said no traveller has done me any harm.

    From a general societal standpoint settled people have caused Ireland much more harm then travellers ever have - murders, rapes etc etc.

    Travellers 0.6% of the population
    Everyone else 99.4%

    This information that settled people cause more harm is common sure shure :confused:

    It doesn't explain though how 0.6% of the population have 10% of the prison population. ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    And YOUR next post lamping divine:rolleyes:

    That is not a meme that is taken from a newspaper from the period again to are failing even to see the flaws in your biases now you are talking around the posts.
    The classic tactic of someone who has lost the argument trying to move the goal posts.
    I will ask you again how many times has a settled person caused you hassle/crime in your personal life?
    How many times has a traveller caused you hassle/crime in your personal life?

    Think about it and write it down in columns if it makes it easier for you.

    Now do the same for major crimes in Ireland were they settled people or were they travellers.
    Was that rapist/murderer/pedophile a traveller or a settled person?

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Travellers 0.6% of the population
    Everyone else 99.4%

    This information that settled people cause more harm is common sure shure :confused:

    It doesn't explain though how 0.6% of the population have 10% of the prison population. ;)

    That is easily explained if you called people from certain lower disadvantaged socio-ecomic demographic an 'ethnic grouping' the same would happen for that settled community.
    Screen-Shot-2015-11-16-at-10.34.06-1024x944.png

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭CinemaGuy45


    That is not a meme that is taken from a newspaper from the period again to are failing even to see the flaws in your biases now you are talking around the posts.
    The classic tactic of someone who has lost the argument trying to move the goal posts.
    I will ask you again how many times has a settled person caused you hassle/crime in your personal life?
    How many times has a traveller caused you hassle/crime in your personal life?

    Think about it and write it down in columns if it makes it easier for you.

    Now do the same for major crimes in Ireland were they settled people or were they travellers.
    Was that rapist/murderer/pedophile a traveller or a settled person?

    I was assaulted by a number of them I also had property stolen by them those are the only two times I have been the victim of assault and theft.

    Not going to answer any more of your posts but as regards, assaults and thefts travellers have been responsible for 100% of these in my life is that simple enough for you to understand?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    As I said in an earlier post the travellers are largely still stuck in a cultural mindset of 70 years ago, at the pace of technological change alone it is extremely difficult for them not to be even further left behind.

    It's actually extremely easy. You just keep your kids in school.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,922 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    Aodhán Ó Ríordáin on boards it seems. A halting site and drug injection centre for every parish

    I'd love to live in your happy innocent world, it seems so perfect. South Dublin?

    I don't know Dublin areas so well in that map but I do know you are not from the midlands when as it happens most travellers are based.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    I was assaulted by a number of them I also had property stolen by them those are the only two times I have been the victim of assault and theft.

    Not going to answer any more of your posts but as regards, assaults and thefts travellers have been responsible for 100% of these in my life is that simple enough for you to understand?

    Well not one single traveller has even caused me any harm.
    In fact they have been sound for the most part, like most people are in day to day life.
    Whereas settled people have caused me harm I do not go around saying settled people are the root of all evils, I give them another name scumbags.

    They are scumbags who happen to be settled people in my case. In your case they scumbags who happen to be travellers.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    mikemac2 wrote: »
    Aodhán Ó Ríordáin on boards it seems. A halting site and drug injection centre for every parish

    I'd love to live in your happy innocent world, it seems so perfect. South Dublin?

    I don't know Dublin areas so well in that map but I do know you are not from the midlands when as it happens most travellers are based.

    Nope I am not South Dublin and I don't live near Pat Kenny.
    Your first comment was amusing though.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    I see your points Gorm but it's still hard for me to have sympathy to the community as a whole. Individual decent travellers absolutely yes - and i have met them and love hearing about when they break the cycle.

    As long as the stereotype continues to be perpetuated, the prejudice will remain though. Why when your community has a terrible reputation would you continue to accept the very behaviour that leads to said reputation?

    You mentioned the Irish immigrants in the US and UK and the prejudice they faced - and instead of complying with those stereotypes they said "**** you, I'll show you" - they worked their asses off doing labouring, in the US the NYPD and fire department became synonymous with the Irish - they turned things around, and so did the attitude towards them (excluding the provo threat in the UK).

    Travellers have been given the tools by the state, and until they use them for their betterment, the fear of a culture with disproportionate levels of violence, criminality, unsanitary conditions, child marriage, lack of contraception use and shunning of education, will remain.

    At least admitting the problems instead of playing the entitled victim would be a start.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    strandroad wrote: »
    It's actually extremely easy. You just keep your kids in school.

    I think that will a long, long process of cultural change.

    Pavee Point have visions of the future... :rolleyes:

    http://www.paveepoint.ie/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Education_Leaflet.pdf


    Meanwhile the Department of Justice and Equality release another glossy 'strategy'

    http://www.justice.ie/en/JELR/National%20Traveller%20and%20Roma%20Inclusion%20Strategy,%202017-2021.pdf/Files/National%20Traveller%20and%20Roma%20Inclusion%20Strategy,%202017-2021.pdf


    I would say it could take 50 years at the rate they are going.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭Paddy Cow


    That is easily explained if you called people from certain lower disadvantaged socio-ecomic demographic an 'ethnic grouping' the same would happen for that settled community.
    That's the whole point though. The troublesome sections of the settled community aren't going around looking for ethnic status to protect the criminal aspect of their "culture".


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,131 ✭✭✭✭gormdubhgorm


    Paddy Cow wrote: »
    That's the whole point though. The troublesome sections of the settled community aren't going around looking for ethnic status to protect the criminal aspect of their "culture".

    I don't think the travellers as a whole want to 'protect' thier criminal element.
    They don't like it does not help them
    But in fairness anytime I have heard Pavee Point thier lack of media savviness makes it sound worse.
    They come out with things like there is bad and good in everyone. Do not put people all in the one.

    It always sounds a bit weak rather then coming up with coherent solid counter-arguments stats/facts.
    In contrast to the way those from other more polished minority groups deal with publicity both positive and negative.
    Unfortunately for the travellers it will take an exceptionally media savvy,educated , motivated, intelligent person from the traveller community to move thier community forward.
    Those type of people are rare in any community and the chances of them being in the traveller community are far less then others. Because of problems created caused by lack of education, fighting prejudice, and themselves, it seems unlikely.
    Where are the travellers role models? Boxing and actors who portray gangsters?
    Once they find some elsewhere that are really driven only then can they move into the modern world.

    Guff about stuff, and stuff about guff.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,260 ✭✭✭alias no.9


    Chewbacca wrote: »
    We need to stop calling ourselves "settled people".

    We don't, travellers do. Who the fück are they to label me as 'settled' or as a 'countryman'? I'm Irish, they can fück off with putting any other labels on me in an attempt to define themselves as different.

    So the simple answer to the whataboutery regarding scumbags such a Graham Dwyer and Brendan Smith is they're not called out as settled because neither they or any other so called 'settled' people define themselves as settled.

    There's nobody spouting ****e about settled people being the real victims in the Graham Dwyer case rather than poor Elaine O'Hara, yet time and time again some poor person is lying dead or badly beaten by the hands of travellers and we hear the whole 'travellers is the real victims here' nonsense trotted out regular as clockwork... like what the fück is that about.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭Trigger Happy


    Entitled wrote: »
    I wonder do the travellers resent the gypsies coming here? More competition for the best begging spots, muscling in with their own crime gangs etc?

    The Roma give gypsies a good name compared to our lot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 451 ✭✭hurler32


    So you are completly ignoring the fact that all those people I mentioned were settled people - Father Brendan Smyth etc.
    Who committed all those major murders were they travellers or settled people.
    Did John Gilligan live in a trailer?

    Or can that be convientely ingorned as it does not fir your stereotype?

    As I have said no traveller has done me any harm.


    I cannot make it an simpler for you.

    You should do the lotto as you are part of a very small lucky group if you haven’t suffered from traveller crime !

    In rural Ireland everyone is impacted by traveller crime young and old from children beaten up in schoolyards for their lunch to 80 year old people beaten up in their homes in the dead of night for their pension


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,007 ✭✭✭Augme


    I was assaulted by a number of them I also had property stolen by them those are the only two times I have been the victim of assault and theft.

    Not going to answer any more of your posts but as regards, assaults and thefts travellers have been responsible for 100% of these in my life is that simple enough for you to understand?

    I'm curious, if it was black people who had assualted you would you also hate all black people?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,678 ✭✭✭Signore Fancy Pants


    Augme wrote: »
    I'm curious, if it was black people who had assualted you would you also hate all black people?

    Ah, the "Black people" defence.

    Attempting to nullify and normalise traveller crime.

    LOL


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,585 ✭✭✭Jerichoholic


    If it was Aliens who did it would you hate them? Of course you ****ing would, stupidest post of all time.


This discussion has been closed.
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