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Travellers want a state apology

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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    Travellers native people? What does that make the rest of us? Were travelers around thousands of years ago before anyone else landed in Ireland. Comparing them to the New Zealand Maori or the Australian Aborigines is utter bollox..

    Can anyone remember the name of the RTE documentary, made with a young Traveller lad ( boxer, European level) who set out to prove via DNA technology their ethnic difference from the general population?
    After great fanfare, it turned out he couldnt prove any DNA difference, bar what you get from continual intermarraige within a closed group.
    Program sank without trace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 180 ✭✭Iwouldinmesack


    Well if they get one, theres no reason why the Deaf community shouldnt get an apology as we were and continue to be treated badly by the State. They even acknowleged we suffered and continue to suffer from 'extreme marginalisation' in 2016 yet have done sfa to rectify this even though they recognised our language as an official state language in 2017.

    What about an apology for normalisation, oralism (linguistic supression regarding the banning of using Irish Sign Language), segretation, oppression, the neglect and the physical and sexual abuse of Deaf people in Ireland? Noone really knows that this happened and its all swept under the carpet.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,256 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    a written apology?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    If they get money out of this, we should all identify as travellers.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Hitman3000


    If they get money out of this, we should all identify as travellers.


    Do you travel to work?


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 36,787 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    wexie wrote: »
    I guess the ongoing abuse isn't as harmful as whatever historic abuse.

    My guess is that standing up for traveler women would also mean speaking out against traveler men and traveler culture in general and acknowledging that perhaps all isn't kosher there.

    And of course that couldn't possibly be done publicly

    I suspect that but in the meantime a member of the Women's Council of Ireland is cheerfully ignoring a suppression of the rights of traveller women and girls in an oppressive patriarchal culture right on her own doorstep. It begs the question of what is the point of the council if it is happy to ignore such abuses.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    wexie wrote: »
    I guess the ongoing abuse isn't as harmful as whatever historic abuse.

    My guess is that standing up for traveler women would also mean speaking out against traveler men and traveler culture in general and acknowledging that perhaps all isn't kosher there.

    And of course that couldn't possibly be done publicly

    You are totally correct. They never look internally to solve problems. Its always external.

    1. Education - They need to look internally to make sure all children are educated fully at the very least to leaving cert level. They receive a huge amount of financial help and this should be a minimum. However currently dropping out is accepted if not encouraged.

    2. Crime - We always hear that "we're not all bad", but crime is accepted in their culture. Drug dealing, theft etc. They all live in close proximity to each other and know exactly whats going on. If they accept crime within their community then they are almost as guilty as those committing it. If i knew my neighbor was a criminal then i would report them. That wont happen in their community.

    3. Violence - They use violence in all aspects of their lives. Domestically, criminally and as a way to solve community disputes. They need to sort this out if they ever want to be accepted and not feared.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    what is the point of the council

    EBULPVFULQI6PG4TXFYEHZL2EI.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭piplip87


    Why is it the left and the liberals stand up for those who agree with the right ?

    Travellers are by definition deeply religious so abortion, gay marriage, women's rights to work and education are all big no no's to them.

    Arranged marriage still exists, why instead of looking for apologies that are not needed they tackle the inequalities in their own society first.


  • Moderators, Music Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,717 Mod ✭✭✭✭Boom_Bap


    Please accept this state apology.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Turnipman wrote: »
    "
    So presumably, in Ms. McDonagh's opinion, the nits should have been allowed to remain where they were, free to increase and multiply at will, and to sleep in Garda stations whenever they felt the urge?

    Nits need forever homes too you know.

    You're a bleeding nitist, that's what you are:mad:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Nits need forever homes too you know.

    You're a bleeding nitist, that's what you are:mad:

    #NitLivesMatter


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Was in a Toyota dealership last week getting an airbag recall done on my mother's 10 year old Yaris.

    A young traveller woman walks in, head to toe in ripped denim, and heads over to the brochures. She was a dead ringer for Vicky Pollard from Little Britain. The salesman leaps out from behind his desk like the Pope had just walked in to peruse the latest models. He wasn't half as interested in me 5 minutes beforehand!
    She asks him had he got the new model Land Cruiser to view, so he grabs a set of keys and escorts her outside to the forecourt! Another happy customer in the making!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 320 ✭✭VonZan


    Travellers; always the victims, never the cause. My heart bleeds for them.....


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭B-D-P--


    We are nearing 100 votes to no, and 0 votes to yes.

    Yet still the gov will buckle..

    When it comes to homeless they dont care because unless you carry a vote you are nothing to them...
    When it comes to these parasites, they actually do something....

    I dont get it, why dont they ignore them as the do the rest of irelands problems?


    For the record and before the snowflakes, Im not saying ignoring the homeless is a good thing. I'm saying thats what they are doing


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,568 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Agricola wrote: »
    Was in a Toyota dealership last week getting an airbag recall done on my mother's 10 year old Yaris.

    A young traveller woman walks in, head to toe in ripped denim, and heads over to the brochures. She was a dead ringer for Vicky Pollard from Little Britain. The salesman leaps out from behind his desk like the Pope had just walked in to peruse the latest models. He wasn't half as interested in me 5 minutes beforehand!
    She asks him had he got the new model Land Cruiser to view, so he grabs a set of keys and escorts her outside to the forecourt! Another happy customer in the making!


    He knows a cash sale when he sees it


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,907 ✭✭✭✭Kristopherus


    VonZan wrote: »
    Travellers; always the victims, never the cause. My heart bleeds for them.....

    As the book title says , they are a"blot on the landscape":D


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Well if they get one, theres no reason why the Deaf community shouldnt get an apology as we were and continue to be treated badly by the State. They even acknowleged we suffered and continue to suffer from 'extreme marginalisation' in 2016 yet have done sfa to rectify this even though they recognised our language as an official state language in 2017.

    What about an apology for normalisation, oralism (the banning of Irish Sign Language), segretation, the neglect and the physical and sexual abuse of Deaf people in Ireland? Swept under the carpet as usual.

    That's a good point. I hadn't heard about most of that and I'd agree.

    If there was discrimination against travellers by the state they should get an apology. The state needs to treat every individual with the exact same level of respect. If there was a state wide policy of treating a traveller differently because they were a traveller that's wrong.

    Now I know someone will reply and point out the criminality within the traveller community and they're right to point that out. My point is that when they break the law they should be treated like any other citizen who breaks the law. No more and no less. If the state treated them differently then that's wrong and they should get an apology.

    (btw, notice the IF that I put in. I honestly don't know enough about policies towards travellers to state that they do or don't deserve an apology. I'd like to see a proper study that shows this stuff. That's why I said "if")


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    piplip87 wrote: »
    Why is it the left and the liberals stand up for those who agree with the right ?

    Travellers are by definition deeply religious so abortion, gay marriage, women's rights to work and education are all big no no's to them.

    Arranged marriage still exists, why instead of looking for apologies that are not needed they tackle the inequalities in their own society first.
    Oh you know, it's not really their fault - it's the patriarchy causing them to behave in this way, the oppressed being the oppressors etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,934 ✭✭✭Renegade Mechanic


    I suspect that but in the meantime a member of the Women's Council of Ireland is cheerfully ignoring a suppression of the rights of traveller women and girls in an oppressive patriarchal culture right on her own doorstep. It begs the question of what is the point of the council if it is happy to ignore such abuses.

    They're paid to "help victims". If travellers aren't victims, they don't get paid. It's not actually about improving their standing. :/


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 886 ✭✭✭NasserShammaz


    So does every victim of their violence , fraud , intimidation ...............
    What a pile of horsesh#t.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Well apparently a while back they were recognised as having a unique genetic history compared to the rest of the population and were recognised as an "ethnic minority".

    Somewhat similar to the Roma gipsys are different genetically than to Romanians.
    It was near total ballsology BA. As Nekarsulm said any "difference" was down to generations of intermarriage where certain standard "Irish/European" genes become more common in the group. You find these kinda markers in any somewhat culturally or geographically isolated group. A large chunk of men with Donegal heritage and often linked to their family name(O'Donnell being one) share a particular gene. This doesn't make them an "ethnic minority".

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    They're paid to "help victims". If travellers aren't victims, they don't get paid. It's not actually about improving their standing. :/
    +1. Just another aspect of the Church of the Holy Victimhood all too common of late.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    Can we all just agree that travellers are very undesirable but must be tolerated in the name of ... I don't know.
    Criminality is rampant among the group, in fact, without travellers, it is very likely crime rates and fear would drop considerably. Of course we are not allowed to say they are all like that, and they probably aren't but still, undesirable and all that. Would you like them living next door to you?
    Apology my hole


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    the state could certainly do with apologising to a few groups in society. travellers are not one of those groups.

    this is just another piece of victim olympics bandwagoning in which every misfortune which befalls a group is automatically the fault of the wider society.

    Travellers, dry the crocodile tears, take some responsibility, get your own f*cking house in order and stop this campaign to emphasise your differences with the rest of the irish people. all you are archiving is further ostracisation and further state dependence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,803 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    Admittedly, it has been a long time since I was resident in Ireland but I recall there being a lot of state support for travellers. Their experience is nothing like that of the native people's of pre-colonial Australia and New Zealand, never mind apartheid. Those comparisons are frankly disgusting and I would have expected better from the Irish Times.

    While I would agree with you that comparing the struggles of genuine put upon, with the travellers is wrong, I'll just point out the article is written by a traveller and not the paper.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    Will they ever go flock off.

    State apology, when are they going to apologise for all the pain and suffering they have caused decent hard working people.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,564 ✭✭✭✭whiskeyman


    Wait for it.....





    Traveller-Gate!


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,820 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    RobertKK wrote:
    I read this Irish Times article and it is very one sided from a Traveller. Ok she speaks of hurt and discrimination suffered by Travellers, but not once deals with other real stuff like the criminality within the Traveller community. I never got an apology from the Travellers who tried to steal from me by being threatening and demanding money and when I said I would call the Guards if they didn’t leave me alone, I got told I should kill myself by hanging myself off a bridge. I had tried to be the good person to them originally and gave them work, in the article they talk about 82% unemployment. When there is a lack of trust it does lead to consequences. The settled community is not looking for Travellers to go uneducated, to get an inferior health service and there is a housing crisis so it is not like any section of society is getting preferential treatment.


    Here's the thing, all traveller's have been discriminated against yet not all travellers are involved in crime, dole sponging etc


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,303 ✭✭✭sexmag


    whiskeyman wrote: »
    Wait for it.....





    Traveller-Gate!

    Well they did steal mine so I guess it could be considered a traveller-gate now


This discussion has been closed.
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