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"How would you feel if your country was 'carved up'"?

24

Comments

  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    daheff wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    What is wrong with what she said? 

    She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

    I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

    the irony is unbelievable.

    Gibraltar (from Spain)
    Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
    Hong Kong (from China)
    Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

    just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).
    And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    banie01 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.

    Asking a group of Nations some of whom were "carved up" as a direct result of British policy over the course of their histories, how'd they'd feel if they were to be carved up?

    It shows a distinct lack of cop on and a total lack of awareness of the situation Britain has made for itself.
    She's asking EU leaders. I don't know of too may EU countries that were carved up as a result of British policy. In our case we signed a treaty with Britain so our leaders at the time agreed to partition.


  • #34
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,257 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.

    indeed - and isn't partition awful. Poor old United Kingdom - who would do such a thing...

    oh no wait

    the United Kingdom - quite the illustrious history in carving up nations..

    it's profited handsomely from such partitions and left an untold amount of misery in its wake..

    As I said - either dull or willfully ignorant


  • #35
    jiltloop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Deleted User wrote: »
    lawred2 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    What is wrong with what she said? 

    She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

    I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

    well that's rather obvious no?

    The kinda thing Prime Minsters of the UK should be expected to know.. it's not like this island's experience with partition has been a peaceful one.

    Anyone who doesn't see the problem is either a bit dull or wilfully ignorant.
    Sorry but I must be dull and ignorant. What's wrong with her comment? She is not referring to partition on this island. She is talking about partition between NI and the island of Britain.
    It's the inherent irony in the fact that she is trying to illicit sympathy with that comment while forgetting the fact that carving up a country is exactly what they did to Ireland.


  • #36
    jiltloop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Deleted User wrote: »
    daheff wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    What is wrong with what she said? 

    She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

    I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

    the irony is unbelievable.

    Gibraltar (from Spain)
    Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
    Hong Kong (from China)
    Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

    just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).
    And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?
    This is what they voted for.


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  • #37
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭daheff


    Deleted User wrote: »
    And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?

    I'm making the point that the UK has a lot of previous history in this regard (with out any care for the countries being carved up), so for them to be upset at the prospect is ironic.....maybe even Karma-esque

    UK didnt give the countries being carved up any say in the matter....they just did what they wanted...might is right. So the shoe is now on the other foot and they aren't too happy about it.


  • #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    jiltloop wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    daheff wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    What is wrong with what she said? 

    She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

    I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

    the irony is unbelievable.

    Gibraltar (from Spain)
    Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
    Hong Kong (from China)
    Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

    just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).
    And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?
    This is what they voted for.
    They didn't vote for Brexit so that NI would have a separate customs union. Simply false.


  • #39
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,434 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    She's asking EU leaders. I don't know of too may EU countries that were carved up as a result of British policy. In our case we signed a treaty with Britain so our leaders at the time agreed to partition.

    Go a little further back than the "EU" and British policy has left a trail of partition across Europe.
    From the rise of the Avengin empire and 100 years war to Henry VIII's French and Italian adventures adventures, the 30yrs war, The Dutch Wars, The War of the Austrian Succession, The Napoleonic Wars and the Concert of Europe, The support of Ottoman Empire, The genesis of the Balkan issue, the birth of Gunboat diplomacy, The Palestine mandate, the Balfour Declaration, The "Nation's" created out of the end of WW1, the dismissal of those nationalist tendencies of the Balkan nations to create "Yugoslavia", Malta, Egypt, all former British possessions in Africa.
    Germany.

    Britain has a long and varies history of sowing dissension and gave rise to the definitive system of divide and rule...
    The fact that they would choose to defend their Brexit aims and position with a "don't carve us up" claim, would strike any student of history as ironic in the extreme.


  • #40
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,434 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    jiltloop wrote: »
    This is what they voted for.

    And indeed what May agreed to with acquiescence to the EU's stated backstop.


  • #41
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,257 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    banie01 wrote: »
    Go a little further back than the "EU" and British policy has left a trail of partition across Europe.
    From the rise of the Avengin empire and 100 years war to Henry VIII's French and Italian adventures adventures, the 30yrs war, The Dutch Wars, The War of the Austrian Succession, The Napoleonic Wars and the Concert of Europe, The support of Ottoman Empire, The genesis of the Balkan issue, the birth of Gunboat diplomacy, The Palestine mandate, the Balfour Declaration, The "Nation's" created out of the end of WW1, the dismissal of those nationalist tendencies of the Balkan nations to create "Yugoslavia", Malta, Egypt, all former British possessions in Africa.
    Germany.

    Britain has a long and varies history of sowing dissension and gave rise to the definitive system of divide and rule...
    The fact that they would choose to defend their Brexit aims and position with a "don't carve us up" claim, would strike any student of history as ironic in the extreme.

    and offensive really


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  • #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    banie01 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    She's asking EU leaders. I don't know of too may EU countries that were carved up as a result of British policy. In our case we signed a treaty with Britain so our leaders at the time agreed to partition.

    Go a little further back than the "EU" and British policy has left a trail of partition across Europe.
    From the rise of the Avengin empire and 100 years war to Henry VIII's French and Italian adventures adventures, the 30yrs war, The Dutch Wars, The War of the Austrian Succession, The Napoleonic Wars and the Concert of Europe, The  support of Ottoman Empire, The genesis of the Balkan issue, the birth of Gunboat diplomacy, The Palestine mandate, the Balfour Declaration, The "Nation's" created out of the end of WW1, the dismissal of those nationalist tendencies of the Balkan nations to create "Yugoslavia", Malta, Egypt, all former British possessions in Africa.
    Germany.

    Britain has a long and varies history of sowing dissension and gave rise to the definitive system of divide and rule...
    The fact that they would choose to defend their Brexit aims and position with a "don't carve us up" claim, would strike any student of history as ironic in the extreme.
    So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.


  • #43
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,434 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.

    Britain joined a club with a rule book.
    Britain ratified the GFA, and enacted its provisions.
    There is no way to reconcile leaving the club, with keeping the GFA.

    Britain and in particular Brexiteers made a complete balls up of communicating what "Brexit" actually means to their electorate.

    The vote took place in at atmosphere of disinformation and jingoism.
    They can have Brexit, they can leave the EU without a deal...
    They can't do either of those things without repudiating the GFA by installing a border on the Island.
    Unless you have a suggestion as to how the magic border would work?


  • #44
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    banie01 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.

    Britain joined a club with a rule book.
    Britain ratified the GFA, and enacted its provisions.
    There is no way to reconcile leaving the club, with keeping the GFA.

    Britain and in particular Brexiteers made a complete balls up of communicating what "Brexit" actually means to their electorate.

    The vote took place in at atmosphere of disinformation and jingoism.
    They can have Brexit, they can leave the EU without a deal...
    They can't do either of those things without repudiating the GFA by installing a border on the Island.
    Unless you have a suggestion as to how the magic border would work?
    I'm simply trying to understand the fuss over Theresa May's quote.

    As far as the border goes I don't have a magic solution. I think there needs to be some deal worked out that involves compromise on all sides. I believe business interests will put enough pressure on all politicians to get a deal done by Oct/Nov. 
    In terms of misinformation and lies on Brexit is concerned, the lies and bullsh*t were being spouted by both sides in the debate, make no mistake.


  • #45
    lawred2
    Registered Users Posts: 24,257 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm simply trying to understand the fuss over Theresa May's quote.

    As far as the border goes I don't have a magic solution. I think there needs to be some deal worked out that involves compromise on all sides. I believe business interests will put enough pressure on all politicians to get a deal done by Oct/Nov. 
    In terms of misinformation and lies on Brexit is concerned, the lies and bullsh*t were being spouted by both sides in the debate, make no mistake.

    yeah it's been laid out multiple times to you...

    it's your choice to blithely ignore what's been said directly to you


  • #46
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭daheff


    Deleted User wrote: »
    So she is not entitled to try to prevent a carve-up of the UK? She is the prime minister and she needs to act in her countries interest.

    Nobody said shes not entitled to try to stop it. Its the reason given that has people scratching their head in disbelief. UK has done it for centuries, but when its threatened to the UK theres is a "please sir, don't carve us up as its not nice" excuse used.


  • #47
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    daheff wrote: »
    Nobody said shes not entitled to try to stop it. Its the reason given that has people scratching their head in disbelief. UK has done it for centuries, but when its threatened to the UK theres is a "please sir, don't carve us up as its not nice" excuse used.
    It's the sheer gobsmacking ignorance of it


  • #48
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    It's not a carve-up - it's an attempt to prevent a re-carve-up of Ireland.


  • #49
    bear1
    Registered Users Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭bear1


    Just when you think this **** show of a saga couldn't get worse.
    I'm actually curious, is there at all any chance of their being a physical border on this island?
    I can't see how it can be avoided at this stage..


  • #50
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    lawred2 wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I'm simply trying to understand the fuss over Theresa May's quote.

    As far as the border goes I don't have a magic solution. I think there needs to be some deal worked out that involves compromise on all sides. I believe business interests will put enough pressure on all politicians to get a deal done by Oct/Nov. 
    In terms of misinformation and lies on Brexit is concerned, the lies and bullsh*t were being spouted by both sides in the debate, make no mistake.

    yeah it's been laid out multiple times to you...

    it's your choice to blithely ignore what's been said directly to you
    As I understand it, the reason people are outraged about it is because the UK carved up countries in history, so it's ironic that the UK should try to prevent itself being carved up.

    What do you expect her to say? "Sure carve us up lads, and have a nice glass of chianti and some farva beans while you're at it Mr. Juncker!"


  • #51
    corks finest
    Registered Users Posts: 8,625 ✭✭✭corks finest


    It is 26/6


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  • #52
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    I think our government and civil service are doing a mighty job so far in representing the views of the Republic. They must be some tough negotiations.


  • #53
    jiltloop
    Registered Users Posts: 2,182 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Deleted User wrote: »
    jiltloop wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    daheff wrote: »
    Deleted User wrote: »
    What is wrong with what she said? 

    She is referring to the idea of Northern Ireland being a separate customs area from the rest of the UK, i.e. effectively the UK being carved up in a way.

    I don't think she is including the Republic in this analogy.

    the irony is unbelievable.

    Gibraltar (from Spain)
    Malvinas/Falklands (from Argentina)
    Hong Kong (from China)
    Iraq/Syria/Israel (from Turkish empire after WW1)

    just a couple of quick carve ups by the uk (without even thinking too hard about it).
    And obviously you agree with May that carving up countries is wrong no?
    This is what they voted for.
    They didn't vote for Brexit so that NI would have a separate customs union. Simply false.
    The voters and probrexit politicians were short sighted and willfully mislead. This was all very likely if they had projected their thoughts just a little bit. Which they should have done since it was such a huge decision.


  • #54
    ToddyDoody
    Registered Users Posts: 4,421 ✭✭✭ToddyDoody


    screamer wrote: »
    Ireland being carved up again... And the blueshirts in power again...ah sure just give the whole lot back to England....

    Who says you can't be republican and make a balls of the country :)


  • #55
    skooterblue2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,816 ✭✭✭skooterblue2


    Silent Running wrote: »
    A golden moment for Leo. Hands up who thinks he will take it :D

    Leo is just there to clear off the table, you dont seriously think he is going to be given a seat at the table????!!!

    Ireland is going to be represent at the highest levels at these negotiations by the EU :D


  • #56
    banie01
    Registered Users Posts: 16,434 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    The front page of a French newspaper this morning.

    We really should have a word with the French about the difference between a shamrock and a clover...
    That said!
    Isn't a green 4 leaf clover with a single covered by the Jack a lovely representation of the 4 provinces and the partition...
    The French!
    A lovely bunch of lads!

    *Thierry Henry excluded in perpetuity ��

    461840.jpg


  • #57
    Tea Shock
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 345 ✭✭Tea Shock


    D'ya think Theresa May would give the slightest balls about the separation of N. Ireland if it weren't for the fact that the DUP are keeping her in her job?

    If she hadn't made a complete **** up by calling a general election and then another complete **** up of the election campaign itself, the DUP would have had no influence whatsoever and a border down the Irish sea would have been rubber stamped months ago!


  • #58
    The Rape of Lucretia
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Deebles McBeebles wrote: »
    I just liked the insult, "Rapey". I might have to commandeer that word.

    I just find it a little over familiar rather than insulting.


  • #59
    riffmongous
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    Tea Shock wrote: »
    D'ya think Theresa May would give the slightest balls about the separation of N. Ireland if it weren't for the fact that the DUP are keeping her in her job?

    If she hadn't made a complete **** up by calling a general election and then another complete **** up of the election campaign itself, the DUP would have had no influence whatsoever and a border down the Irish sea would have been rubber stamped months ago!
    What an amazing fuk-up that turned out to be


  • #60
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,943 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I find it strange that many folk in the 26 believe that those in the 6 are not as Irish as they are.

    You'd think Ireland was never one country before.


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  • #61
    Rawr
    Registered Users Posts: 3,738 ✭✭✭Rawr


    I made the attached comic when Brexit happened...

    ...I never thought it could be relevant again :D


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