Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

The Journal- house buying propaganda

  • 11-02-2019 9:17am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭Zenify


    The articles about "how I spend my money" seem to be all focused on people saving to buy a home. The latest one takes up the entire first paragraph about saving for a mortgage from the time they graduated college.

    I understand The Journal has a sister business in the property world but could they be using this media to push an agenda?

    The articles say : I'm smart and frugal so I can buy before 30 and "rent is dead money" etc etc. Not the normal view of people in their early 20s in my view. Obv these people exist but nearly every article has been one of these people.

    Be conscious of this when you are next reading them and let me know what you think?


«1

Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,570 ✭✭✭Ulysses Gaze


    Zenify wrote: »
    The articles about "how I spend my money" seem to be all focused on people saving to buy a home. The latest one takes up the entire first paragraph about saving for a mortgage from the time they graduated college.

    I understand The Journal has a sister business in the property world but could they be using this media to push an agenda?

    The articles say : I'm smart and frugal so I can buy before 30 and "rent is dead money" etc etc. Not the normal view of people in their early 20s in my view. Obv these people exist but nearly every article has been one of these people.

    Be conscious of this when you are next reading them and let me know what you think?

    Not that Gob****ery again? I would have thought people would have learned from the boom/bust cycle.

    Rent is dead money as is the whopping great interest you pay on a mortgage for the first 5/6 years. You don't even touch the capital.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,635 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Not that Gob****ery again? I would have thought people would have learned from the boom/bust cycle.

    Rent is dead money as is the whopping great interest you pay on a mortgage for the first 5/6 years. You don't even touch the capital.

    Rent, for the most part, is dead money.

    That never changed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    It could be phrased better but it's essentially true. Even you're paying a lot of interest on the loan, you own the property when the mortgage is paid. You don't eventually own the rental property.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,205 ✭✭✭cruizer101


    Rent is dead money as is the whopping great interest you pay on a mortgage for the first 5/6 years. You don't even touch the capital.

    Its not quite that bad these days with low interest rates. On my own at 2.6% will have payed 2.3% off by the end of the year. Sounds low but considering if you were paying purely capital over 30 years it would be only 3.3% per year its not bad. With some overpayments that can be brought up, hoping myself to pay about 3.5% of it, and thats not massive overpayments.

    Back to the OP, I don't doubt much of the media has quite the interest in increasing property prices and a lot of their content reflects that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 262 ✭✭ Spleerbun


    Zenify wrote: »
    The articles about "how I spend my money" seem to be all focused on people saving to buy a home. The latest one takes up the entire first paragraph about saving for a mortgage from the time they graduated college.

    I understand The Journal has a sister business in the property world but could they be using this media to push an agenda?

    The articles say : I'm smart and frugal so I can buy before 30 and "rent is dead money" etc etc. Not the normal view of people in their early 20s in my view. Obv these people exist but nearly every article has been one of these people.

    Be conscious of this when you are next reading them and let me know what you think?

    I have indeed noticed that those articles are heavily geared towards promoting house ownership, but it could be more a case where it's only the people that way inclined in the first place would be bothered doing a "money diary" and sending it in to them in the first place.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭GavMan


    Not that Gob****ery again? I would have thought people would have learned from the boom/bust cycle.

    Rent is dead money as is the whopping great interest you pay on a mortgage for the first 5/6 years. You don't even touch the capital.

    Well, someone has advanced you (typically) several hundred thousand quid in good faith. Not unreasonable that they would seek to make their profit back early.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,097 ✭✭✭piplip87


    Yes there has been no 20 something on 25,000 who enjoys going out and getting smashed at the weekend. Nobody with kids who spends time going to the cinema, nobody with any craic at all.

    Would love to see Magerat Cashes week


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,592 Mod ✭✭✭✭riffmongous


    It's a sad read to see someone so obsessed about money and buying a house at such a young age. Life is for living


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Better Index


    Zenify wrote: »
    The articles about "how I spend my money" seem to be all focused on people saving to buy a home. The latest one takes up the entire first paragraph about saving for a mortgage from the time they graduated college.

    I understand The Journal has a sister business in the property world but could they be using this media to push an agenda?

    The articles say : I'm smart and frugal so I can buy before 30 and "rent is dead money" etc etc. Not the normal view of people in their early 20s in my view. Obv these people exist but nearly every article has been one of these people.

    Be conscious of this when you are next reading them and let me know what you think?

    Care to detail how would TheJournal and or Daft benefit from this "propaganda"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    Every media outlet has an agenda, the secret is to find out what it is and then to view their news through this lens. Given the Journal and Daft have the same owners it's not surprising that there is a focus on property sales, that's what pays the bills.

    Once you realise this then you can make allowances for their bias.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I'm not against long therm renting but not the way it's done in Ireland. There is infinitely bigger security in owning a home in Ireland, especially once you have a family. Also I wouldn't want to rent if the only income is state pension and you have to rely on housing benefits. Until long therm renting becomes more prevalent in Ireland and the legislation changes renting is risky. That doesn't mean that you have to buy a house straight away but it is prudent to start saving for a deposit in your twenties. It might be sad but in my opinion it's better to save a bit in 20ies than live on a breadline in your seventies.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,460 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    It's a sad read to see someone so obsessed about money and buying a house at such a young age. Life is for living

    Maybe they enjoy it?

    I didn't consciously save from when I left college and started working but I was always frugal and was able to buy a house in my 20s in Dublin.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,460 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    Not that Gob****ery again? I would have thought people would have learned from the boom/bust cycle.

    Rent is dead money as is the whopping great interest you pay on a mortgage for the first 5/6 years. You don't even touch the capital.

    It's still the cheapest credit you will ever get.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭LirW


    piplip87 wrote: »
    Yes there has been no 20 something on 25,000 who enjoys going out and getting smashed at the weekend. Nobody with kids who spends time going to the cinema, nobody with any craic at all.

    Would love to see Magerat Cashes week

    There was a guy on a pretty high salary on recently enough who stated he enjoys renting for the moment and also splashed LOADS of money on pints and take-away.

    But maybe this is the reality for many young people, they often live at home because rent is too expensive (honestly not every person is made for the houseshare situation either mentally or due to other circumstances).
    Parents work long hours to make ends meet, young people don't see how they'll ever get out of renting, it's grim enough as it is.

    I find it depressing how many people work crazy long hours when you add the commute, are permanently exhausted and have really crappy and unadventurous diets. For real, a lot of them live off coffee shops, take aways and a repertoire of 3 dishes that they cook in rotation.
    All of it in order to save a bit aside to go on a holiday or maybe have a rainy day fund.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Better Index


    gandalf wrote: »
    Every media outlet has an agenda, the secret is to find out what it is and then to view their news through this lens. Given the Journal and Daft have the same owners it's not surprising that there is a focus on property sales, that's what pays the bills.

    Once you realise this then you can make allowances for their bias.

    And what bias is that? What allowances must be made in order to counter their bias so that no one falls into this intricate trap that they have seemingly laid out? No organization is going to push their "propaganda" without an end goal in mind. They don't do things just for the ****s and giggles. What is the benefit they stand to receive?


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,042 ✭✭✭Wabbit Ears


    And what bias is that? What allowances must be made in order to counter their bias so that no one falls into this intricate trap that they have seemingly laid out? No organization is going to push their "propaganda" without an end goal in mind. They don't do things just for the ****s and giggles. What is the benefit they stand to receive?


    seriously? you cant work out the benefit they get in promoting house purchases and starting out your journey towards that end early and them owning the largest house buying website in the country?

    Pro tip: the answer is literally in the question.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    It's not compulsory to spend every single cent you earn in your twenties on having a good time. There is a middle ground here, if you have money to spare (on anything), you don't have to prioritize one particular thing 100% of the time.

    It makes sense for long term security and happiness to look after your financial future if at all possible. Pensions are important, if you want to buy a house then savings are too. It's nice to fritter away your twenties on making memories, but it leads to a tough decade in your thirties when you have zero financial cushion and are looking to start from the bottom up.

    Bit of both where it's possible. Life is for living but you're still living once you go over thirty and a bit of planning will make the rest of your life much more comfortable, assuming you can afford to squirrel away anything. If you find yourself with a decent disposable income that vanishes with nothing to show for it month after month for an entire decade, you're being foolish with your money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,500 ✭✭✭BrokenArrows


    Not that Gob****ery again? I would have thought people would have learned from the boom/bust cycle.

    Rent is dead money as is the whopping great interest you pay on a mortgage for the first 5/6 years. You don't even touch the capital.

    There is nothing wrong with renting for your whole life but you have to make sure you know how you're going to pay the rent when you're 70+.

    So a 20 year old today paying 1k a month will be paying close to 3k a month in 50 years time for the same accommodation.

    In that 50 years they will have paid over 1 million in rent.

    The home owner who took out a mortgage for a 300k house will have paid off 600k but then owns the house.

    The economics are clear.

    EDIT: Even with the huge scare word "negative equity" they are still better off repaying the mortgage over 20/30 years even if the house is worth a fraction of what they paid for it or even zero. They still have somewhere to live at the end of the day. After 50 years of paying rent you own nothing and will be kicked out on your ass as soon as you stop paying rent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,739 ✭✭✭scamalert


    seriously? you cant work out the benefit they get in promoting house purchases and starting out your journey towards that end early and them owning the largest house buying website in the country?

    Pro tip: the answer is literally in the question.


    issue isnt promoting buying houses that crap has been done well enough in 2008, people still buy well overpriced houses every day.


    problem is that main jobs are centered towards Dublin and few other towns, leaving many trapped in position where they should buy, then theres issue with job stability can one be sure they will be working for 30yrs+ and keep up with payments.


    Infrastructure is done $hite contributing to long commutes just to make ends meet, outside cities.


    Many places to buy for decent price but f all work in them areas and no stability, thats real issues that people have to work around and think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,001 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    GavMan wrote: »
    Well, someone has advanced you (typically) several hundred thousand quid in good faith. Not unreasonable that they would seek to make their profit back early.

    Not if you live in strokestown


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Ush1 wrote: »
    It's still the cheapest credit you will ever get.

    It's a lower rate than a shorter term loan but it's still the most expensive credit you will ever get not the cheapest.

    Example, borrow €1000 @ 10% and you'll end up paying back (very) roughly €1200 over a 2-5 year term.

    Borrow €300,000 @ 3% and you'll probably end up paying back around €600,000.

    So the effective interest rate on the credit of the 2nd example is more like 100%. Therefore saying it's the cheapest credit you will ever get is clearly BS.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,460 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    jiltloop wrote: »
    It's a lower rate than a shorter term loan but it's still the most expensive credit you will ever get not the cheapest.

    Example, borrow €1000 @ 10% and you'll end up paying back (very) roughly €1200 over a 2-5 year term.

    Borrow €300,000 @ 3% and you'll probably end up paying back around €600,000.

    So the effective interest rate on the credit of the 2nd example is more like 100%. Therefore saying it's the cheapest credit you will ever get is clearly BS.

    Cheapest credit is in terms of the APR. You can get a mortgage for 5 years or 40 years. It will also depend on your deposit. You can also overpay a mortgage during the term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,067 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    LirW wrote: »
    There was a guy on a pretty high salary on recently enough who stated he enjoys renting for the moment and also splashed LOADS of money on pints and take-away.

    But maybe this is the reality for many young people, they often live at home because rent is too expensive (honestly not every person is made for the houseshare situation either mentally or due to other circumstances).
    Parents work long hours to make ends meet, young people don't see how they'll ever get out of renting, it's grim enough as it is.

    I find it depressing how many people work crazy long hours when you add the commute, are permanently exhausted and have really crappy and unadventurous diets. For real, a lot of them live off coffee shops, take aways and a repertoire of 3 dishes that they cook in rotation.
    All of it in order to save a bit aside to go on a holiday or maybe have a rainy day fund.

    Reading those articles I felt sad for the people who commute hours from outside dublin, just so they can save for a house outside dublin. They hate their commutes but there's no work near home, they can't afford to rent or buy closer.

    I fully understand the desire to buy here. It's simply not tenable to rent in Ireland long term. If you want any sort of security it's the only way to go.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,180 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Cheapest credit is in terms of the APR. You can get a mortgage for 5 years or 40 years. It will also depend on your deposit. You can also overpay a mortgage during the term.

    Which isn't realistic for the vast majority of people getting mortgages so it's basically a moot point.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 302 ✭✭RFOLEY1990


    of course Rent is dead money, especially when the rental laws aren't as favourable to the tenant over here,

    out with nothing more than a few month's notice.

    people are forced to rent because it's next to impossible for them to raise a deposit and pay rent at the same time

    not everyone has the option to continue living with parents into their late 20s/30s

    even if you can prove you're capable of paying a mortgage you still can't get a mortgage (not that I agree with 100% mortgages)

    forcing people out of the capital where majority work to then have to be away from their kids for 12/14 hours a day

    why not do have affordable accommodation for workers in the city and move the people who don't work out?


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,460 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    jiltloop wrote: »
    Which isn't realistic for the vast majority of people getting mortgages so it's basically a moot point.

    It's apt for people to bare in mind when talking about fear of mortgages. This thread is about what's realistic for people and what's clear is many people have unrealistic expectations of the lifestyle they're entitled to.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 827 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Better Index


    seriously? you cant work out the benefit they get in promoting house purchases and starting out your journey towards that end early and them owning the largest house buying website in the country?

    Pro tip: the answer is literally in the question.

    Holy crap, I never thought I'd see the day when flat earthers and anti-vaxxers make more sense!

    tenor.gif?itemid=10587157

    That argument is the weakest argument I have come across in a long time.

    The Journal can write articles about buying a house every single day till they go bankrupt and Daft will not see any statistically significant rise in revenue as you so strongly (and incorrectly) believe. Do you think Daft gets commission from house sales and rentals?!?

    Pro tip: take the tinfoil hat off.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    If rent is dead money does that mean payment for any service is dead money?

    Rent is currently too expensive for sure but I've never understood the dead money thing. It's a service - you've got to pay for it until you can afford an alternative.


  • Posts: 26,052 ✭✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    If rent is dead money does that mean payment for any service is dead money?

    I think it's more a case that the alternative to paying rent is a mortgage that gives you ownership of an appreciating asset, and paying for other services isn't comparable since there isn't really an alternative.

    If you pay an electrician or a gas fitter, it's because there's no alternative to their expertise but there is an alternative to rent if you can get a mortgage.

    I know what you're saying though, a roof over your head shouldn't be considered dead money since it's a vital requirement.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 32,802 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    Rent isn't dead money.

    You are paying money for a service, you are getting a service.

    That's like saying gym membership is dead money, or car insurance is dead money.


Advertisement