Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all,
Vanilla are planning an update to the site on April 24th (next Wednesday). It is a major PHP8 update which is expected to boost performance across the site. The site will be down from 7pm and it is expected to take about an hour to complete. We appreciate your patience during the update.
Thanks all.

Willie Frazer has died

13567…21

Comments

  • #62
    andekwarhola
    Registered Users Posts: 4,638 ✭✭✭andekwarhola


    Amidst all the homilies, it should be pointed out that to be as spectacularly unreconstructed as Frazier in the current NI era, where even old loyalist firebrands like Paisley - optics or otherwise - went into Stormont with Marty and even Arlene hides behind a patina of inclusivity - suggests that his background was merely an accoutrement to his mindset rather than the actuation.

    My honest feeling is that the Republicans publicy being sanctimonious about 'respect' are just engaging in some kind of unctuous decency oneupmanship wth Loyalists and that they are all gleefuly sharing Willie Death memes in whataspp groups.


  • #63
    armaghlad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,660 ✭✭✭armaghlad


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Amidst all the homilies, it should be pointed out that to be as spectacularly
    My honest feeling is that the Republicans publicy being sanctimonious about 'respect' are just engaging in some kind of unctuous decency oneupmanship wth Loyalists and that they are all gleefuly sharing Willie Death memes in whataspp groups.
    Hmm, you’re well off the mark. As a Republican, I despised the man and anyone who shared his views (most Loyalists); am I happy he’s dead? No. I won’t lose any sleep either don’t get me wrong, but I think you’re barking up the wrong tree. Most people, other than the band of nutjobs who subscribed to Willie’s brand of extreme Loyalism are indifferent to his passing but are offering sympathy to his widow and remaining family


  • #64
    PressRun
    Registered Users Posts: 3,125 ✭✭✭PressRun


    Never understood the "both sides were as bad as each other" stuff. Republican violence, as extreme as it was, was born out of genuine mistreatment at the hands of police, British army and loyalist politicians who wanted desperately to sustain the status quo and treat nationalists as second class citizens. Willie Frazer was one of those people. I accept the hurt and anger he must have carried as a result of losing his father, but he was determined to drag things backwards and had no intention of meeting anyone halfway and honestly that is representative of a lot of those involved in the DUP and suchlike. They don't want to talk to anyone or compromise on anything. Republicans have been far more willing to sit at the negotiating table over the years. Hardcore loyalists have poisoned the discourse more often than not and the sooner they disappear from the scene the better.


  • #65
    Gimme A Pound
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    PressRun wrote: »
    Never understood the "both sides were as bad as each other" stuff.
    Even Kevin Myers - that mouthpiece for republicanism ;) - has conceded that that's bollox.

    People here in the republic feel obliged to be more scathing of republicanism (even, as I said, being forgiving of David Ervine but not Martin McGuinness) - maybe in order to show how distanced they are from it, but sometimes due, I suspect, to being just not that informed, and buying the narrative that the conflict was pretty much republican derived.


  • #66
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Willie’s outlook was shaped by the fact that his father, two uncles, two cousins and a brother-in-law were all murdered by republicans during the Troubles. Willie Frazer may have been a vocal campaigner for victims of Republican violence, but as someone else said, he never pulled a trigger or planted a bomb in his life - that is what the real divisive people did. The truly divisive people are the one that divided families by pulling the trigger and planting bombs, they are the ones that left empty chairs at kitchen tables.


  • Advertisement
  • #67
    simongurnick
    Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭simongurnick


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Willie’s outlook was shaped by the fact that his father, two uncles, two cousins and a brother-in-law were all murdered by republicans during the Troubles. Willie Frazer may have been a vocal campaigner for victims of Republican violence, but as someone else said, he never pulled a trigger or planted a bomb in his life - that is what the real divisive people did. The truly divisive people are the one that divided families by pulling the trigger and planting bombs, they are the ones that left empty chairs at kitchen tables.

    The rhetoric encourages others to kill though...similar to paisley. No loss.


  • #68
    Woodsie1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 949 ✭✭✭Woodsie1


    jesus AH standards are slipping....I thought it was all bout the meme's

    tenor.gif?itemid=11845032


  • #69
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    Even Kevin Myers - that mouthpiece for republicanism ;) - has conceded that that's bollox.

    People here in the republic feel obliged to be more scathing of republicanism (even, as I said, being forgiving of David Ervine but not Martin McGuinness) - maybe in order to show how distanced they are from it, but sometimes due, I suspect, to being just not that informed, and buying the narrative that the conflict was pretty much republican derived.

    Not a SF voter but the southern media has always demanded far too little of unionism, unionism has never been expected to atone for anything


  • #70
    Peatys
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,881 ✭✭✭Peatys


    andekwarhola wrote: »
    Amidst all the homilies, it should be pointed out that to be as spectacularly unreconstructed as Frazier in the current NI era, where even old loyalist firebrands like Paisley - optics or otherwise - went into Stormont with Marty and even Arlene hides behind a patina of inclusivity - suggests that his background was merely an accoutrement to his mindset rather than the actuation.

    My honest feeling is that the Republicans publicy being sanctimonious about 'respect' are just engaging in some kind of unctuous decency oneupmanship wth Loyalists and that they are all gleefuly sharing Willie Death memes in whataspp groups.

    Grammerly can only fix so much


  • #71
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Fan of Netflix wrote: »
    BS when Seamus McGrane died recently loyalists were salivating online even Rangers fans in Scotland spewing bile....

    And it was even worse when Martin McElkerney killed himself in May. It was like Christmas in PUL circles. Its actually a very regular thing from PUL community.

    Ignore them so, rather than fetishising such sorry goings on.


  • Advertisement
  • #72
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    simongurnick wrote: »
    The rhetoric encourages others to kill though...similar to paisley. No loss.

    He was a victims campaigner and had 6 close relatives killed / murdered by Republicans. He highlighted the campaign of ethnic cleansing along the border, and many death threats were made against him. Do you think the Kingsmill atrocity was right, when 10 innocent protestants were murdered, was right for example?


  • #73
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Gimme A Pound wrote: »
    People here in the republic feel obliged to be more scathing of republicanism (even, as I said, being forgiving of David Ervine but not Martin McGuinness) - maybe in order to show how distanced they are from it, but sometimes due, I suspect, to being just not that informed, and buying the narrative that the conflict was pretty much republican derived.

    The Loyalist rabble never purported to commit acts of violence in our name.

    Simple as.


  • #74
    Fan of Netflix
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    janfebmar wrote: »

    He was a victims campaigner and had 6 close relatives killed / murdered by Republicans. He highlighted the campaign of ethnic cleansing along the border, and many death threats were made against him. Do you think the Kingsmill atrocity was right, when 10 innocent protestants were murdered, was right for example?


    Ethnic cleansing ffs, do you know how laughable that sounds coming from loyalists. Ulster Plantation that was ethnic cleansing, and even now they celebrate it.


  • #75
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,249 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Hamsterchops wrote: »
    No class at all, but there does seem to be quite a few hard-line Republicans on here, more than one would expect given their minority view.

    When Adams dies many thousands North & South would be sorely tempted to rejoice, but hopefully most of us won't, even though he's a nasty piece of work to most of us (outside Republican circles).

    Adams although he should admit he was in the IRA did quite a bit to get the peace process over the line, Frazer on the other hand was a waste of space who did nothing only spew hateful bile out of his mouth.


  • #76
    The Satanist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 693 ✭✭✭The Satanist


    janfebmar wrote: »


    He was a victims campaigner and had 6 close relatives killed / murdered by Republicans. He highlighted the campaign of ethnic cleansing along the border, and many death threats were made against him. Do you think the Kingsmill atrocity was right, when 10 innocent protestants were murdered, was right for example?

    All 6 were members of various branches of crown forces. No loss.

    Do you think the Glenanne gang were right? Or the night before Kingsmill? Or are we going to ignore any context? Do you think Willie has some share of the blame for the murder of the Quinn boys? He was a big fan of the Portadown orange order, was wee Willie , the ex- British army member.


  • #77
    Oasis1974
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,077 ✭✭✭Oasis1974


    58 years to late....


  • #78
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Sky Blue 20 wrote: »
    Strange that the Repulicans show no class on the death of a person. Infact it's not strange at all.
    When the sainted Martin died he was plauded by Unionists even though he was a mass murderer.
    Class can't be bought.

    I think you'll find any person with common sense mourned the death of McGuiness and Irvine equally. Both had the respect of a broad range of people and brought their electorate in a positive direction. Others unfortunately don't, but only an utter gob****e would gloat at the death of somebody from cancer.


  • #79
    FTA69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,252 ✭✭✭FTA69


    janfebmar wrote: »


    He was a victims campaigner and had 6 close relatives killed / murdered by Republicans. He highlighted the campaign of ethnic cleansing along the border, and many death threats were made against him. Do you think the Kingsmill atrocity was right, when 10 innocent protestants were murdered, was right for example?

    Victims campaigner my hole. He had no bother associating with Loyalist paramilitaries, something even the cops said publically, and he himself was a member of an armed protagonist in the conflict; as were all his relatives. (With a good chance they too were either members or supporters of Loyalist paramilitaries.)

    I’m not going to gloat over anyone’s death; but let’s not be rewriting history to say he was a decent moral chap standing up for the innocent because his narrative of who was and wasn’t a ‘victim’ was very skewed indeed.

    And there was no ‘ethnic cleansing’ on the border that’s a pile of b*llocks if I ever heard it.

    EDIT - he also attended the funeral of one of the Glennane gang; the owner of the farm from which attacks were launched resulting in the death of 129 civilians; stating “he wasn’t lily white but he was a decent man.”


  • #80
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    janfebmar wrote: »


    He was a victims campaigner and had 6 close relatives killed / murdered by Republicans. He highlighted the campaign of ethnic cleansing along the border, and many death threats were made against him. Do you think the Kingsmill atrocity was right, when 10 innocent protestants were murdered, was right for example?

    Bullsh1t....his victim support group wouldnt represent innocent catholics killed in troubles


    How is that right


  • #81
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    When evaluationing someone's legacy you have to view the journey their life took.
    Even Paisley is know a respected figure due to his change of outlook which resulted in a power sharing government and friendship with those he would one-time seen as the enemy.


  • Advertisement
  • #82
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Sky Blue 20 wrote: »
    Strange that the Repulicans show no class on the death of a person. Infact it's not strange at all.
    When the sainted Martin died he was plauded by Unionists even though he was a mass murderer.
    Class can't be bought.

    Stop talking through your hoop lad.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/martin-mcguinness-bonfire-mary-lou-mcdonald-3504961-Jul2017/


    His comments came after a black coffin daubed with the slogan “F*** the IRA” and adorned with an image of the former IRA commander turned Stormont deputy first minister was attached to a bonfire in east Belfast
    .


  • #83
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    janfebmar wrote: »
    Willie’s outlook was shaped by the fact that his father, two uncles, two cousins and a brother-in-law were all murdered by republicans during the Troubles. Willie Frazer may have been a vocal campaigner for victims of Republican violence, but as someone else said, he never pulled a trigger or planted a bomb in his life - that is what the real divisive people did. The truly divisive people are the one that divided families by pulling the trigger and planting bombs, they are the ones that left empty chairs at kitchen tables.

    You'll be making hang sanger's for the wake Mary, yeah?


  • #84
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Willie clearly had hatred issues.

    But he at least had good reason. If one of our parents were killed would we turn the other cheek?

    And those that are spouting bile against this man. Well, what's your excuse for acting like him?


  • #85
    Fan of Netflix
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,167 ✭✭✭Fan of Netflix


    Chinese whospers wrote: »
    Willie clearly had hatred issues.

    But he at least had good reason. If one of our parents were killed would we turn the other cheek?

    And those that are spouting bile against this man. Well, what's your excuse for acting like him?
    Wasn't his father killed because he was involved in the murder of two innocent Catholics coming from a GAA match? He was killed in response to that I believe. A Ministry of Defence document also stated Bertie Frazer was involved the notorious Glenanne Gang.


  • #86
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭[Deleted User]


    Fan of Netflix wrote: »
    Wasn't his father killed because he was involved in the murder of two innocent Catholics coming from a GAA match? He was killed in response to that I believe. A Ministry of Defence document also stated Bertie Frazer was involved the notorious Glenanne Gang.


    And, if that's the case... While making it more complicated it still doesn't take away from his father being killed. I'm not saying Willie was a saint, but those calling for him to burn in hell are as bad as him.


  • #87
    _blaaz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,646 ✭✭✭_blaaz


    Chinese whospers wrote: »
    And, if that's the case... While making it more complicated it still doesn't take away from his father being killed. I'm not saying Willie was a saint, but those calling for him to burn in hell are as bad as him.

    Tbh its hard to condemn someone for killing a member of the glenane gang...a group thats less known publically tham shankil butchers...but implicated in something like 140 murders



    That being said frazier had obvious mental health issues caused by grief inflicted to him and his family....its therapy he needed,not a platform to spread hatred


  • #88
    El Weirdo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,646 ✭✭✭✭El Weirdo


    janfebmar wrote: »


    He was a victims campaigner and had 6 close relatives killed / murdered by Republicans.

    His father was in the UDR and also very likely a member of the Glennane gang.


  • #89
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    Jaysus, folks....I've had my share of digs at Willie over the years, online and in person, but what is there to be gained from taking digs at his death?

    I can't say much positive about the chap, but perhaps it's better to say nothing than to jump in with some, 'glad he's dead' nonsense?

    No need to pull the fake sentimentality and elevate him to something he wasn't, but let his loved ones grieve in peace.


  • #90
    retalivity
    Registered Users Posts: 13,989 ✭✭✭✭retalivity


    Fionn1952 wrote: »
    Jaysus, folks....I've had my share of digs at Willie over the years, online and in person, but what is there to be gained from taking digs at his death?

    I can't say much positive about the chap, but perhaps it's better to say nothing than to jump in with some, 'glad he's dead' nonsense?

    No need to pull the fake sentimentality and elevate him to something he wasn't, but let his loved ones grieve in peace.

    I highly doubt any of the frazer family read an irish bulletin board site.


  • Advertisement
  • #91
    Fionn1952
    Registered Users Posts: 3,355 ✭✭✭Fionn1952


    retalivity wrote: »
    I highly doubt any of the frazer family read an irish bulletin board site.

    Well I know for a fact that at least one of his closer friends lurks on here. Why would you be surprised to find that some of his family and friends do?

    It's not like there arent any Unionist/Loyalists from the North on here like.


Advertisement