Journalism and cycling

endagibson · 05-10-2016 9:01pm

ThisRegard wrote: »

The Cork councillor on talking about it actually said "They don't even pay insurance". Pleb.

This guy probably doesn't even understand why he should have insurance beyond it being a legal requirement.

It's hammerheads like this that make me glad that insurance for motor vehicles is a condition of public road usage.

robyntmorton · 05-10-2016 9:11pm

Chuchote wrote: »

And more people cycling will mean fewer people going to hospital with <snip> hypertension<snip>. And fewer people driving will mean fewer people going to hospital with pollution-induced bronchitis and asthma.

I'll try to keep my data out of the statistics then. Cyclist who attends regularly to deal with hypertension, every couple of months at the moment. Probably will be attending for a very long time, as I am under 30.

Beasty · 05-10-2016 9:33pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

It could have been stolen when it crashed into you (although that wouldn't explain why it wasn't insured unless it was kept off public roads by the owner).

I suspect that anyone attempting to use that as a defence may have had to actually report it as stolen, certainly given it's now 2 months since the "incident". Was at the relevant Garda station making a statement last week and there was no suggestion a theft had been reported.

Rokta · 05-10-2016 9:38pm

The chances to catch them are slim. Mine was a hit and run too except the driver left a bit more behind than just the number plate. You are lucky to have that, as far as I understand the process, you can only claim through the MIBI if you are able to identify the car that hit you.

Chuchote · 05-10-2016 9:46pm

robyntmorton wrote: »

I'll try to keep my data out of the statistics then. Cyclist who attends regularly to deal with hypertension, every couple of months at the moment. Probably will be attending for a very long time, as I am under 30.

Naah, there are some people whose illnesses are not caused by environmental factors - for instance, I have familial high-bad-cholesterol-low-good-cholesterol; diet and exercise doesn't control it. Natural-health friends are constantly trying to get me to go off statins and onto the coenzyme Q10…

But the number of people who have asthma or heart disease or diabetes or hypertension because of environmental factors is high. It's the same thing with smoking. The fact that you'll often meet people whose granny lived to 109 while living on a healthful diet of Major and Jameson's doesn't mean smoking doesn't kill its victims.

Beasty wrote: »

2 grand worth of damage to the car, whiplash for me, and setting my wider recovery back 12 months or so when my car was rammed (twice!) by an uninsured driver a couple of months back. Sorry guys but I'm another "claimant" that will end up pushing up the cost of motor insurance for everyone

The insurance companies have been maundering on about this nonsense for years. It used to be juries setting compensation - the justice system obligingly got rid of juries in insurance cases; the awards didn't go down, because if your body is wrecked, and maybe an expensive car too, it's going to cost a lot to fix it.

Are there any countries that do car insurance differently, for instance by putting it on the petrol?

By the way, the uninsuredness doesn't have to be dishonesty by the owner, it can be the gob****e factor; I sold a car many years ago and the buyer demanded the logbook. I had a vague idea I was supposed to send it in, but didn't know that this was an absolute legal requirement, and just handed it over.

Rokta · 05-10-2016 10:08pm

I am not aware of any countries that do it differently, just the process of making sure drivers have insurance is different. In Germany for example you are not able to register your car without showing proof of insurance, in Ireland you have to enter it on the website, however it seems to be I can just enter my membership number for the local book club and it just works fine. Also insurance companies notify the car registration office once the insurance has been cancelled and thus your registration for the car is nil. Here you do not even have to register the car if you buy it privately and nobody really notices it because of the log book shenanigans.

This works in Germany as you are buying your car always without number plates and registering the car is the process of getting new plates. Here the plates stay with the car.

Wishbone Ash · 05-10-2016 10:11pm

Chuchote wrote: »

....Are there any countries that do car insurance differently, for instance by putting it on the petrol?....

Are you confusing it with tax? I can't see how insurance could be incorporated into fuel as there would be no way of assessing/penalising re risk. I've never had a claim yet I'd be paying the same as a boy racer.

magicbastarder · 05-10-2016 10:13pm

south africa load third party insurance onto petrol. so you can't drive uninsured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Accident_Fund

robyntmorton · 05-10-2016 10:14pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Naah, there are some people whose illnesses are not caused by environmental factors - for instance, I have familial high-bad-cholesterol-low-good-cholesterol; diet and exercise doesn't control it. Natural-health friends are constantly trying to get me to go off statins and onto the coenzyme Q10…

You're right there. I unfortunately have secondary hypertension caused by a kidney complaint. Nothing environmental about it.

Chuchote · 05-10-2016 10:23pm

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Are you confusing it with tax? I can't see how insurance could be incorporated into fuel as there would be no way of assessing/penalising re risk. I've never had a claim yet I'd be paying the same as a boy racer.

But maybe the correct approach is to tackle the boy racers legally? And indeed maybe that would be more likely to happen if insurance was paid through petrol. And you're paying for the boy racers anyway because they don't pay insurance

buffalo · 06-10-2016 7:15am

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-motorists-1.2818150

It's somewhat emasculating when someone not only writes the same letter as you, but communicates your points far more effectively. He is from the School of Communications though, so I'll let him have it.

Wishbone Ash · 06-10-2016 7:49am

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-motorists-1.2818150

It's somewhat emasculating when someone not only writes the same letter as you, but communicates your points far more effectively. He is from the School of Communications though, so I'll let him have it.

But unfortunately, he tears the arse out of an otherwise good letter with the following glaring error:

Motor tax is a tax on using a mechanically propelled vehicle (whether on-road or off-road) and reflects the negative externalities associated with the use of such vehicles (primarily pollution).

There is no requirement to tax a vehicle which is not used on public roads regardless of how much pollution it causes - hence the reason so many refer to it as 'road tax'.

buffalo · 06-10-2016 8:21am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

There is no requirement to tax a vehicle which is not used on public roads regardless of how much pollution it causes - hence the reason so many refer to it as 'road tax'.

The very first FAQ on the motor tax website says:

Liability for motor tax arises when a vehicle is used in a public place/road

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/staticContent.do?page=faq

So public off-road areas would be included - I don't think it's the glaring error you think it is.

Wishbone Ash · 06-10-2016 8:28am

buffalo wrote: »

The very first FAQ on the motor tax website says:

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/staticContent.do?page=faq

So public off-road areas would be included - I don't think it's the glaring error you think it is.

Public off road which is very limited. By 'off road' most people mean private property.

endagibson · 06-10-2016 9:11am

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

But unfortunately, he tears the arse out of an otherwise good letter with the following glaring error:

There is no requirement to tax a vehicle which is not used on public roads regardless of how much pollution it causes - hence the reason so many refer to it as 'road tax'.

I disagree. I tax my car and it spends approximately 5 out of 7 days in my private driveway every week.

If I wanted to officially take it off the road, I'd have to do it at least a month in advance, coinciding with the date that my present tax disc expires as I don't think there's any way to get a refund of less than three months worth.

The off road period is supposed to be at least three months I think, but it could probably be put back on the road by taxing it again. Might need a trip to the motor tax office, which is never fun.

check_six · 06-10-2016 9:29am

OK, so just to be clear here:
To avoid paying motor tax I am entitled to claim my "cyclists don't pay road tax" allowance?
Likewise, to avoid paying insurance all I have to do is hang some furry dice on my rear view mirror, and wear a dodgy baseball hat?

The cost of my occasional motoring is plummeting!

Chuchote · 06-10-2016 9:42am

Seriously, just put the insurance and the tax - and indeed the cost of the first NCT though not the repeats - on to the price of fuel. Then every driver will have to pay for all of them. At the moment, you've got a load of insurance companies with lots of staff driving costs up, not to mention gardaí checking tax and insurance.

It won't cost any more because boy racers don't pay tax and insurance anyway, so those who do are effectively paying for them. And if the insurance is paid to and investigated by the State, there will quickly be a return to standard amounts for specific damage and injuries and no messing.

ThisRegard · 06-10-2016 9:56am

buffalo wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/letters/cyclists-and-motorists-1.2818150

It's somewhat emasculating when someone not only writes the same letter as you, but communicates your points far more effectively. He is from the School of Communications though, so I'll let him have it.

Great letter by him, but WTF is Anne on about?

Chuchote · 06-10-2016 10:08am

ThisRegard wrote: »

Great letter by him, but WTF is Anne on about?

I think she mistakes boasting for gurning, poor lady.

magicbastarder · 06-10-2016 10:17am

i think the concept of 'a right to talk' is being conflated with 'being within earshot'.

unless she's actually annoyed at the laws of physics.

endagibson · 06-10-2016 10:23am

Chuchote wrote: »

It won't cost any more because boy racers don't pay tax and insurance anyway

Are you sure that's true?

boardbeer · 06-10-2016 10:29am

ThisRegard wrote: »

Great letter by him, but WTF is Anne on about?

Repeal free speech rights for: cyclists, joggers, 5-a-side soccer players.

Chuchote · 06-10-2016 10:45am

endagibson wrote: »

Are you sure that's true?

By my definition of boy racers, which is those wild little lads who buy a car for €50 online, pile in en masse with their friends, drive it up to the mountains, drag-race it with other similar and then burn it out.

ThisRegard · 06-10-2016 10:57am

They'd be company car owners rather than those who would normally be seen as boy racers.

Chuchote · 06-10-2016 10:58am

ThisRegard wrote: »

They'd be company car owners rather than those who would normally be seen as boy racers.

Ah, maybe I'm misusing the term. Perhaps I should have said joyriders don't tax or insure their cars anyway.

mcgratheoin · 06-10-2016 12:14pm

boardbeer wrote: »

Repeal free speech rights for: cyclists, joggers, 5-a-side soccer players.

The irony of writing a letter to the Times complaining about whingers....

NiallBoo · 06-10-2016 12:49pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Seriously, just put the insurance and the tax - and indeed the cost of the first NCT though not the repeats - on to the price of fuel. Then every driver will have to pay for all of them.

a difficulty with this is that if fuel costs significantly more than in northern Ireland, a lot of people will just buy it there.
You'll also get raises in smuggling laundering and petrol-stretching

Chuchote wrote: »

the moment, you've got a load of insurance companies with lots of staff driving costs up, not to mention gardaí checking tax and insurance.

i think we should have traffic cameras that do this automatically anyway. I'd love to see sensorss at every traffic light and frequently along roads that check all vehicles against a database of tax, insurance, nct, non-standard plates - as well as checking for braking red lights and speeding. They could alert gardai about unreadable plates.

Chuchote wrote: »

It won't cost any more because boy racers don't pay tax and insurance anyway,

It's a mistake to think motor-tax evaders are only, or even mostly, boy racers. Sweeping statements are very tempting but in reality you get a wide range of folks not paying.

Peterx · 06-10-2016 1:17pm

NiallBoo wrote: »

a difficulty with this is that if fuel costs significantly more than in northern Ireland, a lot of people will just buy it there.
You'll also get raises in smuggling and petrol-stretching

I really think loading all the current taxes and insurances onto the fuel is the right way to do it.
Car insurance in it's current format should be scrapped and replaced with a version of the Australian/NZ registration system and then if you wish to actually insure yourself or your car above a standard third party contained within the registration then you go to an insurance company.
Hauliers could get a rebate.

NiallBoo · 06-10-2016 1:34pm

Peterx wrote: »

I really think loading all the current taxes and insurances onto the fuel is the right way to do it.
Car insurance in it's current format should be scrapped and replaced with a version of the Australian/NZ registration system and then if you wish to actually insure yourself or your car above a standard third party contained within the registration then you go to an insurance company.
Hauliers could get a rebate.

Sure it's a good idea - it's just worth considering that some of the increased revenue won't materialise.
Obviously nz and aus won't have this problem - though they could still get petrol stretching and diesel laundering.

RandomAccess · 06-10-2016 1:54pm

Chuchote wrote: »

If lawbreaking has an impact on sentiment, ok, let's start posting photos and videos of drivers using mobile phones, zipping through lights after they've turned red, whipping right around no-right-turn turns, close-passing cyclists, speeding, parking in cycle lanes, failing to indicate in time or at all, dooring, suddenly deciding they want to park on the other side of Dame Street and hanging a speedy U-ey, using bus lanes, taking to the wrong side of solid-white-line roads to pass cyclists then swinging across in front of them to turn left, blaring music that must make them unconscious of the road and its other users…
People only notice the few cyclists who act like brats because they have been fed the idea that "cyclists" break road rules.
Perhaps if they realised how little drivers keep the same rules it might soften their cough for them?

The "they're just as bad as us!" argument..

No thanks

Journalism and cycling

Comments