Journalism and cycling

rubadub · 10-05-2017 3:56pm

Chuchote wrote: »

In the case of 'events', yes, I absolutely agree with you - and in fact, that's how it normally works now, other than the D?il and Seanad and their satellites, which are cyclable anyway.

But I'm not talking about that kind of thing, but about the kind of photographers and writers who have to rush to fires and murders - often

when I spoke of events I did mean the like of fires and murders which photographers have WANT to rush to. Really annoys me seeing ambulances held up by cars illegally clogging the bus lanes on the N11, emergency services, fire engines & gardai are the ones who have to rush to fires & murders. The rest can go still, but certainly should not be getting exemptions. They just increase the price or their services/goods just like every other person has to too.

If the photographer is rushing to a store opening that was just announced is he still exempt. Has he got a yearly quota of fires or murders he must cover and prove he got work for before he can be deemed "important".

Chuchote wrote:

It's not really something we should be arguing about; the difference is clear.

not clear to me at all, not sure how you would put it in legal terms.

If your friend has to get 5 trips to prisons a week will we end up seeing people clogging up roads taking fake journeys, or going twice when he could have got the work done in 1 trip, just to keep his quota up.

Not sure if other countries with congestion charges have exempted the likes of photographers.

These are exemptions for motor tax here

The following vehicles are exempt from liability to pay vehicle motor tax:-
State-owned vehicles,

Diplomatic vehicles,

vehicles exempted under the Disabled Drivers and Disabled Passengers (Tax Concessions) Regulations, 1994 (S.I. No. 353 of 1994),

vehicles (including any cycle with an attachment for propelling it by mechanical power) not exceeding 400 kilograms in weight unladen adapted and used for invalids,

vehicles which are used exclusively for the transport (whether by carriage or traction) of lifeboats and their gear or any equipment for affording assistance towards the preservation of life and property in cases of ship-wreck and distress at sea,

vehicles which are used exclusively for mountain and cave rescue purposes,

vehicles which are used exclusively for underwater search and recovery purposes,

vehicles which are used exclusively for the transport (whether by carriage or traction) of road construction machinery which is built in as part of such vehicle or otherwise permanently attached thereto, carries no load except articles or materials used for the purpose of the road construction machinery and is used for no purpose other than the construction or repair of roads,

refuse carts, sweeping machines or watering machines used exclusively for cleansing public streets and roads,

ambulances, road-rollers or fire engines,

vehicles kept by a local authority and used exclusively for the purpose of their fire brigade service

.

Chuchote · 10-05-2017 7:25pm

rubadub wrote: »

If your friend has to get 5 trips to prisons a week will we end up seeing people clogging up roads taking fake journeys, or going twice when he could have got the work done in 1 trip, just to keep his quota up.

No, that would be five trips a day (on a quiet day) to different prisons, hospitals, courts, etc.

Some people work in offices; some have to travel from place to place to do their work.

rubadub · 10-05-2017 7:38pm

Chuchote wrote: »

No, that would be five trips a day (on a quiet day) to different prisons, hospitals, courts, etc.

Really, not sure what you are saying "No" to there?

I was talking about people having to have possible quotas to prove how important they are, if they did I believe they might take unnecessary trips to keep that quota, are you saying "no they won't".

you said your friend does 5 trips a day, my example which was completely random and totally moot was that he might have to visit 5 prisons a week (not day).

What wording do you suggest the law would have to make sure your friend would be exempt? you said the difference is clear, so it should be pretty easy to word it.

Weepsie · 10-05-2017 8:02pm

Chuchote wrote: »

No, that would be five trips a day (on a quiet day) to different prisons, hospitals, courts, etc.

Some people work in offices; some have to travel from place to place to do their work.

People in offices often have to bring lots of confidential case files and equipment. Artists might have to bring lots of equipment to somewhere they'll be for a day.

This exemption idea is nonsense for something that is not emergency or essential services

Chuchote · 11-05-2017 12:49pm

Shane Ross is promising lots of new separated cycle lanes:

http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-lanes-3382605-May2017/

New bus corridors, new cycle lanes, new tickets: Dublin's bus network to be completely redesigned

A COMPLETE REDESIGN which will “transform” Dublin’s bus network is due to be launched this month.
Speaking during a Dáil debate on a Fianna Fáil motion on Dublin transport, Transport Minister Shane Ross revealed that a number of ambitious changes to the bus network are due to be introduced.
These include “next generation” bus corridors with segregated cycling facilities and a three bus rapid transit route.

snip)

“Cycling infrastructure is an important part of the package, but the core elements of the response lie in the transformation of the bus system alongside park and ride provisions,” added Ross.

(Also new branding #headdesk)

rubadub · 11-05-2017 1:12pm

The motion calls for the expansion of the successful Dublin Bike scheme, as well as the rolling out of secure bike lockers and parking throughout the city.

That would be of interest to me. Wonder if there would be insurance with them.

HivemindXX · 11-05-2017 1:50pm

Now that it seems that Shane Ross is thinking about actually doing something we can only hope that he'll do it properly. Unfortunately I am not confident that we will get good new facilities based on the quality of the existing ones. I'd be interested to know what Ross thinks of the Liffey Cycle proposals so we'd have some idea of whether he recognises bad designs when he sees them or if he agrees with the car and business lobbies that option 8 gives us "everything we want".

I'm a little confused as to his authority over this as well. It seems that the councils have all the say in the city. What exactly can Ross do?

mcgratheoin · 11-05-2017 1:55pm

HivemindXX wrote: »

I'm a little confused as to his authority over this as well. It seems that the councils have all the say in the city. What exactly can Ross do?

What he always does - talk big and then give us a sob story about how his hands are tied and he can't actually do anything because it's not in his remit.

CramCycle · 11-05-2017 2:17pm

mcgratheoin wrote: »

What he always does - talk big and then give us a sob story about how his hands are tied and he can't actually do anything because it's not in his remit.

If he started working on what was in his remit instead of other peoples, we would be onto a good start

Chuchote · 11-05-2017 4:20pm

Velib', the Paris version of Dublin Bikes is going to be renting out electric bikes, starting in October and gradually replacing their current carthorses.

The new bikes aren't super-light (20kg as opposed to the current bicep-wrenching 22kg) but they're handier and it's a better-designed system - and for anyone thinking about getting an electric bike, this is a chance to try out what one feels like to drive:

http://www.lejdd.fr/politique/ce-quil-faut-savoir-sur-le-nouveau-velib-3326222

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-05-10/new-paris-velib-scheme-to-end-bicycle-parking-misery

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2017/4/paris-switches-velib-operator-from-jcdecaux-to-smoovengo-10129662

https://www.thelocal.fr/20170412/paris-cost-of-renting-velib-bikes-in-paris-could-soar

Chuchote · 12-05-2017 8:22am

US study finds that separated infrastructure lowers level of injuries to cyclists

https://cyclingindustry.news/physical-separation-of-cyclists-from-traffic-crucial-to-dropping-injury-rates-shows-u-s-study/

Physical separation of cyclists from traffic “crucial” to dropping injury rates, shows U.S. study
11 May, 2017 Mark Sutton
Download PDF
A new study published in the American Journal of Public Health has concluded that physical separation from motor traffic is “crucial” to reducing the higher than average cyclist injury rates seen across the U.S.

[In] the article on Boston by Pedroso et al… "the type and quality of bicycle infrastructure matter as well. It is crucial to provide physical separation from fast-moving, high-volume motor vehicle traffic and better intersection design to avoid conflicts between cyclists and motor vehicles. More and better bicycle infrastructure and safer cycling would encourage Americans to make more of their daily trips by bicycle and, thus, help raise the currently low physical activity levels of the US population.”

(snip)

Citing a further study of differing types of cycling infrastructure in Canada, the editorial writes that an 89% increase in safety was noted on streets with physical separation over streets where no such infrastructure existed. Unprotected cycling space was found to be 53% safer.

In 2014 there were 902 recorded cyclists fatalities in America and 35,206 serious injuries. Per kilometre cycled fatalities per 100 million kilometres cycled sat at 4.7. In the Netherlands and Denmark those rates sit at 1 and 1.1, respectively.

tomasrojo · 12-05-2017 10:35am

Intersection design is important. Good that it got a mention.

Helpful they included a reasonable risk comparison too (fatalities per 100 million km).

Chuchote · 12-05-2017 11:14am

tomasrojo wrote: »

Intersection design is important. Good that it got a mention.

Helpful they included a reasonable risk comparison too (fatalities per 100 million km).

The study is here:

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/pdf/10.2105/AJPH.2016.303546

Enjoy

Annie get your Run · 15-05-2017 12:51pm

Matt Cooper on Today FM is going to cover the most recent cyclist death and what can be done to make the roads safer - we might bombard him with suggestions! He's a cyclist himself and usually does a good job of putting a good case forward IMO.

Moflojo · 15-05-2017 1:00pm

The number of cycling fatalities this year has been misreported as 7, but there have been 8 deaths. The Indo has done so again today. By my recollection the figure has been misreported since the 6th fatality, which was reported as the 5th at the time.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/our-most-vulnerable-road-users-drivers-urged-to-be-cautious-as-seven-cyclists-die-on-our-roads-so-far-this-year-35716213.html

radia · 15-05-2017 2:03pm

Chuchote wrote: »

Shane Ross is promising lots of new separated cycle lanes:
http://www.thejournal.ie/bus-lanes-3382605-May2017/
(Also new branding #headdesk)

Personally I'm not a fan of separated cycle lanes.
I understand the argument that they have the potential to be a quieter, safer space for novice/timid cyclists, but:

They encourage the mindset that cyclists don't belong on the roads, worsening the 'them and us' mentality that is already at a dangerous level.
They are usually a pain in the hole to join or leave unless you've a mountain bike, as there are fixed entry and exit points. This means that either you get stuck behind someone or, if you use the road to overtake or simply maintain a brisk pace, you've a load of motorists upset that you're not in the cycle track.
Their design is usually crap (loss of priority, unnecessary detours, woeful surface, random obstacles, being dumped back out into motorised traffiic at a point where it's not expecting you etc.), yet if you use the road you've a load of motorists upset that you're not in the cycle track.
They're expensive to create and motorists feel 'their road tax' has gone to fund them, so if you use the road you've a load of motorists upset that you're not in the cycle track.
To non-cyclists they look like 'perfectly good cycle tracks' so give motorists what they perceive to be an excuse to punish those who don't use them, with close passes and worse.

Basically they perpetuate, and even worsen, the cyclist/motorist apartheid, rather than just having people - people on foot, people on bikes, people in cars...
It might be different if there was a massive budget and excellent designers, but there's not, and I feel that this is a situation where half measures are far worse than nothing.
I'd far prefer all the money spent on cycle tracks to be spent on enforcement of traffic legislation (for everyone), and education measures designed to make more people both cycle and drive (and understand both cycling and driving). That way cyclists aren't some alien sect but the drivers themselves, their mothers, sons, friends etc. Viewing a cyclist as potentially their daughter/grandmother is more likely to make someone take care around them than the increasing perspective that cyclists are annoying articles.

mcgratheoin · 15-05-2017 2:28pm

Deedsie wrote: »

@radia,

Ideally we could have both?

I don't see why not - motorists have both scenic roads for tootling along and motorways to get from A to B.

I cycled from Waterford to Dungarvan along the greenway on Saturday and it was extremely peaceful and relaxing.

Yeah, the greenway is a fantastic facility, but if I wanted to commute from say Kilmacthomas to Waterford, I wouldn't use it due to interaction with pedestrians/dogs/leisure cyclists etc...

For commuting purposes I'd rather be able cycle to work separate from motorists. I find their behaviour much worse when in heavy traffic and late for work etc

It depends for me. While I like the part of my commute through the Phoenix Park, I also quite like where can get into a bus lane and ride at a decent clip. I often find heavy traffic is a bit better because cars are generally moving more slowly and are more likely to stay behind me rather than chancing an overtake. Outside Dublin may be different.

Weepsie · 15-05-2017 2:52pm

radia wrote: »

[*]They are usually a pain in the hole to join or leave unless you've a mountain bike, as there are fixed entry and exit points. This means that either you get stuck behind someone or, if you use the road to overtake or simply maintain a brisk pace, you've a load of motorists upset that you're not in the cycle track.
[

Now there are plenty of pros and cons of separated bike lanes, and this is one I hear a lot.

Cyclists tell drivers all the time to just wait patiently until it's safe to overtake. It's the same for cyclists. Just wait, a chance will come. There's an awful lot of looking down on other people because they are for whatever reason going slower than others would like.

Fian · 15-05-2017 2:55pm

There is an insane video of a van deliberately pushing a cyclist off the road in matt cooper's twitter feed. Can't link to it from where I am.

ThisRegard · 15-05-2017 2:55pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

Matt Cooper on Today FM is going to cover the most recent cyclist death and what can be done to make the roads safer - we might bombard him with suggestions! He's a cyclist himself and usually does a good job of putting a good case forward IMO.

Deedsie wrote: »

I cycled from Waterford ....

The two converging topics reminded me that over the weekend a cyclist was knocked from their bike in a hit on run in Waterford, of course I can't remember the club they're affiliated with at the moment.

Weepsie · 15-05-2017 2:57pm

Fian wrote: »

There is an insane video of a van deliberately pushing a cyclist off the road in matt cooper's twitter feed. Can't link to it from where I am.

It was raised in another thread already. Someone on here apportioned the blame to the cyclist :rolleyes:

rubadub · 15-05-2017 3:46pm

Weepsie wrote: »

It's the same for cyclists. Just wait, a chance will come. There's an awful lot of looking down on other people because they are for whatever reason going slower than others would like.

My issue is with people wandering all about the lanes, or sticking to the absolute dead centre of the lane. With cars in most cases you have a second lane that you can go into and pass, in bike lanes you are usually stuck with the one.

As the lanes are in such poor condition some are wandering about to avoid potholes etc. I know where they are in my route and very often see a guy sticking to a deadline, and then suddenly jutting out towards the road without looking behind him -someone could easily have been attempting to pass thinking he was a sensible cyclist and not knowing the moron was going to fly out.

If it really was "the same" we would have cars wildly swerving around making it very difficult to pass, a single lane for the majority of the time, and people shrugging and just buying off road vehicles to cope with the horrendous roads.

On the N11 there are trees & bushes encroaching onto the lanes, and don't start me on illegaly low election posters.

If cycle lanes cannot be widened I would like to see some sort of line maybe 1/4 in from the road, to indicate you should be cycling in that zone as people will be passing you. I often just resort to illegally cycling on (empty) footpaths or up on the grass verge on the N11.

Annie get your Run · 15-05-2017 3:56pm

Weepsie wrote: »

Now there are plenty of pros and cons of separated bike lanes, and this is one I hear a lot.

Cyclists tell drivers all the time to just wait patiently until it's safe to overtake. It's the same for cyclists. Just wait, a chance will come. There's an awful lot of looking down on other people because they are for whatever reason going slower than others would like.

The problem with many of these off road lanes is that they are raised and only wide enough for one bike so overtaking is not possible until the lane ends or you get stuck at lights. Of course you could swing onto the footpath which is normally level with the cycle lane but that's illegal and if we are to have many more cycle lanes built and the only way to overtake is going onto the foothpath this will put pedestrians in danger. My preference for Dublin & suburbs is on road segregation with no loss of right of way and the ability to proceed at a good clip so I get to work in the quickest possible time. The needs for weekend cycling are different of course but TBH most of this could be solved with driver (and cyclist) education and enforcement of current laws and we'd have little or no need to be spending money on expensive solutions if everyone would just do what their supposed to! (Okay, that's a little over simplistic but still!)

I love Sean nos · 15-05-2017 4:06pm

rubadub wrote: »

As the lanes are in such poor condition some are wandering about to avoid potholes etc. I know where they are in my route and very often see a guy sticking to a deadline, and then suddenly jutting out towards the road without looking behind him -someone could easily have been attempting to pass thinking he was a sensible cyclist and not knowing the moron was going to fly out.

Are you expecting the chap on the bike to go through the potholes in case someone might be overtaking within the same lane? The responsibility for a same overtake lies with the overtaker, not the overtaken.

Weepsie · 15-05-2017 4:19pm

Annie get your Run wrote: »

The problem with many of these off road lanes is that they are raised and only wide enough for one bike so overtaking is not possible until the lane ends or you get stuck at lights.

My point was that if we are asking for patience from road users when on roads, we should expect to enable the same patience in ourselves if we are on a road, or bike path or whatever. The conditions don't allow you to overtake, so what, when they do then overtake where and when it is safe to do so.

If there are well built lanes, this shouldn't be an issue though, though they should remain optional unless they're absolutely perfect.

mcgratheoin · 15-05-2017 4:19pm

Deedsie wrote: »

That's terrible. It was really nice along the greenway, the view of the coast coming into Dungarvan was beautiful. I got the train down from Dublin and cycled from the train station in Waterford. Crossing that bridge in Waterford was dodgy enough though, hopefully that part could also be improved.

AFAIK there is talk of a new pedestrian bridge to tie in with proposed redevelopment of the north quays. What would be great is if they could get the New Ross greenway going as well and you'd have a journey from New Ross to Dungarvan on a dedicated piece of infrastructure.

Then they need to make a decision on whether the Waterford Rosslare line will ever be re-opened and if not they could begin a greenway process before the vegetation takes over completely. In my imagination i see tourists getting off the boat in Rosslare and having an offroad cycle track all the way to Dungarvan with a New Ross spur. They could take the coast road via Ring and Ardmore to Youghal and have a greenway from there all the way to Middleton - I'm sure you could do something decent from there into Cork - maybe a nice route through Cobh and across the ferry to link up with the Passage West/Mahon path.

One thing I'd be really interested in is seeing how the (initial) success of the Waterford Greenway feeds into local attitudes towards developments like this. Given the public ownership of the line it was low hanging fruit, but if other communities were to see significant benefits, there may be a chance to look at lines where the land has been sold off.

rubadub · 15-05-2017 4:31pm

I love Sean nos wrote: »

Are you expecting the chap on the bike to go through the potholes in case someone might be overtaking within the same lane? The responsibility for a same overtake lies with the overtaker, not the overtaken.

I expect him to look behind to check incase someone is passing and give some sort of indication, many people do this. Or they are looking well ahead and see it coming and move slowly outwards.

I love Sean nos · 15-05-2017 4:48pm

rubadub wrote: »

I expect him to look behind to check incase someone is passing and give some sort of indication, many people do this. Or they are looking well ahead and see it coming and move slowly outwards.

Not a frequent user of cycle lanes, but I'd only look behind me. I don't indicate if I'm staying within the lane. If it's a defect or a piece of road furniture, I might point at it though.

2 Wheels Good · 15-05-2017 5:00pm

Matt Cooper doing a piece on cycling after the 5pm news
https://twitter.com/cooper_m/status/864093849643364352

I love Sean nos · 15-05-2017 5:13pm

Why protection only for people who happen to use a bike at the weekends?

Journalism and cycling

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