Where did America go wrong?

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 3:58pm

tara2k wrote: »

Well said. As I said before, you can't compare life in Utah with life in New York.

Property ownership is going to be a dream for future generations in Ireland. Your social housing policies, which are absolutely ridiculous, are going to accelerate that process, and the policies of all of your major political parties, and I'm including your much loved SF in that, makes it very, very hard to see any light at the end of that tunnel.

People here don't know what poverty is. I'll say no more about that.

If that is the case, why does Ireland have to court, and pander to, countless companies from the US? Ireland should be a world leader. Moreover, the rankings for your third level universities are well below those in the USA, and third level education is free here. A student from a disadvantaged area has access to the same courses as a student from a wealthy area. That is not the case in the US.

Ireland gives tax breaks to these companies and these companies take them. It's a form of bribery.

And I don't get your final point about free education. I don't understand what you're trying to say.

The Nal · 15-03-2021 4:03pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, sortof. The figure comes from the 2018 report.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/files/2018-report-economic-well-being-us-households-201905.pdf

12% said they would be completely unable to cover the expense, the other 27% would either sell something, borrow, or put it on the credit card.

There's been a trend over recent years to improve the figure. Instead of 40%, as of July 2020, https://www.federalreserve.gov/publications/2020-update-economic-well-being-of-us-households-overall-financial-security.htm , the figure is now 30%, though no breakdown is provided of those who couldn't come up with the money at all vs those who would sell, borrow, or put it on long-term credit.

Well, that figure only counts for the cash savings in hand. Only 3% say they don't know what they would do.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Shatter isn't a million miles away though.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/41-percent-of-americans-would-be-able-to-cover-1000-dollar-emergency-with-savings.html

So 59% of Americans wouldn't be able to come up with $1000 in the event of an emergency.

He is a million miles away. He got the percentage of people wrong, the question in the survey wrong and the dollar amount wrong. 3 things, all wrong.

He said "a couple of hundred dollars". That is not "1000 dollars".

The question is how would you pay an expense of $1000, not could you pay.

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 4:54pm

martingriff wrote: »

Anerica is a huge country that is made up of 50 states (countries you could say) with there own seperate laws. To say what the whole country is like just from a few area is baffling. It be like saying Well the whole EU is like x just because of Dublin or Warsaw or Madrid

Oh come on. Saying that each state is like a different country is a crock of shit. They have the same currency, the same language, the same armed forces, the same bloody food. You don't need a passport to go from one state to another. There are some superficial legal differences like taxation or when the bars close or stuff like that. Are you trying to say the differences between Italy and Austria are akin to the differences between North Dakota and South Dakota?

Achebe · 15-03-2021 5:04pm

nicholasIII wrote: »

In regards to racism, does anyone think it's not as bad in the U.S.?

I feel that the media overblows it. I used to live there and it wasn't bad (and I lived in the South). I think actual racism is worse in non-Western countries/regions (e.g Eastern Europe, Asia, South America)

Why isn't South America considered western?

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 5:07pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

Shatter isn't a million miles away though.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/01/21/41-percent-of-americans-would-be-able-to-cover-1000-dollar-emergency-with-savings.html

So 59% of Americans wouldn't be able to come up with $1000 in the event of an emergency.

Exactly.

So 59% wouldn't have the $1000. They'd have to beg, borrow or steal or sacrifice other things like food.

The Nal · 15-03-2021 5:16pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Exactly.

Exactly not what you said. Its not what the study says either.

It also doesn't say anything about stealing or sacrificing food. You just made that bit up.

I'd imagine the stats would be very different if we went with your "couple of hundred dollars" number but that "fact" as you called it doesn't exist.

Manic Moran · 15-03-2021 5:30pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Oh come on. Saying that each state is like a different country is a crock of shit. They have the same currency, the same language, the same armed forces, the same bloody food. You don't need a passport to go from one state to another. There are some superficial legal differences like taxation or when the bars close or stuff like that. Are you trying to say the differences between Italy and Austria are akin to the differences between North Dakota and South Dakota?

Well, yes.

Italy and Austria use the same currency. Same language, only in parts, true. But Belgium, France, Switzerland all have French as official languages, they all use the same currency. I don't believe you need a passport to cross from France to Belgium or Italy to Austria. States have they have their own constitutions, jurisdictions, extraditions are required to transfer prisoners between them, they have their own departments of education, state, treasury, justice, and military. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized the sovereignty of individual states as a separate jurisdiction to the United States, most recently in Gamble vs US (2018). "When the original States declared their independence, they claimed the powers inherent in sovereignty .... The Constitution limited but did not abolish the sovereign powers of the States, which retained ‘a residuary and inviolable sovereignty.’ "

Not that having a military is a defining characteristic of a country. Ask Costa Rica, Palau, or even Iceland. Either way, the States do have their own armed forces, I'm in one of them. My Commander in Chief is Greg Abbott, not Joe Biden, I'm subject to the TX Code of Military Justice under the administration of the Texas Military Department, not the Uniform Code of Military Justice of the federal military. (Indeed, I currently hold a different rank in Texas than the federal government has recognised). As for "the same bloody food", I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. Even something as stereotypical as a BBQ is radically different between, say, Texas and South Carolina. Tex-Mex is a very different form of food than California type Baja-Mex.

There is one thing which American states cannot do which Austria or Italy can do. That is foreign relations, which is specifically reserved to the Federal Government. On the other hand, I can't think of any part of domestic Austrian or Italian law which is exempt from interference from the EU government, whilst the US federal government is explicitly prohibited from interfering with quite a number of matters in US States.

[Edit. A second thing is 'leave the higher organisation', now I think about it. Not that that's an unusual thing reserved solely for nations.]

Ush1 · 15-03-2021 6:14pm

The US is the major industrial nation on earth. So whatever way it has lost, it certainly rules the roost by a distance when it comes to innovation and business.

Fr Tod Umptious · 15-03-2021 6:22pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, yes.

Italy and Austria use the same currency. Same language, only in parts, true. But Belgium, France, Switzerland all have French as official languages, they all use the same currency. I don't believe you need a passport to cross from France to Belgium or Italy to Austria. States have they have their own constitutions, jurisdictions, extraditions are required to transfer prisoners between them, they have their own departments of education, state, treasury, justice, and military. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized the sovereignty of individual states as a separate jurisdiction to the United States, most recently in Gamble vs US (2018). "When the original States declared their independence, they claimed the powers inherent in sovereignty .... The Constitution limited but did not abolish the sovereign powers of the States, which retained ‘a residuary and inviolable sovereignty.’ "

Not that having a military is a defining characteristic of a country. Ask Costa Rica, Palau, or even Iceland. Either way, the States do have their own armed forces, I'm in one of them. My Commander in Chief is Greg Abbott, not Joe Biden, I'm subject to the TX Code of Military Justice under the administration of the Texas Military Department, not the Uniform Code of Military Justice of the federal military. (Indeed, I currently hold a different rank in Texas than the federal government has recognised). As for "the same bloody food", I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. Even something as stereotypical as a BBQ is radically different between, say, Texas and South Carolina. Tex-Mex is a very different form of food than California type Baja-Mex.

There is one thing which American states cannot do which Austria or Italy can do. That is foreign relations, which is specifically reserved to the Federal Government. On the other hand, I can't think of any part of domestic Austrian or Italian law which is exempt from interference from the EU government, whilst the US federal government is explicitly prohibited from interfering with quite a number of matters in US States.

[Edit. A second thing is 'leave the higher organisation', now I think about it. Not that that's an unusual thing reserved solely for nations.]

And your not allowed pump your own gas in New Jersey

Snickers Man · 15-03-2021 7:02pm

I am tekashi 6ix9ine wrote: »

Tell us more about this story fascinating stuff.

Catch it all on Netflix

rossie1977 · 15-03-2021 7:05pm

Achebe wrote: »

Why isn't South America considered western?

Like eastern Europe much of South America was 2nd world until recently

"Western" usually refers to the richer nations hence why Australia/NZ is considered"western" and Japan/S Korea often included

Tony EH · 15-03-2021 7:13pm

Achebe wrote: »

Why isn't South America considered western?

Hemispheres.

The term "western world" meant countries to the "west" of the Prime Meridian. However, while South America is indeed west of this line, it is also south of the equator. So it's considered "southern".

However the term "western" has been expanded greatly during the 20th century.

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 7:24pm

The Nal wrote: »

He is a million miles away. He got the percentage of people wrong, the question in the survey wrong and the dollar amount wrong. 3 things, all wrong.

He said "a couple of hundred dollars". That is not "1000 dollars".

The question is how would you pay an expense of $1000, not could you pay.

40% not being able to come up with a couple of hundred dollars is the stat that I have. In fact it was $400. So if you want to split hairs about calling 400 bucks beyond a "couple" of hundred then fine...that is your wont.

And as for your talk about would as opposed to could...that is utter gibberish. If you don't have the $400 then you CAN'T pay. You may have a chance of stumping up the cash by selling one of your kids, selling your arse, selling drugs or going into hock. That's hardly giving your argument any credulence.

Fr Tod Umptious · 15-03-2021 7:38pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

40% not being able to come up with a couple of hundred dollars is the stat that I have. In fact it was $400. So if you want to split hairs about calling 400 bucks beyond a "couple" of hundred then fine...that is your wont.

And as for your talk about would as opposed to could...that is utter gibberish. If you don't have the $400 then you CAN'T pay. You may have a chance of stumping up the cash by selling one of your kids, selling your arse, selling drugs or going into hock. That's hardly giving your argument any credulence.

But you don't have a link or anything related to this stat.

rossie1977 · 15-03-2021 7:41pm

Ush1 wrote: »

The US is the major industrial nation on earth. So whatever way it has lost, it certainly rules the roost by a distance when it comes to innovation and business.

100 years ago that was UK don't forget..

Germany already passed US on exports and China/Japan seem to be the ones coming up with the most recent innovations. China are streaking ahead of the US in terms of infrastructure and skyscrapers.

4 hours between Shanghai and Beijing on a train.

metaoblivia · 15-03-2021 7:43pm

Deleted User wrote: »

If I didn't have a child who is settled here and going to school, I would love to move to America.

America is so vast and outside of **** holes like California there are some beautiful states. Saying America is **** because of new York's problem is like saying don't go to Ireland because there are junkies on Talbot Street.

I think you mean Mississippi, the most impoverished state in the nation.

California certainly has its issues, homelessness in its major cities among them, but to call it a ****hole when it's the 5th wealthiest state in the union and home to 9 national parks is either partisanship or pure ignorance.

Yurt2 · 15-03-2021 7:44pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Like eastern Europe much of South America was 2nd world until recently

"Western" usually refers to the richer nations hence why Australia/NZ is considered"western" and Japan/S Korea often included

Japan and Korea are only very very superficially Western. Yes they are wealthy and their businessmen wear suits, but the cultural hardware is very different. How their societies are structured and organized does not come from the Greco-Roman / Christian wellspring of the rest of the rich world. Even though there is a significant minority of Christians in Korea, it's grafted on in a weird way and hence odd phenomenons like the Moonies and cult churches they are famous for. Japan spat out Christianity as a value framework altogether.

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 9:01pm

Ush1 wrote: »

The US is the major industrial nation on earth. So whatever way it has lost, it certainly rules the roost by a distance when it comes to innovation and business.

"The major industrial nation on Earth"

:pac:

During Dubya's reign they reclassified fast food jobs as "manufacturing jobs" to pad the numbers. Reagan reclassified ketchup as a vegetable to skew the school dinner numbers.

What products in your house are "Made in America"?

Your appliances? Your car? Your bicycle? Your electric toothbrush? Your kitchen utensils? Your sports gear?

All you have to do is look at the 4th world infrastructure of the US. Bridges in bits...68,000 of them get a C- and could come down at any moment. Pollution in Louisiana..they call the place "Cancer Alley". The Dutch had to pump out New Orleans in 2005 after Katrina. Morocco has more high speed rail than the US. Airports that resemble dole offices from the 80's

Someone posted a picture of how most of america looks...a serene little street with manicured lawns. Such bollocks. The capital, Washington DC has a higher infant mortality rate than that hellhole Cuba.

Even the national infant mortality rate in the US overall is higher (almost twice) as Cuba. ... and Cuba aren't even allowed to import cough syrup thanks to America.

Great industrial superpower, don't make me laugh.

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 9:11pm

The Nal wrote: »

He is a million miles away. He got the percentage of people wrong, the question in the survey wrong and the dollar amount wrong. 3 things, all wrong.

He said "a couple of hundred dollars". That is not "1000 dollars".

The question is how would you pay an expense of $1000, not could you pay.

How about this one:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secret-shame/476415/

The Atlantic....hardly a tree hugging rag-mag who likes to expose uncomfortable truths.

40% would have to borrow or sell something to come up with a poxy $400

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 9:19pm

The Nal wrote: »

Exactly not what you said. Its not what the study says either.

It also doesn't say anything about stealing or sacrificing food. You just made that bit up.

I'd imagine the stats would be very different if we went with your "couple of hundred dollars" number but that "fact" as you called it doesn't exist.

I notice you left out begging/borrowing.

The 59 would have to borrow, i.e. go into debt to cover this expense.

They don't have rainy day savings to cover something as measly as $1000. They live paycheque to paycheque and that's probably not their fault as savers or budgetters. It means that 50% of a nation of 300 million are struggling and are vulnerable.

That's not a superpower or a great nation. That's a fcuking disgrace. Yet you think it's a paragon of success. Facts are stubborn things.

ShatterAlan · 15-03-2021 9:28pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, yes.

Italy and Austria use the same currency. Same language, only in parts, true. But Belgium, France, Switzerland all have French as official languages, they all use the same currency. I don't believe you need a passport to cross from France to Belgium or Italy to Austria. States have they have their own constitutions, jurisdictions, extraditions are required to transfer prisoners between them, they have their own departments of education, state, treasury, justice, and military. The US Supreme Court has repeatedly recognized the sovereignty of individual states as a separate jurisdiction to the United States, most recently in Gamble vs US (2018). "When the original States declared their independence, they claimed the powers inherent in sovereignty .... The Constitution limited but did not abolish the sovereign powers of the States, which retained ‘a residuary and inviolable sovereignty.’ "

Not that having a military is a defining characteristic of a country. Ask Costa Rica, Palau, or even Iceland. Either way, the States do have their own armed forces, I'm in one of them. My Commander in Chief is Greg Abbott, not Joe Biden, I'm subject to the TX Code of Military Justice under the administration of the Texas Military Department, not the Uniform Code of Military Justice of the federal military. (Indeed, I currently hold a different rank in Texas than the federal government has recognised). As for "the same bloody food", I assure you nothing could be further from the truth. Even something as stereotypical as a BBQ is radically different between, say, Texas and South Carolina. Tex-Mex is a very different form of food than California type Baja-Mex.

There is one thing which American states cannot do which Austria or Italy can do. That is foreign relations, which is specifically reserved to the Federal Government. On the other hand, I can't think of any part of domestic Austrian or Italian law which is exempt from interference from the EU government, whilst the US federal government is explicitly prohibited from interfering with quite a number of matters in US States.

[Edit. A second thing is 'leave the higher organisation', now I think about it. Not that that's an unusual thing reserved solely for nations.]

That is all minutiae.

The 50 states of the US cannot, by any stretch of the imagination be classified as separate "countries" as was posited by another poster.

For the most part, the difference between adjoining US states is the colour of the cop cars, buses and license plates.

Yurt2 · 15-03-2021 9:30pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

I notice you left out begging/borrowing.

The 59 would have to borrow, i.e. go into debt to cover this expense.

They don't have rainy day savings to cover something as measly as $1000. They live paycheque to paycheque and that's probably not their fault as savers or budgetters. It means that 50% of a nation of 300 million are struggling and are vulnerable.

That's not a superpower or a great nation. That's a fcuking disgrace. Yet you think it's a paragon of success. Facts are stubborn things.

The great American middle class that rose up after the second world war is an endangered species. Their purchasing power is shot. Real wages haven't increased since something like the 1970s. They're the first rich country to see their life expectancy to decline in the last decade. Addiction, precarious employment, access to affordable housing where it matters, healthcare access mess, inequality at a tipping point, homelessness ballooning in once great cities. Something has gone wrong in America.

[Deleted User] · 15-03-2021 9:37pm

The debate here on whether people would need to borrow $400 or $1000 is angels on pins time. It means people are living close to disaster.

Achebe · 15-03-2021 11:13pm

rossie1977 wrote: »

Like eastern Europe much of South America was 2nd world until recently

"Western" usually refers to the richer nations hence why Australia/NZ is considered"western" and Japan/S Korea often included

So South Korea and Japan are western, while culturally European Argentina isn't? That makes absolutely no sense.

Achebe · 15-03-2021 11:14pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Japan and Korea are only very very superficially Western. Yes they are wealthy and their businessmen wear suits, but the cultural hardware is very different. How their societies are structured and organized does not come from the Greco-Roman / Christian wellspring of the rest of the rich world. Even though there is a significant minority of Christians in Korea, it's grafted on in a weird way and hence odd phenomenons like the Moonies and cult churches they are famous for. Japan spat out Christianity as a value framework altogether.

And much of Latin America does have this wellspring, yet people say they're not western. It makes no sense.

Yurt2 · 15-03-2021 11:18pm

Achebe wrote: »

And much of Latin America does have this wellspring, yet people say they're not western. It makes no sense.

Latin American is in every sense of the word a Western region - culturally, in a civilizational sense, geographically. I don't know how anyone can make the case that Argentina or Brazil aren't Western countries yet Japan is.

Achebe · 15-03-2021 11:21pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Latin American is in every sense of the word a Western region - culturally, in a civilizational sense, geographically. I don't know how anyone can make the case that Argentina or Brazil aren't Western countries yet Japan is.

Yet lots of people do! It's an incredibly common belief. It basically comes down to thinking only rich nations can be western. It's certainly not a belief shared by most Latin Americans themselves. You would think the word Latin would be a clue to people.

mikhail · 16-03-2021 3:28am

I think this is quite relevant to any discussion of the decline of America. https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Manic Moran · 16-03-2021 7:06am

ShatterAlan wrote: »

That is all minutiae.

The 50 states of the US cannot, by any stretch of the imagination be classified as separate "countries" as was posited by another poster.

For the most part, the difference between adjoining US states is the colour of the cop cars, buses and license plates.

You apparently don't live here, then.

Or if you did, you didn't pay much attention to civics. I find it interesting that you find the vast majority of government to be 'minutae'. You know executive, legislative, judicial branches all being separate, that sort of thing.

What's would you categorise as the non-minutae difference between streets in Baarle-Hertog-Nassau? Or, last year, between Dundalk and Newry?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 16-03-2021 7:16am

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Ireland could do well with adopting this attitude to a large cohort in the country.

Yeah, make people homes an then you'll complain about the homeless. Great idea...

Where did America go wrong?

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