The Dutch Language

Tony EH · 07-02-2021 1:54pm

ShyMets wrote: »

I worked with a Dutch guys year. One day I asked him how most Dutch people seem to be almost fluent in English. He answered "Well why the fu*k would anybody learn Dutch".

I thought fair point

Well, he's correct. English is an international language. Dutch isn't.

But it's one of the things that's made the Irish really lazy/poor at learning other languages, in that we've had it too easy with our use of English.

Frankly, it's a thing we can be thankful to the English for. :pac: Because if Irish was our first language, we'd still be a backwater.

ffarrell7 · 07-02-2021 2:17pm

Dutch is a poor language. They are so embarrassed about it and have such a complex that they would prefer to speak English than Dutch.

And no, Germans cannot understand spoken Dutch..... That is rubbish. Just like I cannot understand Scots Gallic.....very similar in the written format thiugh.... But it ends there.

Bretons cannot understand spoken Welsh and Dutch people understand very little of Afrikans. Too far removed now.

The Brits can thank the French for the bulk of their language as so much of their vocabulary has come from them. 1066 French invasion of Britain made sure of that.

Of course they live to forget that the French dominated them for a couple of hundred years both linguistically and culturally.

99% of words ending in - ion in English are pure French.

German is a major European language but it ends there. It is not an international language and never will be.

French on the other hand is spoken more as a first and second language in Africa than it is in France and Belgium put together. The amount of French speakers is exploding upwards. The RDC has a population alone of nearly 200 million....

So in my opinion the three most useful languages to learn and which compliment each other by their linguistic proximity are English, French and Spanish.

Chinese will never ever take off. Too complex for a start. Not going to happen.

ffarrell7 · 07-02-2021 2:33pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, he's correct. English is an international language. Dutch isn't.

But it's one of the things that's made the Irish really lazy/poor at learning other languages, in that we've had it too easy with our use of English.

Frankly, it's a thing we can be thankful to the English for. :pac: Because if Irish was our first language, we'd still be a backwater.

Irish is a very rich language. Despite what I say about Dutch, it is a very prosperous country so language doesn't come into it. Same for Norwegian, Danish, Swedish etc

Wealthy countries who speak their own language as a first language and then learn other ones like English, German French etc and speak them well unlike Paddy!!

dxhound2005 · 07-02-2021 2:47pm

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Bretons cannot understand spoken Welsh and Dutch people understand very little of Afrikans. Too far removed now.

Removal in time and distance has not changed English to the extent that very little of it is understood among English people when confronted with the American or Australian versions. Why would that happen with Dutch?

humberklog · 07-02-2021 2:47pm

To my ear the Dutch language sounds like the word Orange being spoken by a yo-yo.

I found it handy to read the TV guide for example and understand the gist of the programme that was coming up when I briefly lived there.

bigar · 07-02-2021 3:25pm

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Dutch is a poor language. They are so embarrassed about it and have such a complex that they would prefer to speak English than Dutch.

Quite a generalisation there and it definitely does not apply to the Dutch speaking parts of Belgium. As a Dutch speaker, from Belgium, I find it a very rich language. Most Dutch (people from The Netherlands) do not think so, that is true.

English is just an easy language to learn so many Dutch speakers do speak it too. It is after all the world's lingua franca.

ffarrell7 · 07-02-2021 3:27pm

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Removal in time and distance has not changed English to the extent that very little of it is understood among English people when confronted with the American or Australian versions. Why would that happen with Dutch?

There was little if any contact from the 17th century onwards between the Netherlands and South Africa. One of the reasons the languages especially the pronunciation and accent went their separate ways. The indigenous languages of SA also changed and distorted Afrikaans.

A bit like French in Canada although I still understand it pretty well when spoken as standard French.

PTH2009 · 07-02-2021 3:41pm

jojofizzio wrote: »

Found the Dutch exceptionally friendly when we were in Amsterdam...struck up conversation with us without any prompting....wasn’t expecting it tbh

Probably baked out of there skulls

McGinniesta · 07-02-2021 3:49pm

Pass the dutchie on the left hand side

Tony EH · 07-02-2021 10:44pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Probably baked out of there skulls

It's more of a foreign thing that. Most Dutch don't bother with it. At least that was my experience in Amsterdam, and outside of that city they kinda view the drug thing there with a bit of a sneer.

Amsterdam is odd though. It's unlike anywhere else I've been in Holland. Head up to Rotterdam and it's like a different country.

suicide_circus · 07-02-2021 10:55pm

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Dutch is a poor language. They are so embarrassed about it and have such a complex that they would prefer to speak English than Dutch.

What do you mean "poor"? They certain seem to speak a lot of dutch without shame any time i'm there

suicide_circus · 07-02-2021 10:58pm

PTH2009 wrote: »

Would Dutch people be Germanic ?

Germans, Swiss and Austrians are very similar and can be hard to disguise

There are massive regional differences in dialect. Someone from Northern Germany would have difficulties understanding someone from rural south Austria unless that person made the effort to speak in Hochdeutsch

AllForIt · 07-02-2021 10:59pm

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Irish is a very rich language. !

What does that mean?

Jim2007 · 07-02-2021 11:11pm

Tony EH wrote: »

Frankly, it's a thing we can be thankful to the English for. :pac: Because if Irish was our first language, we'd still be a backwater.

Rubbish, we’d have learned to use English just like every other small Western Europe country and prospered the same as we did.

JupiterKid · 07-02-2021 11:14pm

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Dutch is a poor language. They are so embarrassed about it and have such a complex that they would prefer to speak English than Dutch.

And no, Germans cannot understand spoken Dutch..... That is rubbish. Just like I cannot understand Scots Gallic.....very similar in the written format thiugh.... But it ends there.

Bretons cannot understand spoken Welsh and Dutch people understand very little of Afrikans. Too far removed now.

The Brits can thank the French for the bulk of their language as so much of their vocabulary has come from them. 1066 French invasion of Britain made sure of that.

Of course they live to forget that the French dominated them for a couple of hundred years both linguistically and culturally.

99% of words ending in - ion in English are pure French.

German is a major European language but it ends there. It is not an international language and never will be.

French on the other hand is spoken more as a first and second language in Africa than it is in France and Belgium put together. The amount of French speakers is exploding upwards. The RDC has a population alone of nearly 200 million....

So in my opinion the three most useful languages to learn and which compliment each other by their linguistic proximity are English, French and Spanish.

Chinese will never ever take off. Too complex for a start. Not going to happen.

Can you verify that the Dutch are so ashamed of their own language that they won’t speak it? Funny, because any time I’m over in the Netherlands (usually once a year) the Dutch seem to use their own language all the time.

The opening statement in your post borders on insulting and offensive.

Thelonious Monk · 07-02-2021 11:15pm

If you listen to the English language here, spoken like they believe it was spoken 500 years ago, it sounds very much like dutch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCckcTHWqKw

suicide_circus · 07-02-2021 11:15pm

Jim2007 wrote: »

Rubbish, we’d have learned to use English just like every other small Western Europe country and prospered the same as we did.

Ah now, 800 years and all that but i wouldnt deny our familiarity with english has been very beneficial

Jim2007 · 07-02-2021 11:19pm

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Wealthy countries who speak their own language as a first language and then learn other ones like English, German French etc and speak them well unlike Paddy!!

Most Irish people I know living in Europe on a permanent basis speak the local languages with competence.

sonofenoch · 07-02-2021 11:22pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Yesh....

Dish......in dish moment

PTH2009 · 07-02-2021 11:46pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

If you listen to the English language here, spoken like they believe it was spoken 500 years ago, it sounds very much like dutch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCckcTHWqKw

I have a soft spot of Medieval customs

LimeFruitGum · 07-02-2021 11:50pm

I wouldn’t mind learning Dutch actually. Having studied German for years, I can get the gist of written Dutch when I read it out loud. I can use basic transactional terms for ‘Thanks’, ‘please’, and ‘lekker’ but that’s all. I really like the sound of Dutch for some mad reason.

I suppose the challenge is trying to maintain a conversation in Dutch with a native speaker. Their English is far better than my Dutch would ever be.

08-02-2021 12:00am

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Bretons cannot understand spoken Welsh and Dutch people understand very little of Afrikans. Too far removed now.

My understanding was that it was easier for a Dutch speaker to understand Afrikaans than the other way around. Afrikaans is generally thought to be an easier language to learn than Dutch - very similar in most respects but with a much easier grammar. I read that the only real difficulty a Dutch person would experience with Afrikaans is with South African slang words.

I started reading about this when I matched with a South African on Tinder, which prompted me to start Dutch on Duolingo!

SharpshooterTom wrote: »

I find it a bit surprising that none of the indigenous British and Irish languages (Welsh, Irish, Cornish, Manx, Scots Gaelic etc) have little to no influence on English? Those languages are about as much related to English as the Slavic languages.

Interestingly Irish has some features very close to the Semitic languages;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAAmwtdP1bE

murpho999 · 08-02-2021 12:03am

jmlad2020 wrote: »

Sounds a bit like German with an influence of English. I've always heard they were similar which makes sense considering their close proximity geographically.

A Dutch person can probably understand a German speaker and vice versa.

Reminds me of the subtle differences between Irish and Scottish Gaelic which are very similar.

Edit. Makes you think all languages are a hybrid of each other through the eternity of time, integrated words and mixture of cultures. In that respect English is a mixture of thousands of generational languages that have come before it. Hundreds of thousands of years

No they wouldn't.
If a Dutch and German person met each other and definitely could not understand each others language then they would struggle.

If they spoke to each other at normal pace and accent then they'd probably catch 10% of what each other says.
If they slowed down then maybe 20-30% but that's after a lot of analysis and trying to break words down to there equivalents that may sounds similar.

I lived in Holland for 7 years and learned the language to a decent level . Can converse fluently but can't understand German much and definitely cannot speak it.

Great language though once you get your head around it but not as expressive as English.

murpho999 · 08-02-2021 12:04am

Tony EH wrote: »

Well, he's correct. English is an international language. Dutch isn't.

But it's one of the things that's made the Irish really lazy/poor at learning other languages, in that we've had it too easy with our use of English.

Frankly, it's a thing we can be thankful to the English for. :pac: Because if Irish was our first language, we'd still be a backwater.

Yes, just like Denmark, Sweden, Norway,Estonia, Latvia Lithuania , Slovakia etc are with their own silly languages.

murpho999 · 08-02-2021 12:08am

ffarrell7 wrote: »

Dutch is a poor language. They are so embarrassed about it and have such a complex that they would prefer to speak English than Dutch.

.

Seriously,where are you getting this rubbish from?

Dutch are very proud of their language and speak it all the time.

They love to show off their language skills when they can but Dutch people will always speak Dutch together.

The misconceptions that people have about languages and other countries amazes me at times. Niet te geloven.

JupiterKid · 08-02-2021 1:03am

My sister lives in the Netherlands - has since 2001 - and is fluent in Dutch, French, German and Italian. Some people are just very good at languages!

My nephew and niece (now 19 and 17 respectively) are half Irish, half Dutch and as well as being fluent in both Dutch and English also have quite a few “cupla focal” as Gaeilge as my sister is a very proud Irishwoman and taught them Irish from a very young age. My niece is also excellent at French in school, as was my sister.

I travel over to see her and her family about once a year, sometimes twice (pre Covid) and I do have a few words and phrases in basic Dutch as I think it’s just good manners to try to speak a bit of the local language.

Dutch people tell me that they can mostly understand spoken and written German, but most Germans can’t understand Dutch.

Lillyfae · 08-02-2021 8:15am

My Dutch is fluent and I can understand and communicate with Vlaams speakers. When they have TV shows like Big Brother, The Voice etc in the Netherlands, Belgian participants are very common because both languages are easily understood by the other. It's more of a dialect comparable to, for example, someone from Munster speaking to someone from Ulster. Afrikaans I understand fully, but not all understand Dutch unless they make a conscious effort to practice. German I understand some of, but if I try to communicate with Germans using Dutch it doesn't work.

I have a few Irish educational tools for my children but since my Irish is not spectacular anymore, and because it will most likely be useless to them, I will be prioritising English. I'm well integrated so it's not a language that they are totally immersed in and I want them to be native level speakers.

Most Dutch people speak English, (I believe) owing to the fact that historically TV shows have never been dubbed (subtitled instead) but more recently children are learning it earlier in primary school. Ability levels do range broadly though, for example grammar is not massively important to many Dutch people in their own language so they don't get or care why it's important to English speakers- I also have to beg people to correct my grammar mistakes in Dutch :pac:. There are German and French TV channels as standard, most Dutch people I know have a conversational level of German and some French, but German is definitely more common.

I remember seeing an infographic of how many languages are spoken on average per person in each European country and the Netherlands was way up there for multilingualism.

08-02-2021 9:52am

Tony EH wrote: »

It's more of a foreign thing that. Most Dutch don't bother with it. At least that was my experience in Amsterdam, and outside of that city they kinda view the drug thing there with a bit of a sneer.

Amsterdam is odd though. It's unlike anywhere else I've been in Holland. Head up to Rotterdam and it's like a different country.

What makes Amsterdam different from the rest of the country? Am curious.

Lillyfae · 08-02-2021 10:07am

Deleted User wrote: »

What makes Amsterdam different from the rest of the country? Am curious.

People are perceived as a bit rude, and the drug and sex tourism is frowned upon by ordinary Dutch people. There's hardly a red light district in the rest of the country anymore, and weed is strictly available to residents in other cities- they're not allowed sell to tourists.

feargale · 08-02-2021 2:16pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What makes Amsterdam different from the rest of the country? Am curious.

Last time I was in Amsterdam I got the impression that there was more English than Dutch spoken there. I said to a few locals that I remembered Amsterdam as a Dutch-speaking city. "That was a long time ago" was the usual answer.

The Dutch Language

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