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The annual ASTI Easter strike threat

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    I'm sure you are aware that ASC is a pension contribution payment, like everyone else would be paying to get a pension, and everyone pays the income tax USC, not just teachers.

    Maybe you're unaware.... but ASC doesn't go anywhere towards a pension contribution. It goes into the general tax pot. It's just an extra tax.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    It is fairly obvious that the reason teachers want to be take out of turn is that if it is done by age, the students will find out how old the teachers are. Tecahers will just have to face up to the fact that students will know the year of their birth from now on.

    ?? What ??


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Useless quotes are often used when someone has nothing intelligent left to say. Guess we can now all agree with the people you've been having a discussion with?

    "Useless quotes are often used when someone has nothing intelligent left to say. Guess we can now all agree with the people you've been having a discussion with?"


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Some, not all, teachers on here tow the union line no matter how ridiculous the line is. People go on about it not being a hive mind but it doesn't seem like that when multiple people will defend the stance regardless of what the stance is.

    In this case the ASTI are hanging themselves and showing the organisation up to be a load of jobsbodies. I say let them. It's clear that there's a gap in the market for a union that's not contrarian and dysfunctional, and I have full belief in the younger generation of teachers to form one now.

    EDIT: Without the input from retired teachers of 20-30 years ago, hopefully.

    I'm not really defending the stance, but I'll defend the right to vote on it.

    I will gladly take any input from senior teachers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    Treppen wrote: »
    "Useless quotes are often used when someone has nothing intelligent left to say. Guess we can now all agree with the people you've been having a discussion with?"


    Got the copy and paste down at least. Still holding out that the demand that teachers get priority vaccine has some merit?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Treppen wrote: »
    I'm not really defending the stance, but I'll defend the right to vote on it.

    I will gladly take any input from senior teachers.

    Retired teachers, who have no stake in teaching anymore except their pensions.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Got the copy and paste down at least. Still holding out that the demand that teachers get priority vaccine has some merit?

    Ya it has some merit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,140 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Treppen wrote: »
    Maybe you're unaware.... but ASC doesn't go anywhere towards a pension contribution. It goes into the general tax pot. It's just an extra tax.

    That correct but Public Sevice pensions is paid out of general taxation not out of a pension pot that exists. It's classed as a pension contribution as it is treated that way in the taxation system with PS workers allowed to declare it against tax. Any other tax such as USC or PAYE are not allowable against tax. I think.psrt of the PRSI is but I may be incorrect

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Treppen wrote: »
    Maybe you're unaware.... but ASC doesn't go anywhere towards a pension contribution. It goes into the general tax pot. It's just an extra tax.

    Maybe you are unaware, but public service pensions are paid out of that tax pot. It's a contribution towards a pension you get, no different to anyone else.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    Treppen wrote: »
    I'm not really defending the stance, but I'll defend the right to vote on it.

    I will gladly take any input from senior teachers.


    You said it has merit earlier???


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  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Seaandwind


    It is fairly obvious that the reason teachers want to be take out of turn is that if it is done by age, the students will find out how old the teachers are. Tecahers will just have to face up to the fact that students will know the year of their birth from now on.

    This is gas. I don’t think anyone is this shallow!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Seaandwind wrote: »
    This is gas. I don’t think anyone is this shallow!!

    I know people over 70 who have been given the vaccine but won't admit to it as it will give away their age. I went to school for years and I know what teachers are like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Seaandwind


    I know people over 70 who have been given the vaccine but won't admit to it as it will give away their age. I went to school for years and I know what teachers are like.

    We all went to school and know what they are like, how would students even find out if you were vaccinated let alone your age? Or care? Infairness this argument is completely invalid!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Seaandwind wrote: »
    We all went to school and know what they are like, how would students even find out if you were vaccinated let alone your age? Or care? Infairness this argument is completely invalid!

    When the teacher goes for vaccination, if during schholl hours they will be absent. The students will also have parents who are vaccinators. There is no doubt the wor would get out. Once it is known when a teacher is vaccinated the age would be kbnown by comparing it with others vaccinated around the same time. QED as some teachers were wont to say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    You said it has merit earlier???

    Yes it has merit to me.

    Not everything is black or white. We live in a contextual world.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    When the teacher goes for vaccination, if during schholl hours they will be absent. The students will also have parents who are vaccinators. There is no doubt the wor would get out. Once it is known when a teacher is vaccinated the age would be kbnown by comparing it with others vaccinated around the same time. QED as some teachers were wont to say.

    No QED. There were 3 teachers out today in my school... we're they off getting vaccinated?

    Telling your kids a patient's medical treatments is a dumb move. Whatever about telling an adult, telling your child "oh ya I gave your teacher a jab today" and expecting the kid to say nothing in school.... and by your scenario, doing that for every teacher... !


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    Treppen wrote: »
    Yes it has merit to me.

    Not everything is black or white. We live in a contextual world.


    It has merit so but you think it's wrong?

    So we agree the teacher stance has a lack of merit? Thats fair.


  • Registered Users Posts: 27,169 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    When the teacher goes for vaccination, if during schholl hours they will be absent. The students will also have parents who are vaccinators. There is no doubt the wor would get out. Once it is known when a teacher is vaccinated the age would be kbnown by comparing it with others vaccinated around the same time. QED as some teachers were wont to say.

    The only difference with the change in vaccination priority is that teachers will be mainly vaccinated over the summer rather than during the last few weeks of term when it is of little purpose anyway as they are about to go on summer holidays.

    So I don't think the issue will be live anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,553 ✭✭✭Treppen


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Retired teachers, who have no stake in teaching anymore except their pensions.

    Well thems the Union rules, Union members appreciate their experience, sorry that makes you annoyed. Have you raised this at any branch meetings?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Treppen wrote: »
    No QED. There were 3 teachers out today in my school... we're they off getting vaccinated?

    Telling your kids a patient's medical treatments is a dumb move. Whatever about telling an adult, telling your child "oh ya I gave your teacher a jab today" and expecting the kid to say nothing in school.... and by your scenario, doing that for every teacher... !

    The kid? Do you teach goats? This shows the contempt teachers have for their charges.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    The kid? Do you teach goats? This shows the contempt teachers have for their charges.

    You are seriously reaching at this stage.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    I know people over 70 who have been given the vaccine but won't admit to it as it will give away their age.
    I'll happily say I'm 85 if it gets me the vaccine tomorrow.....


    :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,226 ✭✭✭Valhallapt


    Beasty wrote: »
    I'll happily say I'm 85 if it gets me the vaccine tomorrow.....


    :pac:

    That’s unfair stealing the vaccine from a 24 year old teacher in perfect health and likely to be asymptomatic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,140 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Beasty wrote: »
    I'll happily say I'm 85 if it gets me the vaccine tomorrow.....


    :pac:

    You be grand if you said you were over 70, anybody between 60 and 70 gets the AZ so do not try to jump into the 60-70 age bracket

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Treppen wrote: »
    Well thems the Union rules, Union members appreciate their experience, sorry that makes you annoyed.

    I think they'll probably not share their "experience" on how to pull the ladder up after them so that is probably foolish at best. It wouldn't annoy me really, I'd know better than to expect a baby boomer to look after my interests for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,154 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Seaandwind wrote: »
    We all went to school and know what they are like,

    A lot of people who went to school have Stockhoilm syndrome.


  • Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,256 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    You be grand if you said you were over 70, anybody between 60 and 70 gets the AZ so do not try to jump into the 60-70 age bracket

    Absolutely no jumping required

    Pretty sure it's AZ for me


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭lulublue22


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/under-30s-may-get-vaccinated-early-under-new-plan-being-considered-to-slow-covid-19-1.4539770


    Just leaving this here for all those who were foaming at the mouth that teachers had the audacity to raise the issue of vacc for those who work with large numbers in less than ideal conditions. I presume the 18 - 30 year olds who can’t seem to follow guidelines and or restrict their socialising will fall in for the same level of vitriolic abuse as they push the elderly down the vacc queue. Before young teachers are mentioned as a stick they make up 13% of teaching staff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    lulublue22 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/under-30s-may-get-vaccinated-early-under-new-plan-being-considered-to-slow-covid-19-1.4539770

    Just leaving this here for all those who were foaming at the mouth that teachers had the audacity to raise the issue of vacc for those who work with large numbers in less than ideal conditions. I presume the 18 - 30 year olds who can’t seem to follow guidelines and or restrict their socialising will fall in for the same level of vitriolic abuse as they push the elderly down the vacc queue. Before young teachers are mentioned as a stick they make up 13% of teaching staff.
    Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly has asked officials to examine the possibility of revising the order of age cohorts scheduled to receive the vaccine

    Just leaving this here...Paul Reid was completely unaware of this when asked. It looks like a solo run thus far. It has caused a huge amount of confusion and is being criticised all morning on the radio, even by doctors.

    It doesn't alter the justified criticism aimed at the teacher's unions when they demanded priority and threatened strike. To my knowledge the 18-30 year olds are not demanding priority or threatening to strike.

    If you see it as 'foaming' and 'vitriol', that's a you problem. I see it as debate.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 556 ✭✭✭shtpEdthePlum


    Darc19 wrote: »
    Typical tabloid muck that hopes no-one will question anything - but maybe you took it from others and because it suits your agenda, you didn't question anything yourself - so lets correct your statements

    1 - Very Important for a dail to sit to debate legislation. Yes it costs €25,000 (zero rent) but much of that €25k would also have been spent in Leinster house. Whoops - did you not know that?

    2 - ONE junior minister got a pay rise of 16k as it was an additional junior minister and ensured they were paid the same amount as the others. The optics were not great and the rag tabloids did not report it correctly, but that's not surprising. And then some people believe everything tabloids because they won't check for themselves.

    3 - Printer. Yes this was a cock-up by an OPW staff member. Human error. However the additional cost was not €1m it was €314,453. 70% LESS than your BS number

    4 - E Voting. Nothing wrong with it whatsoever. But the journalists & media suddenly saw that the 3-5 days of reporting on elections and count centres with the relevant expenses and advertising income would be wiped out as these machines would give accurate results in minutes went on a campaign against them. These machines were not connected to internet. they were all secure standalone machines. They simply could not be hacked. But the media who are not exactly a trustworthy source were having none of it and started the campaign against the machines

    5 - Children's Hospital. "Billions" over budget. Total cost will be about 2BN. So for your wild exaggeration to be true would mean it was originally to be built for zero. (I sincerely hope you are not a teacher with this type of BS exaggeration - though it very much in the style of ASTI propaganda)


    6 - Legal teams on a retainer. I actually agree with this. Too many people look for compo compo compo. "It's always someone else's fault" it the mantra. So it is prudent for the government to keep updated files where a claim may come in the future. Error was in not keeping the files fully secure.

    7. Tribunals. I'll give you that one. Mostly a waste of money because people want "retribution" rather than closing the loopholes, introduce severe penalties and move on.

    8 - More tabloid BS. Cork is the second city and all projects went though the same process as others. If anything it has not received the favouritism that other counties got when they had relevant ministers. But there are some who believe every word of a leftist tabloid without checking very basic facts

    9 - The old Bank Bailout chestnut. It was a "Banking" bailout. The banks themselves certainly did not get a bailout - it was joe soap the regular person who had their savings in the banks who was bailed out as their saving were protected. Without the banking bailout ASTI would have lost millions as their deposits would have been wiped out. Banks (except those which closed) have mostly repaid the money along with punitive interest and levies. Bank of Ireland have repaid in full. AIB still have a bit to go. The cost will be circa €30bn - almost entirely Anglo & Irish Nationwide. - As for bondholders, they should not be burnt as they are a holy grail for international lending. Iceland burnt bondholders - they ended up paying for that error in higher bond rates for the last 12 years. Ireland has saved BILLIONS from refinancing bonds at zero and negative rates.


    Your BS post is exactly why the ASTI are despised by people - full of exaggeration and hype. It why more and more teachers are leaving the ASTI as they simply are sick of the BS spouted by second rate leadership day in day out with a large cohort of retired teachers pulling the strings

    All of this should be in the conspiracy theory form.


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