The scandal and thrill of watching same-sex kissing on TV

Homelander wrote: »

But you have formed an opinion based on a vague, anonymous and entirely likely bogus article. You've used it above to highlight so called opposition to gay couples showing basic affection in public - and claimed people on this site supported it.

When in the original thread, people were a) skeptical of the story and b) talking about being against PDA in public.

I do not think it "entirely likely" bogus. It is _possibly_ not accurate but that's the same thing you can say about any article in any news paper. There is nothing that particularly makes this article any more likely to be bogus or incomplete than any other. Other than pretence. Articles in our media should inform us but also be taken with caution. But arbitrarily calling one more likely to be bogus than any other - that is just random guess work probably fuelled or influenced by bias.

But no I did not "Form an opinion based on" any one article. The article is an example of something - nothing more. My opinions on the topic of sexuality - peoples response to the sexuality of others - PDA - and the progress of society for which we should take pride as is the subject of the thread - are all things I have formed over many years of direct and indirect experience and study.

Homelander wrote: »

It's an agony aunt letter.

What I read was not a letter no. Perhaps the issue here is we both read different things and so we are talking past each other?

As I said I can only go on what was reported. I can not make up facts to suit myself. But as I also said it was an _example_ and nothing more. If we get caught up discussing an example or analogy - rather than the point that was being made while referring to the example or analogy - then conversation tends to break down. In my experience.

The thread - my point - and the example are all related to one theme. The normalisation of behaviours over time that once might have been considered offensive or scandalous or shocking - but which are now so accepted that for the most part they hardly get noticed.

Regardless of whether the restaurant story was real or not - the point is that the number of people who are likely to be bothered - hell who are likely to even notice - mild PDA between two men in a public setting seems to be dying off.

I fear there will always be an offended minority who are bothered by minutia. Threads on boards about things like breast feeding in public are testament to that for example. Most people do not see the issue or care - but there is always one or two calling it vile or disgusting or inappropriate or wrong or bad manners or whatever label they decide to pluck out of nowhere and act like it is a defacto standard outside their own heads.

The MO tends to be the same though. They can not actually argue in any way that the act is wrong. So they simply shout that it is "bad manners" or "inappropriate" as if that automatically means it is. Just like back when the first on screen gay kisses happened there were likely people shouting about how wrong it was. Ask a single one of them why or how it was actually wrong - and I sincerely doubt any of them had an answer. A doubt I base on having been in many many conversations over the last 20 years about homosexuality with people who shouted about how wrong it was - but when asked how or why it was wrong simply could not say. Cept of course for the "God made adam and eve not adam and steve" folks of course. They at least _had_ a reason even if the reason was nonsense.

Homelander wrote: »

Using it as an example of modern day opposition to gay couples is laughable.

Lucky that is not what I was using it as an example of then isn't it? I was using it as an example of the opposite. That such opposition and the people fuelling such opposition are dying off more and more. The whole point of the example was that it was _5 years ago_. Like the Gay Cake Controversy. I was using it as an example of how I feel we have come a long way - over many years but continuing to in the last 5 too.

Now maybe there still are such stories happening and I have simply missed them. My engagement with news media has been reduced of late. But the point of my citing that example was that I had to go back 5 years just to think of an example.

So I think my point is not "laughable" because my intent was the direct opposite of the reason you would find it laughable.

Homelander wrote: »

And, you already claimed that people on this site supported it in principle. Please link to where people supported it, rather than questioned the article or stated opposition to general PDA.

Not the claim I made. My exact words were "a minority then too argued either in favour of them being asked to leave - or in favour of the expectation that the management _should_ be expected to do something about it.". That is that they were arguing in favour of the couple being asked to leave or the management to intervene in PDA. In _this_ example it was homosexual PDA but nowhere in my words did I say I was limiting my comment to just that.

So why would I need to link to people stating more than "opposition to general PDA" when my position does not demand that? You are asking me to evidence claims I have not actually made. However I do happily add that given that PDA is exceedingly common in public especially in restaurants which are traditionally one of the top destinations for romantic dates remember - it is interesting how few cases we hear of heterosexual PDAs attracting comment - let alone removal - in such contexts.

PDA for me is rare. Not consciously any more - it is just the person I am. But I still do do them. In the past if I felt a moment of PDA coming on I would check myself. Pull my hand back. Simply because there was a background fear that abuse or violence would follow. Because PDA in my relationship - simply because my relationship differs a bit from the norm - has actually on a number of occasions sparked abuse and violence. But over time I have found that fear has died off into the background and then disappeared. And this is a _good thing_. I like the occasional PDA. Or more accurately I like DA - the P is incidental and I neither want to perform DA nor withold DA solely because the P is or is not in play.

Especially in restaurants. It is nice to reach over and hold hands between courses. Sometimes nice to feed each other samples of our own dishes for the other to try. If I go to a restaurant with either of my girlfriends - which I have done innumerable times over the last 10 years - there has not been one single situation where this appears to have attracted any attention at all that I have been made aware of. However when they go and do this with each other - without me - and do exactly the same thing: Well thankfully responses have been rare but not non-existent. They have never been outright asked to leave - but they have been asked to stop and/or it was suggested they "might like to leave". But again of the number of anecdotes they have about this - the near totality of them are in the first half of our relationship not the latter. Why? Well I can only guess - but again my guess is that this simply has normalised over time and now less people care or even notice.

That is an anecdote of one of course and I get that. Our experiences are not a universal and I would not pretend them to be so. But PDAs are happening all the time everywhere. And I think the topic of this thread - forgive me OP if I am wrong - is that one particular group of people are singled out disproportionately for comment abuse or even violence historically for this. And the "pride" worth celebrating not just by that group but by society as a whole is that this appears to be dying off more and more. And what once would have been a "scandal" to us is now not at all except to a tiny vocal angry group of moaners. I take some pride in that myself because I have done a lot of activism work around the subject of rights and acceptance of sexualities. Perhaps my overall effect as an individual is tiny for sure - but I still feel I can share in the pride and credit that the OP speaks so passionately about.

Anyway the entire thread for the discussion about it at the time was here. It is overall not a great read of a thread. And admittedly I am not blameless for that myself

Grab All Association wrote: »

The lesbian kiss scene in the movie Thirteen is hot.

Actual kiss scenes I do not think are all that hot myself. It is what goes on around the kiss that I find more compelling.

A 17 year old Saoirse Ronan is a good example in the movie Hanna. There is a teen girls kissing scene in that one. I remember the lead up - and I remember that ultimately the little brother of one of the girls bursts in and ruins the moment.

All I remember of the scene was how well they captured the tension of the kiss. Including some intimate camera work and some ASMR style sound recording of the girls talking.

To be absolutely honest I can not remember if they ever actually kiss. The kiss - if it even happened - was irrelevant and incidental. If it happened then I found it not at all memorable.

But the intimacy and tension of the lead up to the possible kiss I found very moving and memorable.

In some ways - I do hope it is

Sonics2k wrote: »

How pathetically fragile must you be to have to change channel or look away when two men kiss on TV?

Ah I dunno - I have a respect for people who realise they are the ones with the issue and simply change the channel - or get up and leave the restaurant - or turn their back - and get on with their lives.

The pathetic fragile ones are the ones who write to the news paper - the tv station - or complain to the management to get the object of their offence removed or censored. Declaring things to be "inappropriate" or "bad manners" or "offensive" when they really aren't.

As if society's job is to protect them from themselves and their own sense of privilege and offence. That we should all be falling over ourselves to censor or curtail our own words and deeds in case _they_ might get offended by it.