Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
05-04-2019, 13:15   #1
bob mcbob
Registered User
 
bob mcbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 587
Is this the future for renewable energy generation

On Orkney they are putting a trial in place that links energy demand, supply and storage via a smart grid trial. Even the batteries on EVs will be used to meet demand during peak time.

Is this the future ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotla...tland-47785050
bob mcbob is offline  
Advertisement
05-04-2019, 15:48   #2
Down South
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob mcbob
On Orkney they are putting a trial in place that links energy demand, supply and storage via a smart grid trial. Even the batteries on EVs will be used to meet demand during peak time.
Cork co Solo Energy involved
Down South is offline  
13-06-2019, 11:38   #3
Graces7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 28,771
The small outer north orkney island I lived many years on already had a few wind turbines when i was there . http://www.surfnturf.org.uk/page/renewables

The tides they write of used to prevent ships getting us home. every island pensioner was given a small windmill generator

This surely is the way forward with the winds we get here : I am west coast offshore.

Is there not already a windfarm being created off Belmullet?e
Graces7 is offline  
Thanks from:
14-06-2019, 19:49   #4
Ubbquittious
Registered User
 
Ubbquittious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,291
I dunno about this carry on using EV batteries to help the grid along. EV batteries are pretty much non recyclable at the moment and people should be trying to preserve them as long as possible. Maybe it will be worth doing if they move away from Lithium ion to something more durable
Ubbquittious is offline  
15-06-2019, 01:08   #5
Capt'n Midnight
00:00
 
Capt'n Midnight's Avatar
I'd need to see real numbers on using EV batteries.


http://lg.sem-o.com/Pages/default.aspx
Today's price was between €60 to €100 per MWh
ie. 6c to 10c a Unit but the 10c price was during peak demand when people come home from work and presumably charge the car.

The other peak price was when people started work in the morning, again I'd imagine they'd be charging then too.

But if we pretend that people who have just finished driving are OK with the grid draining their batteries. Then you have a max differential of 4c in the price of a unit. A Leaf has a 40KWh battery so could hold €1.60 of electricity, not including energy conversion losses. Add in the reduced demand with so may EV's chasing that fee, and it's probably only a euro worth. And there's the depreciation on the batteries as they have finite life cycles and cost thousands to replace.

It's just a subsidy for battery makers.

Using car batteries to charge other car batteries over the grid at peak demand is a waste of energy, ie charging low batteries after the commute.


Load shedding would be a much cheaper way of doing the same thing.
Smart storage and water heaters. Pumped storage. Water pumps.
Capt'n Midnight is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
15-06-2019, 01:11   #6
Capt'n Midnight
00:00
 
Capt'n Midnight's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubbquittious View Post
I dunno about this carry on using EV batteries to help the grid along. EV batteries are pretty much non recyclable at the moment and people should be trying to preserve them as long as possible. Maybe it will be worth doing if they move away from Lithium ion to something more durable
Lithium is light. Lead is heavy. It's that simple.
Super duper capacitors would be nice but don't hold your breath.

Aluminium-Air might be possible but that means shipping the aluminium oxide back to Iceland to use hydro electric to convert it back to the metal.
Capt'n Midnight is offline  
21-06-2019, 15:19   #7
ednwireland
Moderator
 
ednwireland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,516
you do know that the esb is putting in planning for large battery storage areas around the country. this one i beleive has been granted planning now near carrick on shannon.

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/loca...lity-flagford/

its controversial as its on a flood plain (and the loacals dont like the idea of 30 40 foot containers)
ednwireland is offline  
23-06-2019, 12:11   #8
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by ednwireland View Post
you do know that the esb is putting in planning for large battery storage areas around the country. this one i beleive has been granted planning now near carrick on shannon.

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/loca...lity-flagford/

its controversial as its on a flood plain (and the loacals dont like the idea of 30 40 foot containers)
That news is March 2018.
Couldn't find anything more recent....can you help ?
rolion is offline  
24-06-2019, 17:17   #9
ednwireland
Moderator
 
ednwireland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolion View Post
That news is March 2018.
Couldn't find anything more recent....can you help ?
https://www.shannonside.ie/news/loca...bord-pleanala/

or you could read the facebook opage of the people opposing it (once your through the phone and laptop fire scare stories)
https://www.facebook.com/pg/STOP-Car...7274098/posts/

Last edited by ednwireland; 24-06-2019 at 17:21.
ednwireland is offline  
Advertisement
24-06-2019, 18:37   #10
ted1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by ednwireland View Post
you do know that the esb is putting in planning for large battery storage areas around the country. this one i beleive has been granted planning now near carrick on shannon.

https://www.shannonside.ie/news/loca...lity-flagford/

its controversial as its on a flood plain (and the loacals dont like the idea of 30 40 foot containers)
Are you sure that’s the ESB? Isn’t it a private company ?
ted1 is offline  
25-06-2019, 13:51   #11
ednwireland
Moderator
 
ednwireland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 12,516
Quote:
Originally Posted by ted1 View Post
Are you sure that’s the ESB? Isn’t it a private company ?
yes it does look like a private company but nevertheles - large battery storage units are planned linked to the grid
ednwireland is offline  
25-06-2019, 16:19   #12
bob mcbob
Registered User
 
bob mcbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by ednwireland View Post
yes it does look like a private company but nevertheles - large battery storage units are planned linked to the grid
This one opened in Scotland last year

https://environmentjournal.online/ar...s-in-scotland/
bob mcbob is offline  
05-07-2019, 22:43   #13
unkel
King Elon I
 
unkel's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ubbquittious View Post
EV batteries are pretty much non recyclable at the moment
You couldn't be further from the truth. EV batteries are 100% recycled and retain a ridiculously high value. People want them to build home powerwalls, convert cars to EV, etc.

This is one of the better deals, a Tesla battery. Second hand, 3 years old. Not much change from twenty grand

Linky
unkel is offline  
06-07-2019, 13:02   #14
Capt'n Midnight
00:00
 
Capt'n Midnight's Avatar
Quote:
Originally Posted by unkel View Post
This is one of the better deals, a Tesla battery. Second hand, 3 years old. Not much change from twenty grand
90kWh so it could store 90 units when new and it will lose capacity over time



If you have your own wind turbine and it's saving you 20c per unit (€18 full charge in theory) as well as the ESB standing charges and rural connection fees and grid independence is worth it to you then maybe.


If you are in the wholesale market and storing grid electricity when it's 4c and selling 90% of it (conversion losses) back at 7c then that twenty grand battery is only worth €2 a charge.

You can play with the numbers but expect the rules to change during the payback time. Really you are depending on payments for being a standby source and there'll be more competition there in future.
Capt'n Midnight is offline  
06-07-2019, 15:36   #15
Ubbquittious
Registered User
 
Ubbquittious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,291
Quote:
Originally Posted by unkel View Post
You couldn't be further from the truth. EV batteries are 100% recycled and retain a ridiculously high value. People want them to build home powerwalls, convert cars to EV, etc.

This is one of the better deals, a Tesla battery. Second hand, 3 years old. Not much change from twenty grand

Linky

That one is still good, but when all the cells are shagged they will only be downcycled into pots and pans. If I was dropping 20 g's on one the last thing I'd be doing with it is needlessly wasting it's cycles so some feicer down the road can leave their immersion switched on
Ubbquittious is offline  
Thanks from:
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet