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Seller refusing electrician and plumber visit

13

Comments

  • #62
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Is it not normal for engineers to point out the limitations of their visual inspection? Has your engineer actually described this to you as something really important. Any engineer I've used has always pointed out what they couldn't determine to be alright but I could tell it was boilerplate arse covering.

    If your solicitor is also good at finding potential issues, then it may be just a case of you sending the wrong signals to the buyer.

    Buying a house is a big deal and mentally stressful. It's normal to be a bit paranoid. At the end of the day you have to make a judgement call on which issues really matter.

    I once lost out on a good property because I queried the land registry documents for the property. What was described as 5 acres turned out to be 3.5 acres. I was eventually proven to be correct but I still lost out on the purchase.

    He can not determine as he cannot access it and has recommended cctv exploration. We have a company lined up.


  • #63
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Quandary wrote: »
    We were sale agreed for 9 months before finally pulling out because the seller was evasive and awkward at almost every turn. We absolutely loved the house and were devastated to have to walk away but in hindsight we should have walked much sooner. The straw(s) that broke the camels back for us was the seller refusing to provide essential planning related documentation and there were question marks over a right of way issue which the seller also refused to clarify.

    It turned out to be a great decision because we ended up in a house we love just as much!

    If I was you I would start actively viewing other properties, and let the seller know ye will be withdrawing from the sale unless he is willing to facilitate yer requests.

    Don't let your heart make a decision you know you should be making with your head.

    Best of luck :)

    Given the sheer pressure we have been put under in the last couple of weeks to sign contracts, the sudden cancellation of our plumber and now saying no one else can gain access, if we do now get access, I cannot shake the doubts I now have.

    There is no good reason to deny access especially since they cancelled on us initially.

    It all went pear shaped once we told them we need to check the concern regarding the pipes.


  • #64
    Sonny noggs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Sonny noggs


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Given the sheer pressure we have been put under in the last couple of weeks to sign contracts, the sudden cancellation of our plumber and now saying no one else can gain access, if we do now get access, I cannot shake the doubts I now have.

    There is no good reason to deny access especially since they cancelled on us initially.

    It all went pear shaped once we told them we need to check the concern regarding the pipes.

    So pull the plug and withdraw your offer. Don't waste any more time or money on this property.


  • #65
    KOR101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    He can not determine as he cannot access it and has recommended cctv exploration. We have a company lined up.
    My engineer said the same about the septic tank. He also said that I could ask him to do a more invasive inspection (rather than purely visual) of the house but that would need the seller's permission. He didn't say either thing with any conviction or emphasis.


    Anyway best of luck with your purchase. Things sometimes work out well. :)


  • #66
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    The engineer could not access the manhole out the back. They have raised the level of part of the back by half a meter. There is a cover at new garden level which opens and exposes the original manhole. That has been essentially wedged shut by the the resining of the garden. He said you’d nearly need to smash the cover to access it. He recommended a specially with CCTV to check it.

    Doesn't sound like something that can be easily approached or assessed- sounds like you either take a risk on it or move on to a new property- but the fact that the vendors aren't allowing you do anything does sound like there's a specific issue there.


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  • #67
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    kceire wrote: »
    I’m not saying the vendors are hiding or not hiding anything here but it would be extremely rare to allow plumbers and electricians into a Propety you are buying.

    The norm would be your Surveyor for the visual pre purchase survey. Anything beyond that is out of the norm.

    Thanks for the reply. Apologies if I’m missing something but how is an engineer going to know if the electrics are needing replacing or the plumbing/heating is up to standard.

    Why are so many other people here calling it out as a red flag?

    Have we done things in a terrible order or something?


  • #68
    tricky D
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,700 ✭✭✭tricky D


    ted1 wrote: »
    Three weeks isn’t a long time when it comes to house contracts.
    Quite quick really, especially considering August is holiday month for many solicitors (and those in building trades).


  • #69
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 8,856 ✭✭✭[Deleted User]


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply. Apologies if I’m missing something but how is an engineer going to know if the electrics are needing replacing or the plumbing/heating is up to standard.

    Why are so many other people here calling it out as a red flag?

    Have we done things in a terrible order or something?

    No you haven't.

    Here's what you could do. Ask your solicitor to talk to their solicitor- outline the concerns. Tell them that if there's no issue found, you're good to complete the sale. Even if there is something found, or if the vendors are willing to state any known issue, you still might go through with the sale- but right now, you can't progress until this issue is cleared up.

    Now that, is reasonable- and if they refuse, then I'd get out quickly and get on with starting your search again.


  • #70
    PropertyHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭PropertyHunt


    Very interesting thread, I would think in most cases perspective purchasers go for Surveyor to look at the place.
    My understanding Surveyors will do so much examination, but can't see certain things such as pipes underneath, so in addition to surveyors, who else should a buyer get in before proceeding?
    -Electrician?
    -Who else?
    In terms of gardens, are there any unforeseen issues?
    If you want to be 110%, who else would you get in to check a house.


  • #71
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    PropertyHunt wrote: »
    Very interesting thread, I would think in most cases perspective purchasers go for Surveyor to look at the place.
    My understanding Surveyors will do so much examination, but can't see certain things such as pipes underneath, so in addition to surveyors, who else should a buyer get in before proceeding?
    -Electrician?
    -Who else?
    In terms of gardens, are there any unforeseen issues?
    If you want to be 110%, who else would you get in to check a house.

    You can get in whomever you want, of course you will have to pay them, and unlike a surveyor they do not have to stand over the opinions they give you.


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  • #72
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Thanks for the reply. Apologies if I’m missing something but how is an engineer going to know if the electrics are needing replacing or the plumbing/heating is up to standard.

    Why are so many other people here calling it out as a red flag?

    Have we done things in a terrible order or something?

    It’s not the engineers job to do that.
    Or surveyors for that matter. You are buying a property from a particular period. The standard of the build is to that period. If you don’t like that, you don’t buy. The house doesn’t have to be up to any greater standard than the standards in place at the time of construction.

    Are purchase survey is to highlight any possible issues, areas to which you can upgrade in the future or areas of concern at the moment.

    If I point out cracking in a table wall, I recommend an engineers inspection and tell tail placement to monitor the cracks, but that takes a period of 2-3 months to rule out the risk of structural cracking or seasonal cracking.

    If the vendors don’t allow that then you as the purchaser have to make the decision whether to buy or not.

    Same goes for the plumbing. If it’s a 90’s built house, then you expect 90’s plumbing. If it requires updating, you factor that into your offer and decide to buy or not.


  • #73
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    PropertyHunt wrote: »
    Very interesting thread, I would think in most cases perspective purchasers go for Surveyor to look at the place.
    My understanding Surveyors will do so much examination, but can't see certain things such as pipes underneath, so in addition to surveyors, who else should a buyer get in before proceeding?
    -Electrician?
    -Who else?
    In terms of gardens, are there any unforeseen issues?
    If you want to be 110%, who else would you get in to check a house.

    Surveyor for initial pre purchase survey and to pick up on any planning requests.
    Engineer for structural inspection (visual only, no invasive inspection).
    Plumber for plumbing.
    Electrician for electrics.

    Of course, you’d have to get the vendors permission for all these and you’d have to pay all these guys for their time spent there on the day and the time spent putting together some form of written reply. Could cost €2k. Not bad if you only do it once!


  • #74
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    kceire wrote: »
    Surveyor for initial pre purchase survey and to pick up on any planning requests.
    Engineer for structural inspection (visual only, no invasive inspection).
    Plumber for plumbing.
    Electrician for electrics.

    Of course, you’d have to get the vendors permission for all these and you’d have to pay all these guys for their time spent there on the day and the time spent putting together some form of written reply. Could cost €2k. Not bad if you only do it once!

    And that’s what we are attempting to do and we are being blocked by the vendor.


  • #75
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    And that’s what we are attempting to do and we are being blocked by the vendor.

    How long has it been since bid accepted and deposit paid?

    Like others, I agree it is odd for the seller not to allow your tradesmen in, particularly if it would expedite the sale, On the other hand they may feel you delayed by not getting it done before this, what legal papers did the engineer need before doing the survey? If you haven’t signed any contracts, both parties can walk away and apart from your professional fees, you aren’t out of pocket.


  • #76
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    And that’s what we are attempting to do and we are being blocked by the vendor.

    It wouldn't be the normal process to be honest.
    Most will stop at Pre-Purchase Survey.


  • #77
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    kceire wrote: »
    It wouldn't be the normal process to be honest.
    Most will stop at Pre-Purchase Survey.

    Thanks for the feedback kceire - all the advice we received was to do the survey first and then do any other visits based on that.

    To be fair, we asked for access for the plumber two weeks ago and they cancelled that on us. We also gave them a heads up prior to the engineering report being finished that we will need to check the sewage pipes due to the possibility of damage.


  • #78
    Hooked
    Registered Users Posts: 2,766 ✭✭✭Hooked


    Had a similar experience 2 years back - constant pressure, being awkward with our engineers report/access, etc... Smelt a rat.

    11 pages of a report later, and we ran a mile from what we thought was our "dream house". I even had a buyer for my own place, who I reluctantly was stringing along, as I'd no other choice. Pulled the plug on the sale of both. Best decision I ever made looking back as I found out later that there were 35-50K of issues the auctioneer/seller was trying to hide.

    They also hid info about out-buildings and extension "build dates" as they were all dodgy.

    I bet I could even name the auctioneer!


  • #79
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 13,970 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    kceire wrote: »
    It wouldn't be the normal process to be honest.
    Most will stop at Pre-Purchase Survey.

    And it would be done pretty quickly after bid accepted,.

    Op, is this a case where bid was accepted 3 months ago and you are only doing survey recently?


  • #80
    Irishcrx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,861 ✭✭✭Irishcrx


    You have to follow your gut on these things as well as your head and both of mine would be telling me that the seller is being unreasonable and attempting to hide issues with the house , it's perfectly acceptable for you to want to be dillegent on a property you are about to spend an awful lot of money on.

    I would say if you pull out they actually won't react , if there is known issues with the property and they know that you will find them they will attempt this again with the next buyer.

    Walk away , find somewhere else you love be your future best friend.


  • #81
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,231 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Ate there currently tenants in the house that may not be obliging these visits ?


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  • #82
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    ted1 wrote: »
    Ate there currently tenants in the house that may not be obliging these visits ?

    The owners are living there and haven’t budged in their decision to deny access.

    Had a cousin of mine (plumber but knows wiring very well) took a look at engineer reporting and says he doesn’t think any electrician would ever sign off on the modifications they have done (took fusebox out of main house and into a leaky external garage).

    I’d love to get an electrician take a look at the pics and vid I took.


  • #83
    Black_Knight
    Moderators Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Black_Knight


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    The owners are living there and haven’t budged in their decision to deny access.

    Had a cousin of mine (plumber but knows wiring very well) took a look at engineer reporting and says he doesn’t think any electrician would ever sign off on the modifications they have done (took fusebox out of main house and into a leaky external garage).

    I’d love to get an electrician take a look at the pics and vid I took.

    Once more... run!


  • #84
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,452 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    The owners are living there and haven’t budged in their decision to deny access.

    Had a cousin of mine (plumber but knows wiring very well) took a look at engineer reporting and says he doesn’t think any electrician would ever sign off on the modifications they have done (took fusebox out of main house and into a leaky external garage).

    I’d love to get an electrician take a look at the pics and vid I took.

    Think about what you want to happen, they're not going to move a fusebox for you, if you are looking for a reduction in price, then call that out, and let them refuse, moving a fusebox is a bit of hassle, but not really that big a deal. An engineers report will describe in gruesome detail what it will take to get the building up to modern standards, but that is all information for the buyer to use, there is nothing that the seller has to do with it. You need to cut through to the main issues why you don't want to sign the contract, and either try and resolve them or walk away, as a seller, I'd have probably put the house back on the market by now (though I would have allowed a plumber inspection, though been annoyed that it took 3 weeks for the survey to be organised).

    As an aside, fuseboxes in the garage was pretty common in the past, presumably the garage didn't always leak either, but unless the current owners have been seeing it trip, then they wouldn't count it as a problem.

    If this is as the top of your budget, and you don't have the money to remediate these issues yourself, then you should probably walk away as well.


  • #85
    jochenstacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭jochenstacker


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    The owners are living there and haven’t budged in their decision to deny access.

    Had a cousin of mine (plumber but knows wiring very well) took a look at engineer reporting and says he doesn’t think any electrician would ever sign off on the modifications they have done (took fusebox out of main house and into a leaky external garage).

    I’d love to get an electrician take a look at the pics and vid I took.

    All you can do is issue them a very clear ultimatum.
    Either they provide access to any tradesperson of your choosing, or you will call the purchase off.
    You need to be very clear on this.

    Dear Seller,

    due to concerns about the property for sale, we will need to have it inspected by our experts.
    If you are not prepared to facilitate this, we will call the deal off immediately.
    If we do not hear back from you within 3 working days, we will also take this as a refusal and cancel the purchase of your property.

    Regards,

    FutureGuy

    No discussion, no pissing about on internet forums for flippin' weeks, it has been said over and over and the answer won't change.
    Get the finger out, get on to them and let them know NOW what the deal is.
    Personally I would write them this exact letter and maybe throw in a line, if they don't see themselves able to conduct a sale in a professional manner, they will have difficulty selling this house at all.
    This is a house sale. You're not concerned about hurt feelings. People need to be told what's what in clear and concise terms, or they will forever fcuk you about.


  • #86
    FutureGuy
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,226 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    jochenstacker wrote: »
    All you can do is issue them a very clear ultimatum.
    Either they provide access to any tradesperson of your choosing, or you will call the purchase off.
    You need to be very clear on this.

    Dear Seller,

    due to concerns about the property for sale, we will need to have it inspected by our experts.
    If you are not prepared to facilitate this, we will call the deal off immediately.
    If we do not hear back from you within 3 working days, we will also take this as a refusal and cancel the purchase of your property.

    Regards,

    FutureGuy

    No discussion, no pissing about on internet forums for flippin' weeks, it has been said over and over and the answer won't change.
    Get the finger out, get on to them and let them know NOW what the deal is.
    Personally I would write them this exact letter and maybe throw in a line, if they don't see themselves able to conduct a sale in a professional manner, they will have difficulty selling this house at all.
    This is a house sale. You're not concerned about hurt feelings. People need to be told what's what in clear and concise terms, or they will forever fcuk you about.

    Thanks for this, I spoke to my wife this morning and came to the same conclusion. I've been bending over backwards for the vendors for weeks and getting zilch in return.


  • #87
    jochenstacker
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 390 ✭✭jochenstacker


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Thanks for this, I spoke to my wife this morning and came to the same conclusion. I've been bending over backwards for the vendors for weeks and getting zilch in return.

    Also, they might decide to call your bluff and say "fine, cancel then".
    It is important that you do with no hesitation.
    And I'm willing to bet that after a few weeks they will have a miraculous change of heart and will be a lot more cooperative.
    Money running through someone's fingers can do wonders to focus one's mind.
    And if they don't, don't worry, you dodged a bullet.


  • #88
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,427 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    I think I'd contact the estate agent immediately as well, to say you're expecting your deposit back in 3 days time, (or whatever), and why..
    I'm sure they'll phone the vendor immediately too, to see what the f is going on...

    It could still be just a couple with odd expectations of the sales process, but still if they're that odd don't risk it.. Run

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #89
    STB.
    Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    The owners are living there and haven’t budged in their decision to deny access.

    Had a cousin of mine (plumber but knows wiring very well) took a look at engineer reporting and says he doesn’t think any electrician would ever sign off on the modifications they have done (1. took fusebox out of main house and into a leaky external garage).

    2. I’d love to get an electrician take a look at the pics and vid I took.


    1. No professional would do that. A gunthered home jobby.

    2. Why don't you do just that. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1018


  • #90
    KOR101
    Registered Users Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Update?


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  • #91
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,278 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Update?

    Its not a soap opera.


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