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22-05-2020, 16:32   #136
Dav010
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Very little risk in this imo. Most jobs that can be outsourced already are and many have been in-sourced again as it generally doesn't work well. Then there are plenty of other reasons like skill sets, regulatory reasons, tax reasons, grants and supports etc etc
But outsourced jobs prior to this meant lay offs, unions, bad publicity etc. For new hires, companies had to consider how a candidate would fit in, would they relocate, will they be able to find accommodation etc, now what I am curious about is, is it necessary for a new hire for a “WFH job” to be physically in Ireland? If this is the way tech/financial are going, it seems to me that it’s like turkeys voting for Christmas if the employer can hire from any workforce worldwide.

Coincidentally, on the Last Word at the moment they are discussing WFH. Apparently Facebook are planning to lower wages paid to employees who WFH as they will not have cost of commuting or living in expensive cities.

Last edited by Dav010; 22-05-2020 at 16:40.
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22-05-2020, 16:45   #137
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But outsourced jobs prior to this meant lay offs, unions, bad publicity etc. For new hires, companies had to consider how a candidate would fit in, would they relocate, will they be able to find accommodation etc, now what I am curious about is, is it necessary for a new hire for a “WFH job” to be physically in Ireland? If this is the way tech/financial are going, it seems to me that it’s like turkeys voting for Christmas if the employer can hire from any workforce worldwide.

Coincidentally, on the Last Word at the moment they are discussing WFH. Apparently Facebook are planning to lower wages paid to employees who WFH as they will not have cost of commuting or living in expensive cities.
I'd say Facebook are kite flying that one, it would be a mass exodus if people can earn more elsewhere! Also how do you square the person who bought the house in Shankill who now decided they don't want to commute to city centre, and somebody else who buys a house in Leitrim? If anything, Facebook should be saving money on very expensive office space, etc.
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22-05-2020, 16:48   #138
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I'd say Facebook are kite flying that one, it would be a mass exodus if people can earn more elsewhere! Also how do you square the person who bought the house in Shankill who now decided they don't want to commute to city centre, and somebody else who buys a house in Leitrim? If anything, Facebook should be saving money on very expensive office space, etc.
Imagine the insurance cost savings alone for one of their office spaces
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22-05-2020, 16:55   #139
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But outsourced jobs prior to this meant lay offs, unions, bad publicity etc. For new hires, companies had to consider how a candidate would fit in, would they relocate, will they be able to find accommodation etc, now what I am curious about is, is it necessary for a new hire for a “WFH job” to be physically in Ireland? If this is the way tech/financial are going, it seems to me that it’s like turkeys voting for Christmas if the employer can hire from any workforce worldwide.
Many tech companies could have done this long ago if they wanted but they haven't. The fact is to outsourcing to cheap countries barely works for low skilled call centre type work, it will not work for skilled jobs hence it has not already happened. Most jobs will require at least occasional time onsite also for meetings, training when you join etc and flying someone over from India is not practical. Its doable from an EU country say but then the wages wont be any cheaper so its really just a case of hiring the best person for the job which is what they would do now anyway.

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Coincidentally, on the Last Word at the moment they are discussing WFH. Apparently Facebook are planning to lower wages paid to employees who WFH as they will not have cost of commuting or living in expensive cities.
I don't see much of an issue, plenty could easily end up better off WFH with a small pay cut but owning a very nice house rather than renting a shoe box or sharing etc.
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22-05-2020, 17:02   #140
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Many tech companies could have done this long ago if they wanted but they haven't. The fact is to outsourcing to cheap countries barely works for low skilled call centre type work, it will not work for skilled jobs hence it has not already happened.



I don't see much of an issue, plenty could easily end up better off WFH with a small pay cut but owning a very nice house rather than renting a shoe box or sharing etc.
Nox, many companies could have a wfh policy, but didn’t, until now. Now they no longer need to put a face to the name, how long do you think it will be before employers start to look at cost savings by employing techs from other countries.

I can see how a domestic employee is necessary if everyone has to come into an office, but if they don’t have to physically come to work, then distance from the office is inconsequential, you just need to find someone to do the job right. It would be crazy for employers who have wfh policy not look at cheaper alternatives to do the same job.
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22-05-2020, 17:02   #141
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Originally Posted by nox001 View Post
Many tech companies could have done this long ago if they wanted but they haven't. The fact is to outsourcing to cheap countries barely works for low skilled call centre type work, it will not work for skilled jobs hence it has not already happened. Most jobs will require at least occasional time onsite also for meetings, training when you join etc and flying someone over from India is not practical. Its doable from an EU country say but then the wages wont be any cheaper so its really just a case of hiring the best person for the job which is what they would do now anyway.



I don't see much of an issue, plenty could easily end up better off WFH with a small pay cut but owning a very nice house rather than renting a shoe box or sharing etc.
Plenty (if not all) tech companies could have had people WFH permanently a long time ago but they didnt do that either.

Some people are getting a taste of WFH and think its some sort of game
changer. Its only a game changer if you are enabled to WFH to such a significant extent that your whereabouts become irrelevant.
I have yet to see that happen at any scale in 20% working in the industry.

In fact the only time I have seen it is when an employee who works from the office is moving for other reasons and the company doesnt want to lose them. Thats a small percentage of people.
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22-05-2020, 17:26   #142
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Plenty (if not all) tech companies could have had people WFH permanently a long time ago but they didnt do that either.

Some people are getting a taste of WFH and think its some sort of game
changer. Its only a game changer if you are enabled to WFH to such a significant extent that your whereabouts become irrelevant.
I have yet to see that happen at any scale in 20% working in the industry.

In fact the only time I have seen it is when an employee who works from the office is moving for other reasons and the company doesnt want to lose them. Thats a small percentage of people.
I don't think it has to even be 100% work from home to be honest to make it a significant advantage for many many people.

I have absolutely no interest in living in Dublin so that cuts out all Dublin jobs for me. However if I could live where I want in Co. Galway and WFH 70-80% of the time for a Dublin based company that would be perfectly doable imo. 1 day a week or two some weeks driving to Dublin to be onsite would be a non-issue. Up and down in the same day or stay up one night if doing two days. That's just an example.

Also many companies have allowed significant levels of WFH long before covid, in tech particularly I know two people working for a multinational who live on the other side of the country to where their job is based and come in a few days a month max sometimes months without coming in. They took these jobs as onsite and then wanted to move elsewhere and kept their job. I myself have only been in our main office for about 8 days since the start of the year with working from home or in a remote office alone the rest of the time. Without covid I probably would have been another 5 days in the office in the time since the lockdown began so it's making very little difference to me.

Last edited by nox001; 22-05-2020 at 17:32.
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22-05-2020, 18:35   #143
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The thing that most people are ignoring here in the WFH discussion is we STILL don't have widespread good broadband coverage in Ireland.

I'm working from home since the lockdown and the internet and phone signal have been painful. Moved to a rural location 5 years ago and I love it but the one downfall has been that despite trying every single option I still don't have good broadband.

Last option now is Eir, thought I was on the pigsback when they declared they have fibre broadband in the area. No, they came out, had a look and said they will need planning permission to get the line 6 feet from the P&T box to my house, initially promised a date of 4th May back in March, it's now been pushed back to 4th August and I'll believe it when I see it, say it will be 2021 at the very earliest.

Can't wait to get back to the office, lack of communication with people is so frustrating. Have to email or text because the phone signal is so bad they can't hear me.

Also, I got free meals at work so there hasn't been any overall saving for me considering I'm paying more electricity and heating (not so bad recently but winter would cost me a fortune).

Also miss the social interaction and the fact that you have to make yourself look presentable!!

Horses for courses I suppose and if I had a decent phone line and broadband I'd probably be a lot happier.
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22-05-2020, 22:14   #144
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Originally Posted by GreeBo View Post
Plenty (if not all) tech companies could have had people WFH permanently a long time ago but they didnt do that either.

Some people are getting a taste of WFH and think its some sort of game
changer. Its only a game changer if you are enabled to WFH to such a significant extent that your whereabouts become irrelevant.
I have yet to see that happen at any scale in 20% working in the industry.

In fact the only time I have seen it is when an employee who works from the office is moving for other reasons and the company doesnt want to lose them. Thats a small percentage of people.
Yours sounds like complete opinion.do you work in a multinational or WFH? Bit of a silly argument also people used and still use horses long after cars were invented. Things grow in popularity in time.

Last edited by smurgen; 22-05-2020 at 22:26.
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