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Are there any differences between having a religion and going to church, to a cult?

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  • Options
    #122
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Andy From Sligo wrote: »
    well?

    His Noodliness, the Flying Spaghetti Monster would surely slap you with His wet noodle.


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    #123
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    Wheety wrote: »
    That's a ridiculous question. You're asking why the universe exists?

    Do you think there has to be a why?

    Yes there must be a why. The alternative is absurd.


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    #124
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,014 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    We have no new information on the key questions of our why the Universe exists, what gives us life..etc

    We are no further along than our ancestors. In fact, maybe we are moving away from some deeper truths

    No new information as opposed to when...?

    The average religion is no nearer than anyone else when it comes to informing us on the key questions, either: why should we listen to a random church instead of doing our own learning? That's just lazy.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #125
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,014 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Eh, no.
    'Let there be light' is hardly an attempt to explain how the Universe was formed.

    Genesis makes an attempt to explain how the universe was formed beyond "let there be light" - problem is, people take it far too literally.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #126
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    No new information as opposed to when...?

    The average religion is no nearer than anyone else when it comes to informing us on the key questions, either: why should we listen to a random church instead of doing our own learning? That's just lazy.

    Exactly what I posited above. Neither science nor religion have the explained the fundemental question of existance - why does the Universe exist?


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    #127
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,014 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    CruelCoin wrote: »
    His Noodliness, the Flying Spaghetti Monster would surely slap you with His wet noodle.

    Ohh! What wouldn't I give to be slapped in the face! I sometimes hang awake at night dreaming of being slapped in the face with His wet noodle! Bloody favouritism...

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #128
    Deusexmachina
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭Deusexmachina


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Genesis makes an attempt to explain how the universe was formed beyond "let there be light" - problem is, people take it far too literally.

    'It is not how things are in the world that is mystical, but that it exists.' - Ludwig Wittgenstein


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    #129
    Nettle Soup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    Deusexmachina wrote: »
    Nettle Soup wrote: »
    Correct but neither should we believe the stuff that was made up my men to answer these questions.

    As I said above. We have no answers - either man made or divine.

    Yep and I am fine with that. Thinking about it wastes precious time.


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    #130
    CruelCoin
    Registered Users Posts: 4,468 ✭✭✭CruelCoin


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Ohh! What wouldn't I give to be slapped in the face! I sometimes hang awake at night dreaming of being slapped in the face with His wet noodle! Bloody favouritism...

    Giggity.

    The good book is full of favouritism.

    There is no gravity. Only his wet noodle holding us down (don't say it)

    Midgets are the chosen people as they receive more noodles and therefore more downwards pressure.


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    #131
    QueenMTBee
    Registered Users Posts: 188 ✭✭QueenMTBee


    deleted


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    #132
    KwackerJack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,126 ✭✭✭KwackerJack


    All it does is cause war and tears people apart.

    Think about it for a second, if religion vanished tomorrow we'd have very little to fight over. Maybe the powers that make money from war push and push religion for their personal gain.........

    The Catholic church is worth thrillons world wide yet in most Catholic countries there are poor areas that badly need funding, the Catholic church could take all of these people out of poverty but will not......so much for love thy neighbor!

    Think off all the natural disasters, Rape, kids being abused, tortured and killed as well as all ages and the list goes on. I'm no expert but surely if there was a god and he did "speak" to us he would say stop all this and be kind to one another....No??

    I don't believe in a god....I do believe there is a more supreme being out there but not a god!


    Everything that happens in this world bar natural causes is being controlled by humans, no point ij praying for this and that. All that needs to happens is people need to change, act, start, stop etc and the word will be a better place.

    Get on your knees and pray if it makes you feel better and that's your right to do so but it won't change the world that's for sure!

    At one stage there was no religion and we got on just fine and evolved without much disruption. Remember that many "gods" were the Sun, The Moon, the stars ect and these were worshipped at a time when humans had no idea what the sun, moon and stars were so really to us modern species the gods of early humans were fake.


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    #133
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    Perhaps Steve grows up to be a tyrant ten times worse than Hitler?

    Or Steve's spirit is much more in demand in the next plane of existence where we could be the only one who can save it?

    Prove me wrong!

    Or perhaps Pol Pot dies of old age!


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    #134
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    KwackerJack wrote: »
    All it does is cause war and tears people apart.

    Think about it for a second, if religion vanished tomorrow we'd have very little to fight over. Maybe the powers that make money from war push and push religion for their personal gain.........

    The Catholic church is worth thrillons world wide yet in most Catholic countries there are poor areas that badly need funding, the Catholic church could take all of these people out of poverty but will not......so much for love thy neighbor!

    Think off all the natural disasters, Rape, kids being abused, tortured and killed as well as all ages and the list goes on. I'm no expert but surely if there was a god and he did "speak" to us he would say stop all this and be kind to one another....No??

    I don't believe in a god....I do believe there is a more supreme being out there but not a god!


    Everything that happens in this world bar natural causes is being controlled by humans, no point ij praying for this and that. All that needs to happens is people need to change, act, start, stop etc and the word will be a better place.

    Get on your knees and pray if it makes you feel better and that's your right to do so but it won't change the world that's for sure!

    At one stage there was no religion and we got on just fine and evolved without much disruption. Remember that many "gods" were the Sun, The Moon, the stars ect and these were worshipped at a time when humans had no idea what the sun, moon and stars were so really to us modern species the gods of early humans were fake.

    Not really. Religions on their own aren't the cause for war, they are used as justifications and provide tribal identities.
    Wars are ultimately over resources and power.
    Although I think the 30 years war was more religious in nature.


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    #135
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Nettle Soup wrote: »
    Utter nonsense and you know it. It's cult speak.

    You do not need a religion to have morals.

    In your opinion. We probably define religion differently.


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    #136
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    In your opinion. We probably define religion differently.

    Why do you need religion to have morals?


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    #137
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Ipso wrote: »
    Why do you need religion to have morals?

    I see religion as a set of humanity’s collective consciousness, myths and stories written to teach the future generations about the tradegy of life, it’s pitfalls, and it’s meaning. It is intellectually dishonest to not think further than “god doesn’t exist”. It was written down pre scientific method. But science can’t pass on values and morality to those that don’t think deeply about accepting responsibility and “carrying their cross” and being nailed to it.


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    #138
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    Religions don't necessarily pass on morals. It is a moving target, the old testament is full of barbaric nonsense that people have no problem rejecting, yet it's supposed to come from god who is meant to give us our morals.


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    #139
    falinn merking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭falinn merking


    Ipso wrote: »
    Religions don't necessarily pass on morals. It is a moving target, the old testament is full of barbaric nonsense that people have no problem rejecting, yet it's supposed to come from god who is meant to give us our morals.

    Pity those Muslims could not reject all the crap in the Quran.
    “When your Lord revealed to the angels, ‘Truly I am with you. So, keep firm those who have believed. I will strike terror into the hearts of those who have disbelieved. So, strike them at the necks and cut off their fingers.’” 8:12


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    #140
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Ipso wrote: »
    Religions don't necessarily pass on morals. It is a moving target, the old testament is full of barbaric nonsense that people have no problem rejecting, yet it's supposed to come from god who is meant to give us our morals.

    That’s a bit too high level a synopsis. A couple of years ago I was an atheist scientist that dismissed it as rubbish. But now I interpret its meaning. Don’t judge the writers of the bible because they weren’t as enlightened as modern man.

    And it does come from God. God is the Self.


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    #141
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Verpiss dich wrote: »
    Pity those Muslims could not reject all the crap in the Quran.

    So teaching one of having responsibility for their actions or facing Hellish consequences is “crap”?


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    #142
    Princess Consuela Bananahammock
    Registered Users Posts: 33,014 ✭✭✭✭Princess Consuela Bananahammock


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    I see religion as a set of humanity’s collective consciousness, myths and stories written to teach the future generations about the tradegy of life, it’s pitfalls, and it’s meaning. It is intellectually dishonest to not think further than “god doesn’t exist”. It was written down pre scientific method. But science can’t pass on values and morality to those that don’t think deeply about accepting responsibility and “carrying their cross” and being nailed to it.

    I'd argue that no one can - some people are just born lazy or evil or without responsibility or whatever way you want to put it.

    I disagree with your definition of religion: a specific religion can be seen as that specific following's viewpoints on life and so on, but not humanity. Shi'ire Muslims who follow strict Sharia law, for example, are not an expression of all of humanitly. If you'd said "God" then I would have been more in agreement with you but a lot of fallacy with regard to morals is caused by people thinking that their religion's word is God's law and that religion and God are the same thing: they are most certainly not.

    Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.



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    #143
    falinn merking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭falinn merking


    The Bible does teach morals.

    Look at what we have without it.
    Somebody is injured or killed the first thing most people do is whip out their phone to stick it on social media.


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    #144
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »
    I'd argue that no one can - some people are just born lazy or evil or without responsibility or whatever way you want to put it.

    I disagree with your definition of religion: a specific religion can be seen as that specific following's viewpoints on life and so on, but not humanity. Shi'ire Muslims who follow strict Sharia law, for example, are not an expression of all of humanitly. If you'd said "God" then I would have been more in agreement with you but a lot of fallacy with regard to morals is caused by people thinking that their religion's word is God's law and that religion and God are the same thing: they are most certainly not.

    You are right. I meant religion in a very general sense of value structures.


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    #145
    falinn merking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭falinn merking


    I have a problem with anybody who has a problem with these.
    You shall have no other gods before Me.
    You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything.
    You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
    Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
    Honor your father and your mother.
    You shall not murder.
    You shall not commit adultery.
    You shall not steal.
    You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
    You shall not covet your neighbor's house, wife, or property.


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    #146
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Verpiss dich wrote: »
    I have a problem with anybody who has a problem with these.

    Most of those are fine but keep holy the Sabbath? Nah, I can't get on board with that.


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    #147
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    So people aren't allowed to belong to a religion other than Judaism, Christianity or Islam? Should the emergency services stop working on Sundays?
    And as for idols and blasphemy, well we've seen what people who think that's very important are like in recent years.


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    #148
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    HappyAsLarE wrote: »
    That’s a bit too high level a synopsis. A couple of years ago I was an atheist scientist that dismissed it as rubbish. But now I interpret its meaning. Don’t judge the writers of the bible because they weren’t as enlightened as modern man.

    And it does come from God. God is the Self.

    Wait I thought it was gods word, it doesn't get more enlightened than that.


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    #149
    falinn merking
    Closed Accounts Posts: 415 ✭✭falinn merking


    Ipso wrote: »
    So people aren't allowed to belong to a religion other than Judaism, Christianity or Islam? Should the emergency services stop working on Sundays?
    And as for idols and blasphemy, well we've seen what people who think that's very important are like in recent years.

    Sabbath is Saturday not Sunday on the 7th day God rested that would be Saturday.

    So having Saturday as a night to get pi**ed is not keeping the Sabbath holy.:eek:


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    #150
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Ipso wrote: »
    Wait I thought it was gods word, it doesn't get more enlightened than that.

    It is God’s word. Now who or what is God?


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    #151
    HappyAsLarE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭HappyAsLarE


    Ipso wrote: »
    So people aren't allowed to belong to a religion other than Judaism, Christianity or Islam? Should the emergency services stop working on Sundays?
    And as for idols and blasphemy, well we've seen what people who think that's very important are like in recent years.

    You should absolutely work on the Sabbath. That doesn’t mean you disregard the Sabbaths meaning of sacrifice for the future. To put off the expedient is a very important lesson.


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