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Seller refusing electrician and plumber visit

  • 16-08-2019 2:26pm
    #1
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Hi all, just looking for some advice.

    Sale agreed on a house. 3 bed semi d in a city centre. Their solicitor took 3 weeks for papers to get over to our solicitor and I feel that we have been pressured to make up that lost time since.

    This solicitor delay delayed our engineer who was going on hols. We eventually buckled to pressure and got a second engineer to do the survey and speed things up. They threatened to pull out so we got in a different engineer.

    We had the engineer out last Thursday week and we are awaiting the survey results, expected today. We asked for access for access for a plumber last week too but they cancelled on the day before. This was due the day before the engineer.

    Now we are being told they will not allow access to a plumber or any other visits and expect us to sign contracts on Wednesday. The engineer said in passing he cannot access the drains out the back but they need to be checked via cctv as there is clear subsidence on a neighbours extension which might have damaged the drains below (drains flow under the sellers house and into that neighbours).

    Thoughts?


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Run a mile!

    If you are only 3 weeks into a deal and they want you to sign as sap while at the same time blocking visits from your tradesmen, then I would be nervous especially if subsidence is in area and pipes need to be checked. Subsidence issues could cost thousands and would be too risky without it tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,048 ✭✭✭Brian201888


    Unless you're happy to take a chance which I absolutely wouldn't be in a scenario where they are actively blocking you I'd be going back saying to go ahead and cancel the sale and see if they budge at that stage.

    If they don't it's surely a huge red flag that there's an issue they were hoping to hide and you're better off away anyway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 114 ✭✭Pod123


    Sold and bought houses over the years.
    Best thing we ever did was to send in our own plumber electrician and carpenter.
    We also used an engineer purely to make sure everything was built to planning permission eg entrance septic tank etc. But the trades people saved us money.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,157 ✭✭✭TheShow


    if they have nothing to hide they would grant access.
    are you sure it was their solicitor holding things up or were they trying to cover up/fix something?

    Unless you are 100% certain there is nothing untoward happening, red flags all over the place here.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Fol20 wrote: »
    Run a mile!

    If you are only 3 weeks into a deal and they want you to sign as sap while at the same time blocking visits from your tradesmen, then I would be nervous especially if subsidence is in area and pipes need to be checked. Subsidence issues could cost thousands and would be too risky without it tbh.

    It took 3 weeks to get their papers to our solicitors. Because of this we had to effectively start our engineer search from scratch - that took a week to complete (there were cheaper quicker engineers but it’s the most important piece to get right so had to get the best we could) and about 7 days to get him on site (busy time of year).

    We are bending over backwards. Their solicitor goes of on holidays and we eventually have to change the engineer as a result.

    We book the plumber for last week, they cancel last minute and now won’t give access to the plumber, drains and electrician.

    We get the engineer out last Thursday and they say they want contacts signed the following week (!?!). We told them there wasn’t a hope because that would give 0 days to read, complete recommended checks and then sign contracts.

    We have been open and communicative at every step. We’d have the engineer and subsequent visits done weeks ago had it not been for the delay.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    TheShow wrote: »
    if they have nothing to hide they would grant access.
    are you sure it was their solicitor holding things up or were they trying to cover up/fix something?

    Unless you are 100% certain there is nothing untoward happening, red flags all over the place here.

    I don’t know to be honest. The cancellation of the plumber at short notice followed now by refusal is a major red flag for us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    Yes sounds like a lot of red flags it definitely sounds like they know there is something to hide.

    Why was the survey dependent on contracts though? We had the survey done within a week which was 6 weeks before contracts issued.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Either the house is a state or the sellers are flighty and going to be troublesome. I'd back out


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Drop your offer or walk away


  • Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭1hnr79jr65


    subsidence issues on drainage from neighbours extension are no joke, they cause a hell of alot of issues, walk away cos the cost to fix those drains is many thousands and council wont lift a finger.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Yes sounds like a lot of red flags it definitely sounds like they know there is something to hide.

    Why was the survey dependent on contracts though? We had the survey done within a week which was 6 weeks before contracts issued.

    Sorry, I don't understand when you say "survey dependant on contracts"?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    subsidence issues on drainage from neighbours extension are no joke, they cause a hell of alot of issues, walk away cos the cost to fix those drains is many thousands and council wont lift a finger.

    It's not confirmed because the engineer couldn't access the drain over. We gave the vendors a heads up earlier in the week that we would need to get access for the drains b

    Yeah if there is damage there, there is a chance of further damage or blockage in the coming years and I would presume it would all back up on the house we are buying (which is running downhill from "ours" to "theirs".


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 18,268 ✭✭✭✭ Aryanna Sparse Barrier


    You've not signed any contracts...walk away.
    They are hiding something and you don't want to uncover it after the contract is signed.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    You've not signed any contracts...walk away.
    They are hiding something and you don't want to uncover it after the contract is signed.

    I have currently no proof that they are hiding anything. They may just be pressuring us. The transaction hasn't been the smoothest given the delay from their solicitor and then us having to scramble to get a new engineer, so they are probably getting pressure from their buyer on the house they are trying to buy.

    But I cannot understand how denying us access for our electrician/plumber/drains cctv is going to help do anything but end the sale entirely.

    I'm so frustrated because it's completely ****ing unreasonable on their behalf. We've been running around in circles getting a new engineer and when we do get him in, saying they want contracts signed this time the next week (5 working days). I mean what planet do you live on when you think that soneone will sign contracts 5 working days from an engineer visit? And then as we are due to get the report, deny us access to the house?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    You've not signed any contracts...walk away.
    They are hiding something and you don't want to uncover it after the contract is signed.


    Probably the buried remains of the previous engineers who discovered the cause of the subsidence issues.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    STB. wrote: »
    Probably the buried remains of the previous engineers who discovered the cause of the subsidence issues.

    That gave me a good laugh. Thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    That gave me a good laugh. Thanks.


    In all seriousness, subsidence, insurance companies wont touch you.


    20% off the price for starters. Most people walk away from headaches. As said earlier, red flags galore here.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    STB. wrote: »
    In all seriousness, subsidence, insurance companies wont touch you.


    20% off the price for starters. Most people walk away from headaches. As said earlier, red flags galore here.

    Just to clarify again, it's subsidence in the neighbours and we can see the border wall is also showing a few signs.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,414 ✭✭✭tigger123


    Walked away from the purchase of a house just before xmas (for different reasons).

    It can be hard to leave it behind, but you'll get over it quick enough, trust me. If you can afford this house, you can afford another one in the same area without whatever issues may or may not be lurking underneath.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭STB.


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Just to clarify again, it's subsidence in the neighbours and we can see the border wall is also showing a few signs.


    I understand. What is the cause though ? And how far has the problem extended ? Your engineer and the access he requires can only answer that. He is not going to sign off on a report until he gets that answer.

    You could call into the neighbour and say hello and shimmy around the subject.

    Don't be pressurised. The vendor may already know the extent of issues and is hoping you wont!


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    I'm actually really angry. It feels like they asked us to get the engineer done so we are are more likely to be locked into the sale.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,131 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Just to clarify again, it's subsidence in the neighbours and we can see the border wall is also showing a few signs.

    I'd be very worried that it'd not merely in the neighbours. I think there is more than meets the eye here. Do you know if any other houses in the area that are affected.

    I'd wonder if you could get insurance on the property?

    Is the neighbours house an end terrace house. Mates had a problem with this before, a neighbours house with subsidence ended up affecting there house.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    STB. wrote: »
    I understand. What is the cause though ? And how far has the problem extended ? Your engineer and the access he requires can only answer that. He is not going to sign off on a report until he gets that answer.

    You could call into the neighbour and say hello and shimmy around the subject.

    Don't be pressurised. The vendor may already know the extent of issues and is hoping you wont!

    It's essentially along the outside wall dividing the main house with the extended kitchen. You can see it from our garden. That extension essentially runs over the drainage. You are right, we have to wait for the engineer report but the only thing it will say is that it needs to be inspected - and we are not allowed send anyone else. :rolleyes:


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    I'd be very worried that it'd not merely in the neighbours. I think there is more than meets the eye here. Do you know if any other houses in the area that are affected.

    I'd wonder if you could get insurance on the property?

    Is the neighbours house an end terrace house. Mates had a problem with this before, a neighbours house with subsidence ended up affecting there house.

    No it's not the end of terrace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,194 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Sorry, I don't understand when you say "survey dependant on contracts"?

    Just where you mentioned that the solicitor delay with documents delayed you contacting the first engineer. Was that another condition? We contacted engineer company the next working day after sale agreed and they were in within the week so it was independent of solicitors. The seller's solicitor didn't send anything to ours until 7 weeks after sale agreed. So I was curious about the connection between the two.

    The seller is playing an impossible game here. Trying to get you to pay money without verifying your (enormous!) purchase. Really outrageous behaviour.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Just where you mentioned that the solicitor delay with documents delayed you contacting the first engineer. Was that another condition? We contacted engineer company the next working day after sale agreed and they were in within the week so it was independent of solicitors. The seller's solicitor didn't send anything to ours until 7 weeks after sale agreed. So I was curious about the connection between the two.

    The seller is playing an impossible game here. Trying to get you to pay money without verifying your (enormous!) purchase. Really outrageous behaviour.

    Appreciate the explanation - there was paperwork that our solicitor needed before an engineer went out for inspection. By the time he received it, the engineer was about to go on holidays. There was a 3 week window for their solicitor to get this done. They failed and we are paying for it with stress and pressure since then.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭ Guillermo Freezing Typhoon


    Multiple gas leaks. Dodgy piping, flue, gas tank. Entire central heating system needed to be replaced.
    Issue with drain not emptying.
    Maintenance required on septic system.
    Leaky garage roof, needed to be reassembled.
    Concealed crumbling mouldy plaster from water damage.
    Probable minor leak under screed subfloor.
    Fireplace is a fire hazard, violates regulations.
    The exterior paint has gone very patchy and requires redoing.

    I feel I've left something out. But that's a list of issues we've uncovered so far with the house we bought a year ago. Cost of repairs well into five figures and continuing to accumulate. We did get a survey. He discovered zero items of the above list.

    People do sell houses with significant issues. Refusal to let you check for them means you should absolutely assume there are major issues that would make you not buy the property at all.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 15,225 Mod ✭✭✭✭FutureGuy


    Multiple gas leaks. Dodgy piping, flue, gas tank. Entire central heating system needed to be replaced.
    Issue with drain not emptying.
    Maintenance required on septic system.
    Leaky garage roof, needed to be reassembled.
    Concealed crumbling mouldy plaster from water damage.
    Probable minor leak under screed subfloor.
    Fireplace is a fire hazard, violates regulations.
    The exterior paint has gone very patchy and requires redoing.

    I feel I've left something out. But that's a list of issues we've uncovered so far with the house we bought a year ago. Cost of repairs well into five figures and continuing to accumulate. We did get a survey. He discovered zero items of the above list.

    People do sell houses with significant issues. Refusal to let you check for them means you should absolutely assume there are major issues that would make you not buy the property at all.

    I just read this to my wife. We deeply appreciate you sharing this and we are sorry for the nightmare you are going through.


  • Registered Users Posts: 782 ✭✭✭Dolbhad


    FutureGuy wrote: »
    Just to clarify again, it's subsidence in the neighbours and we can see the border wall is also showing a few signs.

    Will affect you insurance wise if in an area of subsidence. Either you won’t get cover for subsidence or if you do, it’s at a high cost. It may be that they are under pressure to sign their contracts and they can’t do that unless you sign. However it’s very unreasonable, especially in holiday season. If they are under this much pressure, they can’t afford a time delay to let it go back on market. Stay firm and insist on the checks or you can’t sign contracts.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,421 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    3 weeks is nothing to wait when selling/buying a house, however, there's usually nothing stopping an engineer doing a survey during this time, the engineer will then usually advise if there is any documentation required from the vendors solicitor (e.g. cert of compliance, or issues around the plot), so it's odd that your solicitor was the block here, but maybe there is something special about the house that's not being called out here that made your solicitor add this condition (you also need to keep the selling estate agent aware of all these items, as they will be talking to the vendor directly and will make them nervous about delays).

    Do the vendor know you're worried about subsidence? Be up front, and tell them what the inspection is for, make sure the EA knows (they'll dread this as they'll have to put it back on the market with a question mark around subsidence).

    Is the house detached? If it is attached to the neighbour, and the neighbour has subsidence, you need to run away fast.

    It does sound like there's some naivety on your part, which can be understandable if it's a first purchase, be up front with issues, don't try and scrimp and save on what's required to buy the property (some beginners balk at the idea of getting a survey done before signing contracts in case they "lose" the money, this is a big red flag to any selling EA), the key is to keep everyone fully informed at all stages, and flag when and why decisions get made.


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