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What are your views on Multiculturalism in Ireland? - Threadbanned User List in OP

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,973 ✭✭✭Chris_Heilong


    Multiculturism is very bad, It does not equate to people of different races all living together as some think, it means multiple cultures all living in a country that used to just have one culture, Nobody should ever think about immigration to a country and expect the country to change for them, anyone who comes here I hope that they want to become a part of our unique culture, also all cultures are not equally as enlightened.

    We can have a little from everywhere but make sure every child speaks the common language, mixes with the local people and know that Irish culture is what they should aim to integrate into. What I would hate to see is areas where just one group all move in to together and act like they are just back in their home countries as these become insular and lead to social unrest further down the line.

    Ahh I found a clip I seen ages ago which covers some of my points.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Who were almost always invaders. That part seems to be glossed over. The very language we're typing this in is because of invasion and colonisation. Now it's a positive today, but ask many generations of Irish how positive it was in the past. When cultures mix there is nearly always conflict. Look around at the flashpoints today. America has been multicultural by the very nature of it as a country and yet... Brazil is a melting pot, but who are clustered at the top and who are clustered at the bottom. Two thirds of the inhabitants of favelas are Black or mixed. And both of them are founded on invasion and colonisation.

    Name an example. If it works so exquisitely it should be a doddle to name a long list of them throughout history. The problem is that in damned near every single conflict in history it was between cultures and ethnic groups. Them V Us is writ large in our history and it seems in our very nature.

    I think you're arguing with a shadow here. The bits you've omiitted from my quote I believe were most relevant.

    One example: America. People who went to the US willingly from all parts of the world, all of their cultures combined we now called America; they created the richest, most free society ever seen in history. The only invaders were the original colonists, but even at that the native American indians regularly invaded each other aswell.
    Many dishes, words, foods, sports, etc.. all had origins in other cultures that we now call 'american'. It wasn't through domination, it was through collaboration.

    But my point was more that this needs to be willing. There must be a demand for people in your country; it can't just be to prop up the failing pension system. It must be numbers that are manageable by the country.

    If you want multiculturalism you must accept that people must integrate into the community they must change to some extent, learn a new language, learn the ways of the land etc... not just come here and speak the same language they were speaking in a foreign country creating ghettos of people from different countries. This is the problem. That should not be confusd with integrating people successfully into one's country which has been happening throughout the history of our species.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,439 ✭✭✭✭briany


    2u2me wrote: »

    But my point was more that this needs to be willing. There must be a demand for people in your country; it can't just be to prop up the failing pension system. It must be numbers that are manageable by the country.

    There are different kinds of willing - politically willing, economically willing, socially willing, for example.

    I would say that of these three, being economically willing is the most common. There may be an amount of 'do-gooder' mentality that wants to house, clothe and feed the poor of the world just because they feel it's the right thing to do, but it's dwarfed by the historical and continuing drive toward cheap labour and/or to make up for the shortfall of native skills.

    In that way, it's Capitalism that is the main driver of immigration, as well as simply maintaining the system to which we are used. It *could* be about propping up the pension system in the sense that an older person may not like seeing a few dark faces about the town, but a far greater tragedy in their lives would be to become destitute and would surely constitute a big political crisis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,283 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    The utopian vision of multiculturalism hasn't been obtained anywhere in the world.

    Maybe Ireland will be different?

    The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results - Albert Einstein.

    multiculturalism, open border immigration, socialism, communism. Its always the same voices shouting 'do it again, it'll be better this time'


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    FVP3 wrote: »

    WTF is the dwarf apologising for something which is Australian history? We didn't run that state. At this stage we've probably apologised more than the Spanish and Portuguese.

    Still Irish people had a hand in massacring aboriginals that's a fact and Micheal D apologised on our behalf that's the way it happened. There was no real need to massacre them but they still did.

    Also the stolen generation was run by the churches and the Catholic Church being the largest imported the skills from the experts ie. Irish mother/Baby homes and don't forget when ever abusive Priests were complained about and the bishop moved them were did a lot of them go? yep on a mission.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,393 ✭✭✭boardise


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Who were almost always invaders. That part seems to be glossed over. The very language we're typing this in is because of invasion and colonisation. Now it's a positive today, but ask many generations of Irish how positive it was in the past. When cultures mix there is nearly always conflict. Look around at the flashpoints today. America has been multicultural by the very nature of it as a country and yet... Brazil is a melting pot, but who are clustered at the top and who are clustered at the bottom. Two thirds of the inhabitants of favelas are Black or mixed. And both of them are founded on invasion and colonisation.

    Name an example. If it works so exquisitely it should be a doddle to name a long list of them throughout history. The problem is that in damned near every single conflict in history it was between cultures and ethnic groups. Them V Us is writ large in our history and it seems in our very nature.

    '...In our very nature'. Indeed.
    There's an Arab proverb that shows how groups league together in smaller or larger numbers depending on the scale of contention ( reminiscent of the layers of an onion broadening from the core to the surface). It goes something like -

    Me against my brother
    -Me and my brother against other relatives
    -Our family against other family
    -Our families (=clan) against other clan
    -Our clans(=tribe) against other tribe
    Our tribes against 'the world' =strangers /foreigners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,853 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Legal immigration according to the rules for non EU members is fine. They are wanted and welcome and legal having gone through the visa process.

    Sorry now, but it's the hordes of so called asylum seekers arriving here from god knows where that get my goat. And they cost us a heck of a lot of money too. No need for me to elaborate further.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan


    I would like to see a Boards.ie Consensus.

    Economists agree that immigration has a net positive on the economy and this immigration is surely a wonderful thing for the county.

    Agree/Disagree?


    You lasted well didn't you :pac:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    It's probably been said but America was not a multicultural society at all. There's a reason baseball is the most popular sport there. Germans in the midwest were forced to conform and speak English fearing that they posed a threat to national security. At one time German was so prevalent there and the midwest was very culturally Germanic. People had the freedom to do what they want at home but over time you see a complete fusion of cultures-Ever notice how none of the Italian Americans speak Italian? Or the Irish who went there when Irish was the language here don't still speak Irish? Because in a multicultural society that is what happens.

    Sadly, multiculturalism doesn't work. It's not about cultures being better or worse, just some are more compatible. Irish culture wouldn't work in central Asia, maybe with the exception of the Kazakhs. Difference in appearance and cultural divergences begin to add up and slowly you just see a society that lacks any cohesion. Do we even want multiculturalism for the world? Homogenization to me does not seem like something we should aspire to. Diversity and cultural richness and uniqueness are goals of themselves.

    To butcher the Frankie Boyle joke but I'm all for immigration but wouldn't it be better if we had a world where an African farmer can stay and farm in Africa rather than trying to get across the med in a burst blowup boat to then spend 4 days under a lorry so that he can sell lollipops in a nightclub toilet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,693 ✭✭✭2u2me


    The saddest part of it is when the low paid Irish people and low paid immigrants turn on each other. Instead of the low paid standing together and trying to improve their collective lot, they fight against each other. See BLM vs monuments protectors, [...] It's so often the way these things work where the poor divide themselves rather then working together. Needless to say, it suits the other classes of people to have a weak and divided working class - cheap labour.

    That's what they want.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,322 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    Eoin O'Broin confidently stating that anker babies should be given give birthright citizenship and that we should remove the 27th Amendment as it is racist. This is simply wrong. Over 80% of the Irish Republic voted against this in '03. This shows utter contempt for democracy.

    https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1273300365530869763
    Let's make a clear statement here today; Ireland belongs to all of us. Not just those of us who were born here. but those people who come here, who work here, and contribute to our society.

    Yeah, legal immigrants that will show to have a positive contribution to the Irish economy and integrate into the social structure of our country. Not financial drains.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,489 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Multiculturalism does work imo.
    The world is very different now than what it was in the past, common media (music/TV markets), the prevalence of social media, student exchange programs, access to low cost travel etc means there is more awareness of what other cultures are like, and more possibility to experience them. Trying to maintain a 'pure' society (by either side) is regressive in my view.

    Some argue that conflict arises when cultures mix, that is true, to a degree, but there was always conflict which often escalated to outright warfare when those countries felt no association with each other.

    Arguing that the whole idea of it doesn't work because of isolated instances of conflict (which may only have people of different cultures involved as opposed to this being the root cause) is like complaining about cars because of the numbers of deaths and injuries associated with them.

    I'm also curious about how the defenders of a countries own 'culture', at least those who publicly call for it, often seem to be of the likes we saw in London at the weekend. A cross between a 4 day stag party and a day release program. Or our own public examples who were in the High Court recently. Is that the type of personality we are so concerned about being eroded?


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,243 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    I think it's great.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Multiculturalism does work imo.
    The world is very different now than what it was in the past, common media (music/TV markets), the prevalence of social media, student exchange programs, access to low cost travel etc means there is more awareness of what other cultures are like, and more possibility to experience them. Trying to maintain a 'pure' society (by either side) is regressive in my view.

    Some argue that conflict arises when cultures mix, that is true, to a degree, but there was always conflict which often escalated to outright warfare when those countries felt no association with each other.

    Arguing that the whole idea of it doesn't work because of isolated instances of conflict (which may only have people of different cultures involved as opposed to this being the root cause) is like complaining about cars because of the numbers of deaths and injuries associated with them.

    I'm also curious about how the defenders of a countries own 'culture', at least those who publicly call for it, often seem to be of the likes we saw in London at the weekend. A cross between a 4 day stag party and a day release program. Or our own public examples who were in the High Court recently. Is that the type of personality we are so concerned about being eroded?

    Define 'multiculturalism', please.

    Because nothing you've written there is relevant to the term.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭Phil.x


    Ongar/hansfield...enough said.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,570 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Ask the people of Balbriggan how it’s working for them.

    I visit there regularly as a mate bought there years ago. It isn't controlled by black gangs like you all fantasise about. It's grand, him and his friends like living there. The village actually has potential if they develop it properly.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭ArchXStanton


    I also would echo a call for a referendum on multiculturalism.

    I sense a huge disconnect between politicians and the public on this. A disconnect that is getting wider by the week

    A referendum Would give the politicians guidance on the direction this country wants to go

    Our EU overlords have spoken... They don't care about you, your opinions or what's in the interest of your country



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Seems to have worked out fairly well in London and Paris anyway. Socially cohesive, well integrated capitals. Apparently theres even a commison to decide what artifacts from the previous inhabitants culture will be allowed to remain standing :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,570 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Bambi wrote: »
    Seems to have worked out fairly well in London and Paris anyway. Socially cohesive, well integrated capitals. Apparently theres even a commison to decide what artifacts from the previous inhabitants culture will be allowed to remain standing :D

    I lived in a mostly black area in London and it was grand. Easy to buy drugs mind.


  • Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    John Cleese have said that London was no longer an English city, saying "virtually all my friends from abroad have confirmed my observation".
    Mayor "Part and parcel" Khan objected saying "diversity is our strength".

    London has gone from a less than a third minorities to almost half in 20 years.
    This is probably what Cleese was referring to.


    If it happened in London it may just happen in Dublin.
    There is plenty of political will for things to go this way.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Eoin O'Broin confidently stating that anker babies should be given give birthright citizenship and that we should remove the 27th Amendment as it is racist. This is simply wrong. Over 80% of the Irish Republic voted against this in '03. This shows utter contempt for democracy.

    https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1273300365530869763



    Yeah, legal immigrants that will show to have a positive contribution to the Irish economy and integrate into the social structure of our country. Not financial drains.

    We're seeing the fruits of the anchor babies now who're running wild in certain parts of Ireland , come here and the more kids you have the money we'll pay you . You had people getting here ready to pop ,straight down the social to get the house , medical card , children's allowance etc. That system was used and abused by some of the laziest people on planet who have been nothing but a drain on the tax payer since getting here .


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    I lived in a mostly black area in London and it was grand. Easy to buy drugs mind.

    Yeah, easy access to drugs is usually one of the key indicitors of a neighborhood headed in the right direction...


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,314 ✭✭✭paw patrol


    I visit there regularly as a mate bought there years ago. It isn't controlled by black gangs like you all fantasise about. It's grand, him and his friends like living there. The village actually has potential if they develop it properly.


    It's gone to the dogs and the black gangs are roaming like crazy esp pre- covid where they would swarm the public transport and harass people.


    "controlled"? perhaps not - what does that even mean anyway?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    Immigration is always a bad thing. Just look at America.

    Exactly. White Europeans who stole the place have now taken over everything.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭Stateofyou


    We're seeing the fruits of the anchor babies now who're running wild in certain parts of Ireland , come here and the more kids you have the money we'll pay you . You had people getting here ready to pop ,straight down the social to get the house , medical card , children's allowance etc. That system was used and abused by some of the laziest people on planet who have been nothing but a drain on the tax payer since getting here .

    "Anchor babies" running wild :pac:
    "some of the laziest people on the planet"

    This is biased and prejudiced language.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,611 ✭✭✭WrenBoy


    Eoin O'Broin confidently stating that anker babies should be given give birthright citizenship and that we should remove the 27th Amendment as it is racist. This is simply wrong. Over 80% of the Irish Republic voted against this in '03. This shows utter contempt for democracy.

    https://twitter.com/EOBroin/status/1273300365530869763

    One of the comments was good "Brits out, Everyone else in" lol


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Yugoslavia, USSR, Ottoman empire etc..... I'm seeing a trend.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    2u2me wrote: »
    I think you're arguing with a shadow here. The bits you've omiitted from my quote I believe were most relevant.
    OK and then I read this next part:
    One example: America. People who went to the US willingly from all parts of the world, all of their cultures combined we now called America; they created the richest, most free society ever seen in history. The only invaders were the original colonists, but even at that the native American indians regularly invaded each other aswell.
    Many dishes, words, foods, sports, etc.. all had origins in other cultures that we now call 'american'. It wasn't through domination, it was through collaboration.

    That paragraph is one of the most naive/jingoistic/deluded/hollywood fantasy[delete as applicable] I've read.

    People who went to the US willingly from all parts of the world

    Save for the slaves of course and its still not going too swimmingly for their descendants. Black men are six times more likely to be murdered than White men, the fifth cause of death for young Black men is encounters with police and they end up in gaol five times more than Whites. Hell, as we've seen American police sworn to protect and serve feel so cocksure in their position and attitudes that they can openly and publicly snuff out the life of a Black guy in the street in front of a wall of camera phones.

    they created the richest, most free society ever seen in history.

    Hahahahhaha.... oh wait, you're serious? Even at its peak America had one of the biggest wealth gulfs of any nation, and still does today. It imprisons more of its citizens than any other nation and executes more than any other save for China. In the Good Old Days™ of the 50's and 60's that Hollywood and Americans often like to look back on as a golden age, when the cars had chrome and fins and rockets were blasting into space, Blacks were excluded from that, never mind the poor Whites. Blacks and other "undesirables" were refused mortgages and even when they had money were pushed out of the Doris Day White neighbourhoods. Jews weren't exactly flavour of the month in golf clubs and the like. When men were walking on the moon the state was napalming women and kids in far off paddy fields, while Blacks and other minorities were rioting in the streets and some demographics had one of the worst childhood mortality rates in the Western world.

    The only invaders were the original colonists, but even at that the native American indians regularly invaded each other aswell.

    Good Christ, I've read some daft notions in my time, but that takes the biscuit. To have a policy of extermination and genocidal intent towards a people for centuries, the "solution" in the end being reservations. I can't believe anyone could write what you have there with a straight face.

    It wasn't through domination, it was through collaboration.

    Now you have to be having a laugh, or you've bought The American Dream™ © wholesale with eyes wide shut. What collaboration was involved in building the railways, built on the blood and bones of Chinese and Irish coolies? The Irish workers were hard driven, but at least they has some rights, the Chinese had few. Ever hear of the Chinese Exclusion Act? They couldn't become citizens, had to carry ID at all times and couldn't testify in court and were paid half of what Whites were. That's before we consider the exploitation of the poor of any colour or creed. Countries always have a history of exploitation of resources, material and human, but America has a worse record than many on that score, and here we are in the 21st century and those divisions are still in evidence.

    Basically, if you think America is a great example of how multiculturalism works you're proving my point for me.
    That should not be confusd with integrating people successfully into one's country which has been happening throughout the history of our species.
    Only it hasn't. Individuals can and have been integrated into societies throughout history, groups haven't, or very rarely, and very different groups pretty much never. That's the point.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,570 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    biko wrote: »
    John Cleese have said that London was no longer an English city, saying "virtually all my friends from abroad have confirmed my observation".
    Mayor "Part and parcel" Khan objected saying "diversity is our strength".

    London has gone from a less than a third minorities to almost half in 20 years.
    This is probably what Cleese was referring to.


    If it happened in London it may just happen in Dublin.
    There is plenty of political will for things to go this way.

    Is that a bad thing though? It's possibly the biggest economic powerhouse of a city in the world. It thrives on people living there from all over the world. And it always has albeit on a smaller scale, it was rich from trade with the Dutch and Venetians and Portuguese in the time of the tudors etc. It's what makes it such an amazing place. For me it's the best city in the world anyway.
    I don't care where my neighbour comes from here in Dublin, so if Ireland goes that way too, why would it bother me?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭kildare lad


    Stateofyou wrote: »
    "Anchor babies" running wild :pac:
    "some of the laziest people on the planet"

    This is biased and prejudiced language.

    Call it what you want but it true . Do you think that some people that came here in the late 90s / early noughties ever had any intentions of working ? They only came here to ride the system, that system was rode to bits by people who couldn't work to warm themselves , what ever happened to getting yourself set up and financially secure before having babies. No not in Ireland where they rewarded you houses etc on the backs of the taxpayers


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