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Recommended construction companies for progression?

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    #62
    Revit Man
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Revit Man


    Fluffy101 wrote: »
    Giving the nature of construction work, the pay system is ridiculous especially when you see all the money wasted during a project

    Agreed. I see this all the time. Incredible waste. Not just on the building side of things, but the design side also. Company I work for might get 100K in fees for a project, have a couple of people working aimlessly on it for a while burning fees with nothing much to show for it, then get to cruch time and need to throw extra resources on it to get it together, again burning fees, this time on work that should/could have been done already within money already spent. Their fees end up being wiped, or 10K out of it, when it could have been 50K banked.

    I've seen it across multiple places I've worked for at this point. It's just so inefficient at times. A few "good lads" would have a project done in half the time making it a much more profitable endeavour. A few "poor lads" are those that keep everybody's wages lower because their (lack of) productivity needs to be factored in.

    Yet, they go to work and go home, and take their job lightly, but get paid ballpark same as the fella working very hard beside them. Sometimes it feels like I'm the fool for trying to be productive and efficient, but I don't have the mentality to do as little as I possibly can.


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    #63
    Revit Man
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Revit Man


    Girly Gal wrote: »
    Luckily got out of construction few years back, work for MNC now and definitely wouldn't go back to construction.

    Can you tell us a bit more about this? What did you do in construction, how did you get out of it, what role are you in now?

    Lately I'm just more and more over construction. I need an exit strategy!


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    #64
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    Are most people busy again with your companies? A lot of I’ve been talking to might be busy with live jobs that they were on previous to the lockdown but I haven’t heard Of too many new projects starting up.

    Just curious to see the general consensus if we’re experiencing a lull. Hopefully things pick up where they left off but I’m starting to plan a recession exit strategy if we see the rest of this year quiet.

    Normally we would have got in tens of tenders per week from main contractors and I think we’ve received 2 in the last 2 weeks


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    #65
    Cheensbo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    Interesting thread, echoes many's the recent conversation I have had with fellow QS's.

    The pay-cuts in particular are not going down well.


    I work for a subbie, still very busy - personally haven't stopped working albeit from home since march - there are still plenty tenders rolling in. To me it just seems like the start button has been re-pressed and all systems are go again.. for now anyway


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    #66
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Im working on a big telecoms rollout. I just started the monday that Lockdown began and i have to say they are the best company i ever worked for. In the last job i was working for a contractor and i had my normal projects like everyone else as well as being the unofficial bid manager. I have to say it was terrible for long hours but good experience all the same. Telecoms is a good gig if any of you guys enjoy the claims etc.


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    #67
    Skidfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Skidfingers


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    Are most people busy again with your companies? A lot of I’ve been talking to might be busy with live jobs that they were on previous to the lockdown but I haven’t heard Of too many new projects starting up.

    Just curious to see the general consensus if we’re experiencing a lull. Hopefully things pick up where they left off but I’m starting to plan a recession exit strategy if we see the rest of this year quiet.

    Normally we would have got in tens of tenders per week from main contractors and I think we’ve received 2 in the last 2 weeks


    I'd imagine many developers may take a back seat for the next few months just to see how things go and incase we end up in another recession.


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    #68
    Revit Man
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Revit Man


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    Are most people busy again with your companies? A lot of I’ve been talking to might be busy with live jobs that they were on previous to the lockdown but I haven’t heard Of too many new projects starting up.

    I'm due to start a new project late this week/early next week. Large project, 18-24mths in it. It's for a pharmaceutical client. 95% of the work I've done since 2012 is on pharma sites.

    But I know the company I work for has lost a few jobs in recent weeks that were scheduled to commence now/next month. Funding pulled or withheld. They might go ahead yet, and probably will, but the problem is weathering the storm created by delaying works for 6 months (or whatever it is).


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    #69
    Rover365
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Rover365


    Skidfingers wrote: »
    Any recommendations on what construction companies that are the best overall for professionals (engineers, project managers, QS) in terms of nice to work for, progression, training, salaries, work load etc. Can be building, civil, m&e

    Thanks!

    Skifingers, I have 14 years experience on the QS Consultancy side (10 in OZ and 4 here and currently working for one of the biggest consultancys in Dublin. Honestly dont find it as nearly as bad as people are making out here. Yes there is constant arguing with contractors and subbies but its all a game really. Alot will depend on if they have priced it too low. I generally set out to the CM at the start that i'll be reasonable with them if they dont take the piss. If they start taking the piss,I'll be reviewing everything they submit in detail and breaking their balls putting work back on them.

    I will say that Ireland is definatly worse for everyone trying to screw each other - that includes clients, contractors etc. Just creates more work for the qs, design team etc. The clients in Ireland now want everything yesterday and for nothing. Maybe that is a hangover from the last recession.

    I would recommend trying to get into some of the larger qs consultants as you get exposure to the bigger projects, they generally have more staff etc and I know they crowd I am with now are fairly decent (regular hours, social, pension, wfh, no pay cuts from covid etc) like all places they will pay you as little as possible but if you are good at what you do and know your worth they will pay it due to the shortages in staff. yes there are brown nosers and bull****ters but if you know your stuff in a certain area, you will be valued and rewarded.

    Couldnt recommend OZ enough and the work life balance is definatly better over there. Alot of contractors dont have a 'qs' as such and you dont have to worry about rules of measurements etc as much. They generally dont be screwing each other over as much as they wouldnt get further work if they did.

    QS is a great qualification for travelling internationally and irish/english qs's are recognisedd highly abroad.

    PM me if you want any info on the company im with here or was with in oz


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    #70
    Cheensbo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    Rover365 wrote: »
    Skifingers,

    Couldnt recommend OZ enough and the work life balance is definatly better over there. Alot of contractors dont have a 'qs' as such and you dont have to worry about rules of measurements etc as much. They generally dont be screwing each other over as much as they wouldnt get further work if they did.

    QS is a great qualification for travelling internationally and irish/english qs's are recognisedd highly abroad.

    PM me if you want any info on the company im with here or was with in oz


    Have to echo that, I worked for a large fit-out contractor in Melbourne and it was a super place to work, great WLB, and almost forced to have a few beers in the office after lunch on a Friday.

    Again - no QS role but was a Contract Administrator moving to junior PM, pretty much exactly what I do as a 'QS' for a Medium sized specialist subbie here - you do everything from tender to post contract.

    The work was hard, but unlike my experience here in Ireland, there was never an issue getting more staff in to cover increased workload - no-one I've worked with here has been so quick to hire when it's needed - rather than letting the existing staff absorb the extra workload - which is definitely common practice here.


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    #71
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    Made my mind up to do a masters / post grad in September and get the f*ck out of this industry.

    Seems a waste at 27 to throw away all the experience - studied QS part time so I essentially worked as a trainee right upto now for nearly 10 years in America, Oz, Ireland and UK. But looking back I’d say I only enjoyed about 2 out of 9 years at one company when I was fairly junior. Have really hated the last 3, so much so that it affected my mental health.

    Only decision I haven’t made is whether I can afford to go at it full time from sep-May for the year full time, or do the long slog 2 years part time. Another 2 years in this would be tough


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    #72
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭onrail


    The CIF or Engineers Ireland should really read this thread and reevaluate their aims.

    Fairly clear here that this industry has adversely so many lives - feel like somebody needs hit the reset button.


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    #73
    onrail
    Registered Users Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭onrail


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    Made my mind up to do a masters / post grad in September and get the f*ck out of this industry.

    Seems a waste at 27 to throw away all the experience - studied QS part time so I essentially worked as a trainee right upto now for nearly 10 years in America, Oz, Ireland and UK. But looking back I’d say I only enjoyed about 2 out of 9 years at one company when I was fairly junior. Have really hated the last 3, so much so that it affected my mental health.

    Only decision I haven’t made is whether I can afford to go at it full time from sep-May for the year full time, or do the long slog 2 years part time. Another 2 years in this would be tough

    I’m in the same boat at 32, and was probably saying the same thing at your age. All I’ll say is go for it. It gets exponentially harder to move the older you get.


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    #74
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    Yeah it’s committing to the study. I found that part time I focused on my day job so much that I had no energy for study in the evenings and just threw any old thing together to get the pass rate. When I switched to full time for the final 2 semesters I was able to apply myself fully, but at the cost of no income and losing a job.


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    #75
    Skidfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Skidfingers


    Rover365 wrote: »
    Skifingers, I have 14 years experience on the QS Consultancy side (10 in OZ and 4 here and currently working for one of the biggest consultancys in Dublin. Honestly dont find it as nearly as bad as people are making out here. Yes there is constant arguing with contractors and subbies but its all a game really. Alot will depend on if they have priced it too low. I generally set out to the CM at the start that i'll be reasonable with them if they dont take the piss. If they start taking the piss,I'll be reviewing everything they submit in detail and breaking their balls putting work back on them.

    I will say that Ireland is definatly worse for everyone trying to screw each other - that includes clients, contractors etc. Just creates more work for the qs, design team etc. The clients in Ireland now want everything yesterday and for nothing. Maybe that is a hangover from the last recession.

    I would recommend trying to get into some of the larger qs consultants as you get exposure to the bigger projects, they generally have more staff etc and I know they crowd I am with now are fairly decent (regular hours, social, pension, wfh, no pay cuts from covid etc) like all places they will pay you as little as possible but if you are good at what you do and know your worth they will pay it due to the shortages in staff. yes there are brown nosers and bull****ters but if you know your stuff in a certain area, you will be valued and rewarded.

    Couldnt recommend OZ enough and the work life balance is definatly better over there. Alot of contractors dont have a 'qs' as such and you dont have to worry about rules of measurements etc as much. They generally dont be screwing each other over as much as they wouldnt get further work if they did.

    QS is a great qualification for travelling internationally and irish/english qs's are recognisedd highly abroad.

    PM me if you want any info on the company im with here or was with in oz


    I agree, I don't think it as bad as either. I'm just used to how the industry and for the most part I enjoy it. I'd just love to be given a little more responsibility and be able to moved up the ladder.



    I think I'd find the contractor side of things more interesting then consultancy, but Oz is definitely on the cards now. Currently have 18 months left of my Chartership and contemplating did a certificate in Project Management from Sept - May also, would this be something you'd recommend having when going abroad? Would it stand to you more (better job + pay)?


    I'd like to think the experience in Oz would be a massive bonus and very appealing to Irish contractors when I'd return in a few years. I assume Oz still has plenty of jobs for qs?


  • Options
    #76
    Skidfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Skidfingers


    Cheensbo wrote: »
    Have to echo that, I worked for a large fit-out contractor in Melbourne and it was a super place to work, great WLB, and almost forced to have a few beers in the office after lunch on a Friday.

    Again - no QS role but was a Contract Administrator moving to junior PM, pretty much exactly what I do as a 'QS' for a Medium sized specialist subbie here - you do everything from tender to post contract.

    The work was hard, but unlike my experience here in Ireland, there was never an issue getting more staff in to cover increased workload - no-one I've worked with here has been so quick to hire when it's needed - rather than letting the existing staff absorb the extra workload - which is definitely common practice here.


    Did you have any further training or anything going? The WLB in Oz sounds amazing. Did you find that you got more respect due to your experience when you returned (moved up ladder, better pay, more respected etc.)?


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    #77
    Cheensbo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,701 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    Skidfingers wrote: »
    Did you have any further training or anything going? The WLB in Oz sounds amazing. Did you find that you got more respect due to your experience when you returned (moved up ladder, better pay, more respected etc.)?


    God no, I had only junior exp. going over there, found it a little hard to get initial foot in door over there but that was mostly just down to how my CV was written.

    I came back in 2016, it was very much a jobseekers market here then, so the OZ experience wouldn't have really mattered a whole lot in terms of what you ask - most employers were desperate to take on any QS they could at that point.


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    #78
    Rover365
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Rover365


    Skidfingers wrote: »
    I agree, I don't think it as bad as either. I'm just used to how the industry and for the most part I enjoy it. I'd just love to be given a little more responsibility and be able to moved up the ladder.



    I think I'd find the contractor side of things more interesting then consultancy, but Oz is definitely on the cards now. Currently have 18 months left of my Chartership and contemplating did a certificate in Project Management from Sept - May also, would this be something you'd recommend having when going abroad? Would it stand to you more (better job + pay)?


    I'd like to think the experience in Oz would be a massive bonus and very appealing to Irish contractors when I'd return in a few years. I assume Oz still has plenty of jobs for qs?

    Chartership isnt a big thing in OZ or the US anyway and wouldnt give you anymore recognition really. You could also complete it over there (RICS) and its certainly easier to get over there. SCSI will recognise it here too when you come back.

    You'll certainly be given more responsibility and get greater exposure to various projects abroad that would take alot longer here. I had a serious cv coming back in 2015 that allowed me to get the money I was after even though alot or recruitment consultants said I was dreaming.

    The experience would definatly stand to you coming back in a few years although titles/levels wouldnt. ie you could be an associate after a few years over in oz but doesnt mean that you would start back here as an associate. you seem to have to give your left ball and 10 years of slaving to get titles here if thats what you are into. I've always preferred more money than titles and know of plenty who were given titles and not the salary to match.

    Let me know if you need any more info


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    #79
    Skidfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Skidfingers


    Rover365 wrote: »
    Chartership isnt a big thing in OZ or the US anyway and wouldnt give you anymore recognition really. You could also complete it over there (RICS) and its certainly easier to get over there. SCSI will recognise it here too when you come back.

    You'll certainly be given more responsibility and get greater exposure to various projects abroad that would take alot longer here. I had a serious cv coming back in 2015 that allowed me to get the money I was after even though alot or recruitment consultants said I was dreaming.

    The experience would definatly stand to you coming back in a few years although titles/levels wouldnt. ie you could be an associate after a few years over in oz but doesnt mean that you would start back here as an associate. you seem to have to give your left ball and 10 years of slaving to get titles here if thats what you are into. I've always preferred more money than titles and know of plenty who were given titles and not the salary to match.

    Let me know if you need any more info




    I thought a lot of companies may look for it there. I'd assume my training here so far would carry over. It's interesting to hear that it would be easier to get there, the exam/presentation is suppose to be very tough here.



    I thought titles and money would go hand in hand. Did you have much here before heading over?


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    #80
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Rover365 wrote: »
    Skifingers, I have 14 years experience on the QS Consultancy side (10 in OZ and 4 here and currently working for one of the biggest consultancys in Dublin. Honestly dont find it as nearly as bad as people are making out here. Yes there is constant arguing with contractors and subbies but its all a game really. Alot will depend on if they have priced it too low. I generally set out to the CM at the start that i'll be reasonable with them if they dont take the piss. If they start taking the piss,I'll be reviewing everything they submit in detail and breaking their balls putting work back on them.

    I will say that Ireland is definatly worse for everyone trying to screw each other - that includes clients, contractors etc. Just creates more work for the qs, design team etc. The clients in Ireland now want everything yesterday and for nothing. Maybe that is a hangover from the last recession.

    I would recommend trying to get into some of the larger qs consultants as you get exposure to the bigger projects, they generally have more staff etc and I know they crowd I am with now are fairly decent (regular hours, social, pension, wfh, no pay cuts from covid etc) like all places they will pay you as little as possible but if you are good at what you do and know your worth they will pay it due to the shortages in staff. yes there are brown nosers and bull****ters but if you know your stuff in a certain area, you will be valued and rewarded.

    Couldnt recommend OZ enough and the work life balance is definatly better over there. Alot of contractors dont have a 'qs' as such and you dont have to worry about rules of measurements etc as much. They generally dont be screwing each other over as much as they wouldnt get further work if they did.

    QS is a great qualification for travelling internationally and irish/english qs's are recognisedd highly abroad.

    PM me if you want any info on the company im with here or was with in oz

    Definitely a different mentality when it comes to working in construction in oz although I was on the trade side of things.
    I generally had a good experience in construction in oz but my worse experience by a country mile was working for an Irish boss in Australia.
    I returned to Ireland this year to study fulltime and hopefully will never work another day in construction.


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    #81
    Skidfingers
    Registered Users Posts: 334 ✭✭Skidfingers


    aido79 wrote: »
    Definitely a different mentality when it comes to working in construction in oz although I was on the trade side of things.
    I generally had a good experience in construction in oz but my worse experience by a country mile was working for an Irish boss in Australia.
    I returned to Ireland this year to study fulltime and hopefully will never work another day in construction.




    I also heard this recently from someone who worked in trade in Oz 8 years ago and I was told to avoid working for Irish.


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    #82
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    aido79 wrote: »
    Definitely a different mentality when it comes to working in construction in oz although I was on the trade side of things.
    I generally had a good experience in construction in oz but my worse experience by a country mile was working for an Irish boss in Australia.
    I returned to Ireland this year to study fulltime and hopefully will never work another day in construction.

    Was it topknot by any chance :D

    What did ye go back to study out of interest?


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    #83
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    Was it topknot by any chance :D

    What did ye go back to study out of interest?

    No it was a small electrical company. I'd say there's endless amounts of companies with bad Irish bosses in Australia from what I've seen and heard.

    Went back to study electrical engineering.


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    #84
    aido79
    Moderators, Regional Abroad Moderators Posts: 5,374 Mod ✭✭✭✭aido79


    Skidfingers wrote: »
    I also heard this recently from someone who worked in trade in Oz 8 years ago and I was told to avoid working for Irish.

    I was told this before going to Australia and I definitely found it to be true.


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    #85
    Rover365
    Registered Users Posts: 33 ✭Rover365


    Skidfingers wrote: »
    I thought a lot of companies may look for it there. I'd assume my training here so far would carry over. It's interesting to hear that it would be easier to get there, the exam/presentation is suppose to be very tough here.



    I thought titles and money would go hand in hand. Did you have much here before heading over?

    I went without any experience and learned quick. I remember my first project my director sent me to a meeting on my own on a data centre project and I just had to bluff my way through it. if you are able to talk the talk it will get you a long way. They also use cost data better over there so its easier to get an understanding and feel for costs.

    In relation to the chartership while ur experience will help you, you might need to still do the 2 years of diary from scratch. not sure though would be worth checking with RICS. The presentation/exam is definatly easier from the amount of prep/study that ive seen guys do here.

    generally titles and money are related but ive seen guys focused on titles and earn less that lower ranked people


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    #86
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/in-six-months-we-will-be-in-the-grip-of-a-1980s-style-recession-1.4268947?mode=amp

    I really hate buying into the scaremongering, which I didn't do at all with the virus. But it's hard not to believe the article in what this country will be like by Christmas 2020. Unless you're with a big firm and sure of security, it's sobering thoughts.


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    #87
    mandrake04
    Registered Users Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭mandrake04


    Skidfingers wrote: »
    I also heard this recently from someone who worked in trade in Oz 8 years ago and I was told to avoid working for Irish.

    This is true, the Irish bosses understand the mindset, the visa system and then use it to their advantage. They will string Irish guys along for a year with promises of sponsorship, squeeze the last drop of blood out of them workwise and when it comes close to end of their visa hold their pay back for a few weeks until they guys give up and return home short. No one rides the Irish harder than a Paddy boss.

    I also know of Irish bosses who simply wont hire Irish guys unless they are permanent residents.


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    #88
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    Have many on here done the SCSI chartership?


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    #89
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    No, was given one of those external tutors in a previous company down here and still didn’t do it. Zero interest doing it either.

    A lot I’ve talked to said it makes zero difference to your bottom line pay, unless you are going for a certain sector or type of company eg consultancy / public sector.


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    #90
    Kevhog1988
    Registered Users Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭Kevhog1988


    CBear1993 wrote: »
    No, was given one of those external tutors in a previous company down here and still didn’t do it. Zero interest doing it either.

    A lot I’ve talked to said it makes zero difference to your bottom line pay, unless you are going for a certain sector or type of company eg consultancy / public sector.

    surely theres no harm having it?


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    #91
    CBear1993
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭CBear1993


    Kevhog1988 wrote: »
    surely theres no harm having it?

    Definitely helps yeah. Different opinions on it. Some of the best QS’ I ever worked with never done it. It def will help on your CV for sure especially if you want to travel to some places or work PQS side.

    Prob best off asking someone more senior, the next person on here could preach it to be a must-do, you know.


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