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Space X

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    #602
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    I am still not clear on the answer - the Starship (in the guise that reached 10 km and returned to earth a few weeks ago), will that be capable of putting a payload into orbit and then return to a soft landing on earth?
    No because at this stage it's still an empty shell with just enough fuel and engines to get above the bulk of the atmosphere. Later versions will have more engines and gizmos and seats and stuff.

    Even if it was Single Stage To Orbit it would be with Zero payload and no margin, and even then I'd doubt it.

    One configuration with extra engines might be able to do 10,000km hops for the military.


    5pTXsxV4YMqxRyLcKU26EL-970-80.jpg.webp
    There's a picture around of a starship like craft with several trucks with the Red Cross symbol on them , because what other military use is there ? - ICRC will be very annoyed.

    https://www.icrc.org/en/document/emblems
    The use and misuse of the red cross, red crescent and red crystal emblems is clearly defined in law. The Geneva Conventions and their Additional Protocols contain several articles on the emblems.


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    #603
    Westernyelp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,371 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    Poulgorm wrote:
    I am still not clear on the answer - the Starship (in the guise that reached 10 km and returned to earth a few weeks ago), will that be capable of putting a payload into orbit and then return to a soft landing on earth?


    Not without the booster


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    #604
    Poulgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 776 ✭✭✭Poulgorm


    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?


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    #605
    josip
    Registered Users Posts: 13,637 ✭✭✭✭josip


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?


    Pork barrelling.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pork_barrel


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    #606
    jogdish
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭jogdish


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?
    As mentioned political reasons, but also:
    Starship doesn't exist yet and has never made it past 10k, it will eventually but progress will be slow, and more slow once you start advertising it as for cargo and way slower once you want people on it.
    SLS uses known tech that works and works really well, the engines are solid and preform well as do the recycled shuttle ones. They are putting people on it on mission 2, it might be mission 200 before starship has a person.
    SLS was in development hell for forever, and political winds change, long before spaceX was even thinking about starship.


    Could SLS have been better for sure, but it's essentially ready, people are working on it and it works let's use it. Also better to have companies and contractors working rather than letting knowledge slip away because the machine guy took a different job. None of this ideal.


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    #607
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Another query: Why are NASA developing the SLS rocket? I assume it is costing billions to develop and will have (more or less) the same capabilities (in terms of payload) as the SpaceX Starship. But the NASA SLS rocket will not be re-usable, so it's hard to see how it will be commercially viable.

    So, what is the thinking behind the SLS? Why do it?
    Pork barrels and corporate welfare.

    It's money for old rope.


    The SLS is built from flight proven Space Shuttle left overs. Literally.

    Using RD-25 engines that have already gone to orbit.
    And SRB segments that have flown before om a total of 40 missions


    The current iteration of SLS can put about the same payload into LEO as you can for $150m (retail) with a Falcon Heavy vs $146 million for each new RS-25 engine and SLS uses four of them.

    SLS has a cyrogenic upper stage but it can trace it's history back to the early 1960's.

    The service module is imported from Europe. It's derived from the ATV cargo craft used to support the ISS.


    Even the R&D was already done because of the billions spent on previous projects like Shuttle-C Aries Constellation CaLV etc. etc.



    SLS is cobbled together from off the shelf flight-proven hardware and is insanely over budgeted so there is no excuse for failure other than corporate greed.


    It's money for old rope.

    /RANT


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    #608
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    jogdish wrote: »
    They are putting people on it on mission 2, it might be mission 200 before starship has a person.
    SLS was in development hell for forever, and political winds change, long before spaceX was even thinking about starship.
    SLS block 1 and Falcon Heavy can put similar loads into LEO.

    You have to compare Starship to future versions of SLS. Even then since Starship can be refuelled it could take twice the payload that SLS block 2 can onwards.

    Dragon can navigate and dock with the ISS. So you could assemble larger payloads in LEO. Crew don't need to fly up on Heavy or Starship.
    Could SLS have been better for sure, but it's essentially ready, people are working on it and it works let's use it. Also better to have companies and contractors working rather than letting knowledge slip away because the machine guy took a different job. None of this ideal.
    The knowledge had for the most part already slipped away and had to be reinvented. SLS is so delayed it's already lost some of the missions that justified it's existence.

    Until it flies we don't know if it's ready. SLS is not Apollo, there isn't the same national pride , cold war "not on my watch" work ethic involved. And Boeing have had inexcusable issues with software and hardware on aircraft and spacecraft recently.

    Thanks to modern technology like 3D printing and better robot welding and not needing reusability each engine now costs more than an entire rocket that can do a similar job :confused:


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    #609
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery




    Not sure how I missed this- but excellent eye candy at the potential orbital test flight.

    It's going to be some spectacle whenever it gets the greenlight.


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    #610
    firemansam4
    Registered Users Posts: 1,688 ✭✭✭firemansam4


    The launch tower for Starship is progressing well, up to half its finished height now...

    https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starship-launch-tower-half-height/


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    #611
    jogdish
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭jogdish


    Super heavy booster rolling out, amazing and this is only the start. Will be insane to see sn20 atop and boosting off! This one is only for static pad tests, unclear if it will even do static fires, no engines installed as of yet.


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    #612
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    Static fire for Booster potentially lined up for NET July 15! (today!)


    Aaand road closure cancelled, so won't be today.

    Post edited by Shlippery on


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    #613
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Cl5wrUffk0


    Will we get a booster static fire in the next few hours!? :D



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    #614
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    current estimate, static fire in 20 mins



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    #615
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1417274819461095432


    full duration (of about a second) static fire completed

    7:05 local CDT time on the video above



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    #616
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    Booster 4 fully stacked with 29 raptors attached.


    Could be some fun static fires coming soon. Crazy progress made in past week or so



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    #617
    Westernyelp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,371 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696140#Comment_117696140

    FAA could be the hold up at this stage. Remarkable moving from SpaceX



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    #618
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117696689#Comment_117696689

    True, read a few articles on it.


    https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1422368427369402370 - it's damn impressive! The 3 raptors from the Starship test campaign so far were always beastly, cannot wait to hear 29 roaring at once. Wow.



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    #619
    Fred Cryton
    Registered Users Posts: 944 ✭✭✭Fred Cryton


    There will surely be serious noise issues with 30+ raptors. Have we seen any noise dampening technical innovations or is it a case of keep it well away from everyone?



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    #620
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1422603106035118085


    Also a response to a render of the catch mechanism. Wild


    edit: Booster on the move to the pad. the size of it.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1422607954101084161 :O

    Post edited by Shlippery on


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    #621
    Westernyelp
    Registered Users Posts: 2,371 ✭✭✭Westernyelp


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117700632#Comment_117700632

    That's why they are returning the two oil rigs. Sea launches well away from the population once the real ships are flying.



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    #622
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw%20


    I skimmed through it because I can't claim to understand a whole lot of it, but the behind the scenes look is amazing!


    edit: Booster 4 being lifted onto the launch pad

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyHVskV5SAI


    Post edited by Shlippery on


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    #623
    jogdish
    Registered Users Posts: 1,458 ✭✭✭jogdish


    ugh, changeover and I get no notifications for this thread.

    It's amazing the push the have made, I think its a full stack for a photo op, de stack to finish the plumbing and the 'for show' raptors, test fire S20 and B4 seperatly, re stack, some tests and then hopefully a sub orbital flight.



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    #624
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    sexy s20 on the move.

    tpms tiles look great

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzvMbxaj15Y




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    #625
    .42.
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭.42.


    Will they be stacking SN20 on the booster directly or do some static fires on the ship first?



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    #626
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    Looks like they're going to stack it today! No idea how the static fires will work, but yeah, probably just to get some photos and see how it'll look.

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423353739394514949




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    #627
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure



    https://twitter.com/austinbarnard45/status/1423472597681979396


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423516703829417986https%3A//twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423516703829417986

    sex number



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    #628
    Shlippery
    Registered Users Posts: 2,255 ✭✭✭Shlippery


    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1423659261452709893


    Stacked this morning, looks like mainly to test the waters, see everything snaps together nicely and grab few photos - it's been separated again - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhJRzQsLZGg

    Guess they're gonna figure out the static fires and tidy things up a bit while the FAA decides what it's gonna do.


    Can't wait to see what they do with the tower 'Mechazilla'.



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    #629
    irishgeo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,369 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117716188#Comment_117716188

    Read the following.

    Stack as a test then unstack.

    Test the booster and starship seperately then restack for test flight.



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    #630
    Capt'n Midnight
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 90,698 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Liberty Hall is 195 feet tall. This stack just over twice that at 395 feet. (120m)

    Makes it taller than SLS, Saturn V, N1, Ares-X. Tallest rocket so far.

    Pic - look at the guys in the cherry picker where the Starship sits on the booster.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E8HaippVIAEsnIG?format=jpg&name=large



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    #631
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,165 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    same height as the spire in O'Connell Street (which is also stainless steel), but three times as wide as the base of it, and on top of a maybe 70 foot stand...

    Untitled Image


    Untitled Image




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