Bike Scheme like Dublin, Waterford misses out.

fuzzy dunlop · 15-11-2015 11:38pm

JourneyMan8 wrote: »

no solution is to correct the there's not much to do problem first rather than adding a scheme that won't be used because there's nothing to do.

You don't know it won't be used. If there is "nothing to do" as you ridiculously claim then a bike scheme means there is something to do.

fuzzy dunlop · 15-11-2015 11:40pm

robtri wrote: »

what is the cost to the city??? how many millions would be spent installing new cycle lanes and would it be worth it??? whats the payback?

They are already doing this bike scheme or not. As for the bike scheme the one in Dublin is paid for by advertising.

robtri · 15-11-2015 11:46pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

They are already doing this bike scheme or not. As for the bike scheme the one in Dublin is paid for by advertising.

no, not true.... Dublin gave JCdeaux a lot of advertising space, which would have been money in the pockets of Dublin City in return for bikes....
so not really true, as DCC could have made a lot of money selling that advertising space.....

and who paid for the upgrades to the cycle lanes and new cyclelanes for the city????? it wasn't the advertiser.... it was DCC

fuzzy dunlop · 15-11-2015 11:55pm

robtri wrote: »

no, not true.... Dublin gave JCdeaux a lot of advertising space, which would have been money in the pockets of Dublin City in return for bikes....
so not really true, as DCC could have made a lot of money selling that advertising space.....

So in other words the bikes were paid for by providing advertising space.:rolleyes:

robtri wrote: »

and who paid for the upgrades to the cycle lanes and new cyclelanes for the city????? it wasn't the advertiser.... it was DCC

The provision of bike lanes are not dependent on a bike scheme being in existence. So the cost has nothing to do with bike schemes. You are making a connection where there isn't any. DCC have been providing bike lanes in the City years before the bike scheme was even thought about. The improved bike lanes are part of DCC policy at the behest of the city manager who is an avid cyclist and environmentalist. None of these things are in any way connected to the bike scheme. The provision of cycling infrastructure is part of a trend seen across the world so how on earth did you come to the conclusion that this in a cost that needs to be factored in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cycling_infrastructure

cgcsb · 16-11-2015 10:16am

robtri wrote: »

Dublin was a success by all accounts.....
10% of the Dublin population signed up!!!! thats 54,000 people signed up

Dublin's numbers are a reflection of the inadequacy of the public transport infrastructure, there are far to few rail connections from the suburbs to the city and within the center, there is far too much car dominance for public transport to be given sufficient road space. Dublin's bike scheme could easily be described as over subscribed.

robtri wrote: »

Cork so far has been anything but a success, with just less 3% sign up... around 3,000 people and has cost the city, millions as they upgraded and created new cycle lanes.....

Cork City Council was required, under instruction from the NTA to improve cycling lanes, regardless of the scheme.

robtri wrote: »

what is the cost to the city??? how many millions would be spent installing new cycle lanes and would it be worth it??? whats the payback?

More cycle lanes are going to happen anyway.

Cabaal · 16-11-2015 7:11pm

robtri wrote: »

Dublin was a success by all accounts.....
10% of the Dublin population signed up!!!! thats 54,000 people signed up

Did this happen within the first 12 months?

Cork so far has been anything but a success, with just less 3% sign up... around 3,000 people and has cost the city, millions as they upgraded and created new cycle lanes.....

Its very early days yet, its not even been 12 months since it officially opened.

Also the millions you are saying was spent clearly needed to be spend as the city lacked a decent cycle network. Nothing really to do with the bike share scheme so its not a valid point at all.

You're also forgetting the savings to Cork because if they've upgraded the cycle network then this brings cost savings to the city in other ways as other cyclists can use this network too (its not limited to the coca cola bikes).

I don't think this is as black and white as you like to believe,

what is the cost to the city??? how many millions would be spent installing new cycle lanes and would it be worth it??? whats the payback?

First you need to look at the cycle network and does it need general improvements before hand...like Cork.

Secondly, you need to factor in the student population, you also have to factor in any savings such as more bikes = less cars and the savings this can bring to a city.

robtri · 16-11-2015 10:19pm

Did this happen within the first 12 months?

Its very early days yet, its not even been 12 months since it officially opened.
[\QUOTE]

Dublin had 0ver 33,000 in one year....

Much greater than Cork.

Also the millions you are saying was spent clearly needed to be spend as the city lacked a decent cycle network. Nothing really to do with the bike share scheme so its not a valid point at all.

You're also forgetting the savings to Cork because if they've upgraded the cycle network then this brings cost savings to the city in other ways as other cyclists can use this network too (its not limited to the coca cola bikes). [\QUOTE]

of course it is Valid, they upgraded the network and built new lanes, and a lovely Plinth in conjunction with the Bike Scheme so yes it is related and is valid point.

I don't think this is as black and white as you like to believe,

First you need to look at the cycle network and does it need general improvements before hand...like Cork.

Secondly, you need to factor in the student population, you also have to factor in any savings such as more bikes = less cars and the savings this can bring to a city.

Not saying it doesn't need upgrades or improvements, just asking whats the payback??
sometimes in life its as black and white as cost vs payback.

why factor in Student population??? have you any information, links, stats that students use the scheme more or are a large contributory factor for bike schemes.

cgcsb · 17-11-2015 10:42am

Bike schemes don't necessitate improvement of cycle lanes. City Bike Schemes + better cycle lanes are part of a joint strategy to increase the amount of journeys taken by bike and decreasing the amount of journeys taken by car. The payback is less congestion, less pollution and more pleasant public spaces.

katydid · 17-11-2015 4:00pm

Roanmore wrote: »

"A spokesperson for the NTA said that following analysis of the potential for a bicycle scheme in Waterford it was concluded that the cost per bike based on the scheme size would be too high."

Any idea why the costs in Waterford would be too high, was any reason given?

Because, presumably, there aren't enough people in Waterford to justify it. Waterford often forgets it's basically a large town, even if it's officially a city.

katydid · 17-11-2015 4:07pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Is there anything Waterford can proactively do itself rather than wait to be included in a national scheme?

Organisations like the Chamber of Commerce, Bord Failte and the City Council should all be looking to progress plans to develop a Waterford Bike Scheme.

If it was viable, I'm sure someone would have decided to go ahead. The population of Waterford city is 46,000. Limerick has 102,000, and Galway about 80,000. Waterford's a large town in terms of size, even if it's called a city. You have to be realistic here.

cgcsb · 17-11-2015 4:20pm

Plenty of bike share schemes in Cities smaller than Waterford.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aranjuez#Transportation being a good example.

katydid · 17-11-2015 4:21pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Plenty of bike share schemes in Cities smaller than Waterford.

Where?

cgcsb · 17-11-2015 4:24pm

katydid wrote: »

Where?

Spain has 138 schemes, they don't have 138 Cities larger than Waterford.

katydid · 17-11-2015 4:29pm

cgcsb wrote: »

Spain has 138 schemes, they don't have 138 Cities larger than Waterford.

Fair enough. How are they financed? Local councils abroad have much more control over their finances than they do here, and can heavily subsidise this kind of thing. A national scheme, like the one here in Ireland, is going to be more realistic about it.

cgcsb · 17-11-2015 5:10pm

They're mostly financed by a mix of advertisement and local government. In Ireland's case it would be advertisement and the NTA, which the exception of Dublin which is advertisement and Dublin City Council.

katydid · 17-11-2015 5:32pm

cgcsb wrote: »

They're mostly financed by a mix of advertisement and local government. In Ireland's case it would be advertisement and the NTA, which the exception of Dublin which is advertisement and Dublin City Council.

And obviously the NTA isn't prepared to take a risk on Waterford because it's not viable. Local governments would be more positive, as they would have a local interest in it and would make the investment. Waterford clearly isn't viable.

Anyway, let's see how it works elsewhere. Maybe in time to come things might change.

My main point is that Waterford always assumes it can play with the big boys, when it's really only a large town. Don't get me wrong, I live here and I quite like the place, but it does have notions above its station... :-)

Wanderer78 · 17-11-2015 9:15pm

katydid wrote: »

....when it's really only a large town....

i regularly call it waterford village, but i am fond of our wee place

CHealy · 20-11-2015 5:36pm

robtri wrote: »

Dublin was a success by all accounts.....
10% of the Dublin population signed up!!!! thats 54,000 people signed up

Cork so far has been anything but a success, with just less 3% sign up... around 3,000 people and has cost the city, millions as they upgraded and created new cycle lanes.....

Lets say Waterford gets 5% .... thats roughly 2,300 people

thats sign numbers.... not the actual use.... which is usually less than sign up...

what is the cost to the city??? how many millions would be spent installing new cycle lanes and would it be worth it??? whats the payback?

I was just reading through this cause I think the cycle scheme should be extended, but I just need to correct you on your Cork summary. The bike scheme has been a roaring success in Cork with the stats for the city far far ahead of both Limerick and Galway even given the greater population in Cork. Below are the most recent stats:

\\

6,800 cyclists in Cork, 2,000 in Galway and 2,300 in Limerick have taken out annual subscriptions.

Cork
202,702 trips taken.The most popular journey is from Bandfield to St Patrick's Street.

The busiest station is Fitzgerald Park, which has been used more than 18,000 times

Limerick
31,368 journeys taken. The most popular is between Mount Saint Vincent and O'Connell Street, with 606 trips.

The busiest station is Mary Immaculate College with almost 4,300 trips.

Galway
17,348 have been taken. The most popular trip is from Fr Burke Road to Eyre Square, with 355 journeys made.

The busiest station is Cathedral, with 2,127 trips.

//

Over 200,000 trips taken in less than a year is pretty good going in my eyes for Cork, and remember that Dublin Bike has been in operation since 2009 so of course the stats for that will be way higher. Limerick and Galway have been the most dissapointing, especially Limerick seeing as it isn't a small city in Irish terms. Personally, I use the bikes 3 or 4 times a week and couldn't praise them more, especially getting from Kent station into the city centre.

fuzzy dunlop · 21-11-2015 5:02pm

katydid wrote: »

And obviously the NTA isn't prepared to take a risk on Waterford because it's not viable. Local governments would be more positive, as they would have a local interest in it and would make the investment. Waterford clearly isn't viable.

How do we know the project would not be viable? There is a complete lack of transparency on the issue. If they published data you could say this but they didn't. As usual we have to take the word of a nefarious political class.

katydid wrote: »

My main point is that Waterford always assumes it can play with the big boys, when it's really only a large town. Don't get me wrong, I live here and I quite e like the place, but it does have notions above its station... :-)

There are no big boys. It might be a large town but then so is Limerick and Galway. To suggest they are in some other league is frankly losing the plot. Galway and Limerick are the same category of small city and Waterford is larger regionally and more amenable to public transport investmet. And considering the sheer weight of state aid that has been thrown at both cities over the years they should be light years ahead of us but they are not. Their relative position and population of each city has been the same.

katydid · 21-11-2015 9:16pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

How do we know the project would not be viable? There is a complete lack of transparency on the issue. If they published data you could say this but they didn't. As usual we have to take the word of a nefarious political class.

There are no big boys. It might be a large town but then so is Limerick and Galway. To suggest they are in some other league is frankly losing the plot. Galway and Limerick are the same category of small city and Waterford is larger regionally and more amenable to public transport investmet. And considering the sheer weight of state aid that has been thrown at both cities over the years they should be light years ahead of us but they are not. Their relative position and population of each city has been the same.

No, Waterford is not in the same league as Limerick and Galway. Look at the atmentality, population, and size.

I don't have evidence that it wasn't viable in Waterford. But it makes sense to me, given its size and population.

fuzzy dunlop · 21-11-2015 10:24pm

katydid wrote: »

No, Waterford is not in the same league as Limerick and Galway. Look at the atmentality, population, and size.

I don't have evidence that it wasn't viable in Waterford. But it makes sense to me, given its size and population.

Of course it is. Its amazing your linear logic applies to Waterford and nowhere else. And as for your mentality insinuation well this is pure bollox.

katydid · 21-11-2015 10:27pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Of course it is. Its amazing your linear logic applies to Waterford and nowhere else. And as for your mentality insinuation well this is pure bollox.

What "linear logic"? What mentality insinuation?

No idea what you're on about. I'm not sure you do.

fuzzy dunlop · 21-11-2015 10:32pm

katydid wrote: »

What "linear logic"? What mentality insinuation?

No idea what you're on about. I'm not sure you do.

You don't seem to be very bright do you.In what world is Waterford with a population of 50000 not in the same leage as Galway 70000 and Limerick 90000?

katydid · 21-11-2015 10:38pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You don't seem to be very bright do you.In what world is Waterford with a population of 50000 not in the same leage as Galway 70000 and Limerick 90000?

There's no point in trying to discuss this with you if you can't act like an adult. Get back to me when you decide to be civil.

And in the meantime reflect on the fact that it might be worth more your while going back and reading posts more carefully. Like the bit where I said that the population of Waterford city is 46,000. Limerick has 102,000, and Galway about 80,000. I did research

fuzzy dunlop · 21-11-2015 10:44pm

katydid wrote: »

There's no point in trying to discuss this with you if you can't act like an adult. Get back to me when you decide to be civil.

And in the meantime reflect on the fact that it might be worth more your while going back and reading posts more carefully. Like the bit where I said that the population of Waterford city is 46,000. Limerick has 102,000, and Galway about 80,000. I did research

Well your figures are wrong for a start as well as disingenuous. Post a link because you didn't get it from the CSO. All of the cities of Limerick, Galway and Waterford are between 50k and 100k. That puts them in the same category.

katydid · 21-11-2015 10:53pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

Well your figures are wrong for a start as well as disingenuous. Post a link because you didn't get it from the CSO. All of the cities of Limerick, Galway and Waterford are between 50k and 100k. That puts them in the same category.

.

See, you can talk like an adult when you try. Well done.

The population of Limerick is up by a relatively modest 0.2 per cent to 91,454.
The numbers living in Galway are up by 5.6 per cent to 76,778, while the numbers in Waterford are up by 4.7 per cent to 51,519.

http://www.thejournal.ie/census-2011-reveals-irelands-fastest-growing-towns-and-counties-430278-Apr2012/

My first figures were inaccurate, this is a better source. But the point stands; 51k is not in the same league as 76k or 91k...

fuzzy dunlop · 21-11-2015 10:59pm

katydid wrote: »

.

See, you can talk like an adult when you try. Well done.

The population of Limerick is up by a relatively modest 0.2 per cent to 91,454.
The numbers living in Galway are up by 5.6 per cent to 76,778, while the numbers in Waterford are up by 4.7 per cent to 51,519.

http://www.thejournal.ie/census-2011-reveals-irelands-fastest-growing-towns-and-counties-430278-Apr2012/

My first figures were inaccurate, this is a better source. But the point stands; 51k is not in the same league as 76k or 91k...

You're no adult! So not only were your figures wrong you have no basis for your claims. This are the three same category of city as defined by every country in Europe,

katydid · 21-11-2015 11:06pm

fuzzy dunlop wrote: »

You're no adult! So not only were your figures wrong you have no basis for your claims. This are the three same category of city as defined by every country in Europe,

So a big town of 50k is the same as a city of 91k.

Yep, got that.

fuzzy dunlop · 21-11-2015 11:11pm

katydid wrote: »

So a big town of 50k is the same as a city of 91k.

Yep, got that.

Well you seem to think a big town of 76k is the same as a big town of 91k. For no rational reason 76k is a magic number that makes a town a city. No you haven't got a vindictive streak at all....

Azatadine · 21-11-2015 11:21pm

In fairness, to the outside world, Waterford is not really regarded as a city, neither is Kilkenny for that matter.

Bike Scheme like Dublin, Waterford misses out.

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