Waterford University discussion

From what has been in media and up online last week or so it very much appears this has all been decided & govt are figuring out a way to make this swallowable for waterford.

The crystal site coming out of the blue like that is hilarious - let them say exactly what the plans are for it? Sure for all we know it could be a dam car park!

To announce something like that instantly drives the price up & im sure the public procurement people would have something to say about it all.

From start to finish this has been a siht show, easy to blame howlin / hogan, but we had 2 junior ministers & 4-5 govt TDs at that time - be more in Tiernan’s line get them on the show and ask a few questions of them

Just a couple of thoughts on the ongoing TUSE HQ location debacle.

The notion of Kilkenny as a compromise HQ location doesn't pass muster on the simple fact that Carlow and Kilkenny are "politically" one, with Carlow-Kilkenny being a single 5-seat constituency. The whole TU stich-up will (by design) result in Carlow being a University town anyway on the back of WIT, so constituency pork is heading to Carlow-Kilkenny anyway. And that is already one big political win for them at Waterford's expense, even without the HQ.

Wexford is also shooting itself in the foot with the usual misguided "anti-Waterford is pro-Wexford" thinking when it comes to the TUSE HQ issue. Wexford isn't getting the HQ anyway, so the only local/parochial skin in the game (for right or wrong) is a Wexford TUSE campus into the future. But here's the thing: if Carlow are gifted the HQ, future funding long into the future would undoubtedly concentrate on scaling up the Carlow HQ campus to rival or better Waterford's (for the sake of appearances, status, and because they could). Wexford wouldn't get a look in (nor would Waterford) in that case for a long time, if ever. Furthermore, with Carlow as the central TUSE "hub", they would likely look North, East and West for catchment/expansion as (if not more) quickly as towards Southeasterly Wexford. Harris has already thrown Kildare, Wicklow, Laois, etc. into the TUSE mix, so that Northern "catchment creep" is a very real threat for Wexford, who stand to be overlooked if it comes to pass.

A Kilkenny HQ would similarly hoover up any infrastructure spending to provide/establish a substantial Kilkenny presence (and bolster constituency bedmate Carlow too, no doubt; I tend to agree with a previous poster that KK would act as a Carlow proxy anyway). Again, Wexford stands to get diddly-squat in that case. Given that a clear (if unspoken) part of the TU agenda is rationalisation, any funding will be very limited in any case (and the lack of funding renders the clearly expensive Kilkenny idea/stroke completely senseless and illogical, though that won't stop the usual parochial nonsense being played out by idiots who parrot piss-poor GAA analogies as a means of "arguing").

On the flip side, a Waterford-based HQ wouldn't have to play "HQ campus catch up" as the Waterford presence would already be the largest by some way. Pressures and priorities regarding infrastructure funding/spending would be very different IMO in that case (no pressing need to quickly upsize Carlow or establish a new KK campus at all, given KK is only half an hour or so anyway from both main campuses). A Waterford based TUSE HQ/hub might naturally look towards the East and Wexford for further regional catchment/expansion too, with the North already covered by TUSE Carlow, and the West already well covered by Cork/Limerick/etc rivals (so arguably less opportunity there). There is, therefore, more chance of Wexford being able to get some form of TUSE presence with a Waterford HQ, as it might help keep TUSE more firmly located/rooted in the Southeast (as it should be anyway). However anathema it might be for them, it makes absolute sense for Wexford to politically back Waterford for the HQ if they have longer term ambitions of (again, for right or wrong) a local TUSE campus.

So, given the above, I will ask a question of the Deputies, Senators and Councillors of fair Wexford, that heady bastion of wonderful strawberries and atrocious driving. On the subject of the TUSE HQ, for your own sake if not ours, will you take our hand and work with us this one time? Will you dance with the Deise in the pale moonlight?

P.S. I'm Batman!
P.P.S. TUSE is a truly awful idea but we're probably stuck with it.

garyscargo wrote: »

Just a couple of thoughts on the ongoing TUSE HQ location debacle.

The notion of Kilkenny as a compromise HQ location doesn't pass muster on the simple fact that Carlow and Kilkenny are "politically" one, with Carlow-Kilkenny being a single 5-seat constituency. The whole TU stich-up will (by design) result in Carlow being a University town anyway on the back of WIT, so constituency pork is heading to Carlow-Kilkenny anyway. And that is already one big political win for them at Waterford's expense, even without the HQ.

Wexford is also shooting itself in the foot with the usual misguided "anti-Waterford is pro-Wexford" thinking when it comes to the TUSE HQ issue. Wexford isn't getting the HQ anyway, so the only local/parochial skin in the game (for right or wrong) is a Wexford TUSE campus into the future. But here's the thing: if Carlow are gifted the HQ, future funding long into the future would undoubtedly concentrate on scaling up the Carlow HQ campus to rival or better Waterford's (for the sake of appearances, status, and because they could). Wexford wouldn't get a look in (nor would Waterford) in that case for a long time, if ever. Furthermore, with Carlow as the central TUSE "hub", they would likely look North, East and West for catchment/expansion as (if not more) quickly as towards Southeasterly Wexford. Harris has already thrown Kildare, Wicklow, Laois, etc. into the TUSE mix, so that Northern "catchment creep" is a very real threat for Wexford, who stand to be overlooked if it comes to pass.

A Kilkenny HQ would similarly hoover up any infrastructure spending to provide/establish a substantial Kilkenny presence (and bolster constituency bedmate Carlow too, no doubt; I tend to agree with a previous poster that KK would act as a Carlow proxy anyway). Again, Wexford stands to get diddly-squat in that case. Given that a clear (if unspoken) part of the TU agenda is rationalisation, any funding will be very limited in any case (and the lack of funding renders the clearly expensive Kilkenny idea/stroke completely senseless and illogical, though that won't stop the usual parochial nonsense being played out by idiots who parrot piss-poor GAA analogies as a means of "arguing").

On the flip side, a Waterford-based HQ wouldn't have to play "HQ campus catch up" as the Waterford presence would already be the largest by some way. Pressures and priorities regarding infrastructure funding/spending would be very different IMO in that case (no pressing need to quickly upsize Carlow or establish a new KK campus at all, given KK is only half an hour or so anyway from both main campuses). A Waterford based TUSE HQ/hub might naturally look towards the East and Wexford for further regional catchment/expansion too, with the North already covered by TUSE Carlow, and the West already well covered by Cork/Limerick/etc rivals (so arguably less opportunity there). There is, therefore, more chance of Wexford being able to get some form of TUSE presence with a Waterford HQ, as it might help keep TUSE more firmly located/rooted in the Southeast (as it should be anyway). However anathema it might be for them, it makes absolute sense for Wexford to politically back Waterford for the HQ if they have longer term ambitions of (again, for right or wrong) a local TUSE campus.

So, given the above, I will ask a question of the Deputies, Senators and Councillors of fair Wexford, that heady bastion of wonderful strawberries and atrocious driving. On the subject of the TUSE HQ, for your own sake if not ours, will you take our hand and work with us this one time? Will you dance with the Deise in the pale moonlight?

P.S. I'm Batman!
P.P.S. TUSE is a truly awful idea but we're probably stuck with it.

WIT just needs to pull out of the process. Even the best case scenario with the TUSE it will still be a lesser version of thrid level than the other regional cities. Why should WIT stay with this process.

Harry Palmr wrote: »

We're always fecked on the TD head count. Esp as we only have one "mainstream" TD. No point in expecting political heft from a Green (almost certainly toast next time), an independent and SF in opposition.

FG and FF keep screwing us but maybe we'd have been in a slightly stronger position with more TD's that want to advance themselves within FG/FF by "delivering" TUSE on terms that Waterford would reward next time out.

I am fully aware of how desperate that is

The boundary extension which was the key to a fifth Dail seat. Locals made representations to Dail constituency commissions many times some years ago when Mayo with 110,000 people or so had two constituencies and six TDs when we had three and then four with 100,000.

In the meantime I see we have yet another Dublin based troll prepared to tell us why we should be happy with our lot.

partyguinness wrote: »

No idea why Waterford has such a hard on for getting a University. Small country does not need another university. Nothing wrong on focusing on the technical subjects that an IT can bring.

An educational inferiority complex by the sound of it

It's not so much the university that we not, it's more having the ability to access funds similar to a University which will increase the R&D capacity of WIT and any future expansions.

As an IoT or TU you do not have the ability to access University level funding.

Fraction of the price is right for the crystal site, in around €3million

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/former-waterford-crystal-site-under-offer-1.520760%3fmode=amp

https://twitter.com/MattShanahanTD/status/1359150903538941958?s=19

The numbers don’t lie, if the HQ is any where else but Waterford then WIT needs to walk away. How can an IT with as little R&D spend as Carlow be seriously considered as the HQ of the TUSE. It just doesn't make any sense.

There was absolutely no support from Wexford or Kilkenny when WIT was looking for university status, but now they all want a massive piece of the TUSE pie. Waterford was the only county that fought for a university for the south east, and the WIT has achieved amazing things with very little help. And then they wonder why we're so annoyed in Waterford when they talk about putting the HQ elsewhere. It would also completely go against project 2040.

cactus jacks wrote: »

The numbers don’t lie, if the HQ is any where else but Waterford then WIT needs to walk away.

This is why the powers that be are leaving it to the board of the new TU to decide where the HQ will be. WIT will cease to exist next January, there’s no going back if the HQ goes elsewhere...

BBM77 wrote: »

WIT need to pull out of the merger then and explain with an open letter the impossible situation they have been put in. There is scarcely a good reason to stay in the process as it is.

I wonder who would be prepared to sign such a letter?

Whoever did could have a difficult time getting a suitable appointment in the future.

Fair play to Matt. He's been excellent on this issue. Putting the rest of our TDs to shame.

garyscargo wrote: »

We might as well have no other TD than Matt at the moment.

The TUSE HQ issue is not just another handy political stroke opportunity to deprive Waterford of something, such as the downgrading of WRH to UHW (to Cork's benefit), the binning of the boundary commission recommendations (to Kilkenny's benefit), or locating the merged Waterford/Wexford ETB HQ in - surprise, surprise - Wexford (in fact, can anyone point to a single local political "win" for Waterford in 50 years?). Waterford will not just grumble at TUSE HQ being in Carlow or KK, and then get on with things as before. The government have no f*cking idea of the level of anger brewing under this issue; no idea at all, and it will quickly go nuclear if they try a stroke with the HQ location in this case. People I have spoken to (and I'm talking about generally chilled, placid, apolitical people here) are absolutely f*cking livid at any suggestion that the HQ could go elsewhere. Livid!

Waterford people are very proud and very jealous of WIT and its achievements and its role in the life and (limited) prosperity of our City. It's ours! One of the few good things that we have in Waterford built up over 50 years by dedication and hard work (despite petty opposition everywhere) from next to nothing to something to be objectively proud of on the international stage. It's bad enough that Carlow (!!!) stands to be a university town off the back of WIT, which was absolutely the intent of the TU fudge by Messrs Hogan and Howlin, but to suggest that Waterford would not even hold HQ status, which would allow it to continue to build (respectfully) on the firm foundations set down by WIT over the last 50 years, is beyond reprehensible.

and pull a stroke they will.

Harris and now by proxy cummins hiding behind the new committee etc etc. The HQ was not an issue for the Munster TU it was put out there straight away.

I think you are right - they dont know the anger and this caught cummins off guard last week. He rang dublin for cover and hence the crystal site came up later in the week.

If Waterford comes out with anything less then the HQ, the new schools buildings and a couple of mill to continue with Carriganore, then this has been an epic stitch up.

My gut feeling as someone who has watched this closely for over a decade is these decisions are already made and are now trying to hide behind a committee or figure best how they can serve it up.

This feeling is supported by the slippery KK eels JPP for one who says its "all to play for" and obviously "waterford should be the HQ" they know rightly the decision is made and can play dumb then when we are at butt end of this political stroke. Again.

Deiseen wrote: »

He's been the biggest surprise of the election. A lot seemed to peg him as a "single issue candidate" but he has proved to be much mote than that.

Always said that there's hard data available to be used to highlight the situation in Waterford and the South East. He's the only one to get even close to using it.

So fair play to him.

“In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

(or should that be "university deceit"?)