Nissan Leaf

03-11-2016 1:55pm

Except Nissan are doing the sensible thing and leaving battery production altogether, selling their share in NEC and I would say they'll buy their batteries form LG Chem this is the only way Nissan said they will be able to keep costs down, (they didn't say who they will buy batteries from anyone yet ) Nissan got completely ahead of themselves and thought they'd be selling a lot more leafs than they are now and thought they'd get costs down but it didn't happen so they're absolutely right to get out of battery production , there's no way in hell they'll be able to compete with LG Chem or Panasonic.

It's possible Nissan will continue to offer some batteries from NEC due to their proven reliability.

KCross · 03-11-2016 2:17pm

Deedsie wrote: »

So you would be looking at ~ €50000 for a 60 kWh Leaf? Out of my price range at that unfortunately. I was hoping for €40000 ish.

Huh? 40ish for a Tekna was what I said on the basis that battery costs would come down.

KCross · 03-11-2016 2:32pm

Deedsie wrote: »

So is a 30 kWh Tekna the top spec leaf at the moment?

Yes.... sorry I used UK terminology.... I should have said SVE not Tekna. In the UK they call an SVE a Tekna... same car.

The 3 models in Ireland are XE, SV and SVE.
https://www.nissan.ie/vehicle/leaf/pricing

Padraig Mor · 04-11-2016 9:48am

Deedsie wrote: »

Another leaf question, does anyone here have a tow bar on their Leaf? I have a tow bar bike rack that I use with my current car and I'd like to be able use that with the leaf too. Drive some of the way to work and cycle the rest of the way.

Doing my bit for climate change and traffic congestion and my own belly :-)

Leaf is not supposed to tow so not sure you'd be able to fit one. I have seen some with rear mounted bike racks though.

samih · 04-11-2016 11:01am

Tow bars are available for Leaf and some folks in States are actually towing huge loads with them and they are coping fine (range excepted).

Kennypants · 26-11-2016 3:34pm

Howya, folks. Popping in here with a few questions and comments. I have noticed that ye are pretty generous with your knowledge in this area.

My wife and I have more or less decided to go with a Leaf for our next purchase. We have come around to this decision for a few reasons:

Cost of ownership: Specifically—the Leaf’s running costs appear to be very stable. Having owned an Audi A4 TDi for over ten years now, and having just turned 200k on the odometer, I’m finished with maintenance and crisis repairs. Also, another age-related component failure in the Audi is surely imminent, and I have no more interest in pouring any more money into that car. I’ll sell it on and let some young fella do that. I’d rather take control of our circumstances and make a change now. Incidentally, the Audi has actually been a pretty solid car overall; but, naturally, it too is going the way of all flesh.

Access to charging: My employers are a fairly forward-thinking bunch, and have already provided a multiplicity of charge points, far more than are already being used. This is handy, as we are currently renting (though saving for a deposit) and I don’t want to stick a charging point on a house that we may be leaving behind in a couple of years (though I’m sure my landlord would let me install one if I asked him—sound bloke).

VFM: With no VRT, we can buy ourselves a more modern car than we could otherwise afford. Our budget is not huge—probably looking at €13000—and, range notwithstanding, the Leafs (Leaves?) appear to be fairly well-specced and built.

Here, however, are some concerns or potential downsides that we might be anticipating:

Boot space: Can you fit a buggy in it? Is it usable as the only car for a family? (There’s just the two of us at the moment, but all going well there may be more). Will it do us as a practical vehicle for the next five years? I think it probably will, but others may have some insight here.

Range issue: 95% of our driving would be covered by the Leaf. Really, about 95%. It might make things awkward for the odd trip to Killarney (we live very near Cork) but I’m sure my dad would be happy to swap cars for a day or two of we needed to go for a longer spin. Still though, does anyone here head off for a day trip in faith, knowing that there will be a working charge point somewhere when they’ll need one? Or do ye generally fall back on the primary ICE in the family? This purchase has to be our only car, we simply can’t afford to run a second one.

Granny cables: With work charging so freely available (and my commute is a 75km round trip) I think that we would probably only need to charge once or twice over a weekend. Many weekends may not need even that, we just run up “pottering” mileage on my off days much of the time. Are these cables generally hassle-free? Are they reliably waterproof?

There’s a lot there. I’m not looking necessarily to have all my concerns addressed here, though all input is welcome, absolutely. I was particularly grateful for KCross’ thread on their UK import experience. I, too, bought my Audi in Scotland in August 2006 and so I would have no qualms about doing so again. I may follow the advice given and buy around March, but I’ll certainly look into getting loan approval in the new year and keeping a eye out for deals. I’m hoping (faintly) that a cheeky little 30kwh number may squeak in under budget around the change of reg season.

Anyway, thanks for reading my big long post in which I continue to convince myself that I am doing the right thing.

I suppose my outreach here is basically predicated on this being our only car. Will it do the job? Are their serious issues that we are overlooking?

Thanks folks.

isnottheword · 26-11-2016 5:49pm

Kennypants wrote: »

Howya, folks. Popping in here with a few questions and comments. I have noticed that ye are pretty generous with your knowledge in this area.

This place (alongside speakev) were very helpful to me prior to making my purchase back in the Summer - so you're in the right place.

Kennypants wrote: »

Cost of ownership: Specifically—the Leaf’s running costs appear to be very stable. Having owned an Audi A4 TDi for over ten years now, and having just turned 200k on the odometer, I’m finished with maintenance and crisis repairs. Also, another age-related component failure in the Audi is surely imminent, and I have no more interest in pouring any more money into that car. I’ll sell it on and let some young fella do that. I’d rather take control of our circumstances and make a change now. Incidentally, the Audi has actually been a pretty solid car overall; but, naturally, it too is going the way of all flesh.

This is a tricky one. There is no doubt that charging is on the way - it's just a matter of when. Furthermore, you have to allow for the degradation of the battery over time. You're dipping your toes into disruptive technology that's going to go through several phases of development. There *might* be increased depreciation by comparison with ICE's on your purchase.
These are all things to keep in mind. I'm not trying to put you off - just make you aware of potential pitfalls. I've thrown the dice on this myself and so far so good (saving €160/month on diesel - bearing in mind my old ICE was very fuel efficient).

Kennypants wrote: »

Access to charging: My employers are a fairly forward-thinking bunch, and have already provided a multiplicity of charge points, far more than are already being used. This is handy, as we are currently renting (though saving for a deposit) and I don’t want to stick a charging point on a house that we may be leaving behind in a couple of years (though I’m sure my landlord would let me install one if I asked him—sound bloke).

Can you make work charging cover the vast majority of your charging? It's important to bear in mind. If the EV charging network goes to a fee paying model, you could be in difficulty (given that you rent and wont have a home charger).

Kennypants wrote: »

VFM: With no VRT, we can buy ourselves a more modern car than we could otherwise afford. Our budget is not huge—probably looking at €13000—and, range notwithstanding, the Leafs (Leaves?) appear to be fairly well-specced and built.

Depends on what your expectations are but that's a decent budget in my eyes. Leafs tend to depreciate pretty rapidly within the first 2 years or so - so if you were prepared to opt in at that price point, you should do well for yourself.

Kennypants wrote: »

Boot space: Can you fit a buggy in it? Is it usable as the only car for a family? (There’s just the two of us at the moment, but all going well there may be more). Will it do us as a practical vehicle for the next five years? I think it probably will, but others may have some insight here.

The Gen 1 (up until late 2013) has less boot space as the battery was located back there - taking up some additional space. Generation 1.5 is better in this respect. As regards a buggy, I'll have to let someone else answer that - I'm not a buggy person - although I'd hazard a guess that it should?

Bear in mind that they supply the Leaf without a spare - just a can of 'gunk' - depends on your commute/usage - but I;m never comfortable with this. Some go through countless miles without a puncture. I had 2 within weeks of ownership. I bought a Mitsubishi Lancer (2008 onwards) compact spare with jack) - but that takes up considerable boot space (not ideal - but my circumstances mean I can live with it).

Kennypants wrote: »

Range issue: 95% of our driving would be covered by the Leaf. Really, about 95%. It might make things awkward for the odd trip to Killarney (we live very near Cork) but I’m sure my dad would be happy to swap cars for a day or two of we needed to go for a longer spin. Still though, does anyone here head off for a day trip in faith, knowing that there will be a working charge point somewhere when they’ll need one? Or do ye generally fall back on the primary ICE in the family? This purchase has to be our only car, we simply can’t afford to run a second one.

I do a 130km round trip commute - Monday to Friday. I should be able to do this on one charge - but need 15-30mins fast charge to achieve it. Firstly, forget about the ranges that the manufacturer or dealer claim - they're horseshít. Can you live with having to plan out longer journeys? Can you live with it taking much longer to travel over greater distances? Can you live with keeping the speed down on motorway driving? I used to have a heavy foot and problems with penalty points - not any more thanks to the Leaf!

Kennypants wrote: »

Granny cables: With work charging so freely available (and my commute is a 75km round trip) I think that we would probably only need to charge once or twice over a weekend. Many weekends may not need even that, we just run up “pottering” mileage on my off days much of the time. Are these cables generally hassle-free? Are they reliably waterproof?

I don't have a granny cable - so others can advise you on that. However, from what I've read, they can sometimes challenge the electricity supply/wiring in a dwelling. All of these cables are also damned expensive. Presumably, you'll need the type 1 to type 2 cable for charging at work (and for slow chargers on the public network)? Is there a public charger close to your home?? Charging with a granny charging lead also takes forever.

Kennypants wrote: »

There’s a lot there. I’m not looking necessarily to have all my concerns addressed here, though all input is welcome, absolutely. I was particularly grateful for KCross’ thread on their UK import experience. I, too, bought my Audi in Scotland in August 2006 and so I would have no qualms about doing so again

Yes, KCross' post on his UK purchase was invaluable to me also - essential reading. Look out for other such similar reports - there's one by forum member 'makeorbrake' and others.

Kennypants wrote: »

I may follow the advice given and buy around March, but I’ll certainly look into getting loan approval in the new year and keeping a eye out for deals. I’m hoping (faintly) that a cheeky little 30kwh number may squeak in under budget around the change of reg season.

I'd definitely encourage purchasing in the UK. Things should have gotten cheaper since I purchased (directly in the days after brexit vote) - the fx rate has improved considerably since - but I'm not seeing that reflected in the prices on autotrader uk. Not sure whats at play there...albeit that there is the odd gem that comes up from time to time. Are you in a position to wait it out? i.e. bide your time and buy when what you want comes on the market...or will you have to sell your current vehicle around the same time?

Water John · 26-11-2016 5:57pm

Well, a top up at the fast charger in Macroom should come in handy for the Killarney run, 20/30 mins at most.

26-11-2016 7:13pm

samih wrote: »

Tow bars are available for Leaf and some folks in States are actually towing huge loads with them and they are coping fine (range excepted).

The Leaf has plenty of torque for pulling loads but I suppose they don't know the long term effects which I assume wouldn't be much if you pull the odd load and are not toeing a caravan up mountains and the likes regularly then I'd assume a different story.

Depending on the load and terrain it could put a lot of extra stresses on the battery and may cause it to heat up a lot more and they have no way to cool it, throw in a few fast charges and it could get quiet toasty.

26-11-2016 8:03pm

Kennypants wrote: »

Access to charging: My employers are a fairly forward-thinking bunch, and have already provided a multiplicity of charge points, far more than are already being used. This is handy, as we are currently renting (though saving for a deposit) and I don’t want to stick a charging point on a house that we may be leaving behind in a couple of years (though I’m sure my landlord would let me install one if I asked him—sound bloke).

Welcome to Boards.

I have free work charging and it's terrific, I used to charge in Naas for 10-15 mins daily. I commute 135-140 kms .

I wouldn't be too worried about public charger costs if you can charge in work, 75 KM round trip is perfect, you'll rarely need to worry about public charging . If they do bring charges so what if it costs something for the few times you will use it, work charging and the granny cable will mean very little public charging.

Kennypants wrote: »

VFM: With no VRT, we can buy ourselves a more modern car than we could otherwise afford. Our budget is not huge—probably looking at €13000—and, range notwithstanding, the Leafs (Leaves?) appear to be fairly well-specced and built.

Check this link.

http://www.ecocars.ie/viewanad.php?ad_id=1574421

He has a good rep here and he's here on boards.ie too, can't rem his name here.

It would save you having to go to the U.K.

You won't get a 30 Kwh on your budget, it only became available in 2016.

Kennypants wrote: »

Boot space: Can you fit a buggy in it? Is it usable as the only car for a family? (There’s just the two of us at the moment, but all going well there may be more). Will it do us as a practical vehicle for the next five years? I think it probably will, but others may have some insight here.

I can fit an Icandy Apple 2 Pear in, it's tight but fits. See the pic of the buggy.

Kennypants wrote: »

Range issue: 95% of our driving would be covered by the Leaf. Really, about 95%. It might make things awkward for the odd trip to Killarney (we live very near Cork) but I’m sure my dad would be happy to swap cars for a day or two of we needed to go for a longer spin. Still though, does anyone here head off for a day trip in faith, knowing that there will be a working charge point somewhere when they’ll need one? Or do ye generally fall back on the primary ICE in the family? This purchase has to be our only car, we simply can’t afford to run a second one.

We have 2 cars, the other is a Kia Cee'd Estate and it's got a lot better boot which is quiet handy so if we go for a very long trip we'll take that but that would be once or twice a year we might need it. I travel about 30,000 kms a year in the Leaf or just about.

Kennypants wrote: »

Granny cables: With work charging so freely available (and my commute is a 75km round trip) I think that we would probably only need to charge once or twice over a weekend. Many weekends may not need even that, we just run up “pottering” mileage on my off days much of the time. Are these cables generally hassle-free? Are they reliably waterproof?

Nothing wrong with the granny cable but I'd get a heavy duty extension lead, the socket of the extension won't be weather proof and you need this so get a weather proof socket at the other end rather than use the reel socket or get someone to make up a cable for you, that setup won't work for long in the rain or damp....

Kennypants wrote: »

I suppose my outreach here is basically predicated on this being our only car. Will it do the job? Are their serious issues that we are overlooking?

Yes you'll have to reduce your speed sometimes particularly in Winter driving but only when you want more range, for your commute you won't really need to, I charge at home and work and it's pedal to the metal most of the way.

I would say take a leaf for a 2 day test drive and see how it works for you, I guarantee you won't want to give it back, having a heated defogged car this time of the year is simply brilliant and would be most difficult to give up.

And if you need to drive slower sometimes I don't see that as a big deal.

Kennypants · 26-11-2016 8:39pm

I had a big thankful response all written out, replying point-by-point to all of you, and, somehow, it got lost. I think I was automatically logged out while I was typing.

Thanks a mill for the info. I'm reassured, at least, that we haven't overlooked anything major. I think that this could work for us alright.

I realise that the 30kWh is likely a little... ...optimistic.

Let me have one last dream, though!

26-11-2016 8:48pm

Judging by the sounds of it the 24 Kwh will suit you perfectly well, especially with work charging, just make sure it's the updated model from late 2013+, that one I linked to is a updated model (mid spec) which is more efficient with a much better battery than the original leaf 20111-late 2013 and it has the 6.6 Kw AC charger which means charging from the standard street charge points in half the time, saving time waiting at fast chargers should you travel further it, arrive in town , plug in and get 50% charge in 2 hrs, could be plenty for return trip. For instance, I travel to Blanch centre , 80 kms one way, plug in, 2-2.5 hrs later return to a almost fully charged car, 2 hrs would probably even get me home at a decent speed. I don't have to come back and then wait to fast charge.

That leaf is worth serious consideration !

pwurple · 26-11-2016 10:36pm

We are a 5 person family, 24kwh leaf for almost 2 years.

Buggy, yes, out n about nipper single, or double, both fit with loads of room. 2 isofix carseats, not a problem, with room in the middle for another person. Can't fit three carseats.

I've been exclusively charging at work for the last month or so. Not a problem. Enjoying preheating the car from my phone every evening and morning before i head off.

We live in cork city. Cork- Killarney is not a problem in the leaf. Piece of cake. Or dublin, galway, athlone, limerick. All easy peasy. The only time we took an ice was a trip to donegal.

I use public charging infrastructure once in a blue moon, so it really doesn't affect me. And you're going to love the cork benefits on drive4zero. Free parking in loads of places, all very well marked on street and in the multistories on the city.

KCross · 26-11-2016 11:02pm

@kennypants, sounds like it would suit you.

Will you be able to plug in the granny cable at your house?
I think that will be important since you are not keen on installing a proper EVSE in your rented house.

You don't want to depend on the public network from a money and practical perspective. If you can plug in the granny cable and protect it from the weather it will work fine for a day or two per week. I used the granny cable daily for a few months and it did the job fine. You just need to make sure you can keep the plug dry.

We are a family of five as well and it manages fine so no worries there.

kave2 · 27-11-2016 11:11am

Hi everyone, thinking about buying EV, more specifically Hyundai Ionic. Hopefully you guys will be able to answer my questions.

Is the charging point outside of the house is installed for free by esb? And then public charging is free too? How long is that going to stay free?

How long does the car keeps the charge? For example if I leave it on airport for 2 weeks, will there still be charge left?

How did you find the transition from ICE to EV? Was it difficult? We live in Galway, most of our driving is in the city and around, quite rarely to Dublin. I understand that I would have to stop for recharge in case of traveling further away. I'm just trying to find out EV owners opinions of how inconvenient it is the recharging on longer journeys.

Thanks a lot.

27-11-2016 12:00pm

kave2 wrote: »

Is the charging point outside of the house is installed for free by esb? And then public charging is free too? How long is that going to stay free?

Yes it's installed by the ESB, even if it weren't, the savings on Diesel would pay back in a short time.

kave2 wrote: »

How long does the car keeps the charge? For example if I leave it on airport for 2 weeks, will there still be charge left?

You could leave the car parked for months and it won't have much of an impact.

kave2 wrote: »

How did you find the transition from ICE to EV? Was it difficult? We live in Galway, most of our driving is in the city and around, quite rarely to Dublin. I understand that I would have to stop for recharge in case of traveling further away. I'm just trying to find out EV owners opinions of how inconvenient it is the recharging on longer journeys.

Thanks a lot.

The transition was scary at first, I have the 24 Kwh leaf so range will be a good bit less than the Ioniq. However now that I have it nearly 2 years and 54,000 Kms later I would not ever go back to ICE as my main car.

On very long trips you will have to lower your speed or charge more often or for longer.

Recharging is inconvenient if someone is charging when you get there and have to wait for them to finish and then charge your own. If you do it once in a while then it's not much of an issue.

You can use the AC charge points, called standard charge points, these will give a bout 100 kms range in 2 hrs of charge, so if you go on a very long trip and have to charge on route when you then get into town you can find an AC point. They are very useful, they will save a lot of time waiting at fast chargers.

Public charging is free for now, even when they do introduce charges and you don't use the network much then what does it matter if they do charge ?

Water John · 27-11-2016 12:25pm

Read and watch a few reviews to get an idea of real range, not advertised. Then apply this to your Dublin drive. Will you be charging once or twice enroute.
My hunch is, Athlone, Dublin, Athlone, charges. Quick charge of 30 mins each time.

27-11-2016 12:36pm

If charging sounds inconvenient to you and you want to buy now then there is no better EV available now than the Renault Zoe with 40 Kwh battery or wait another year and there will be the new leaf and by then the Ioniq should have at least twice the range.

The 40 Kwh Zoe will have a range of between 280 kms driving easy or 190 kms driving 130-140 Kph. Perhaps a speed of 110 could see somewhere in between , maybe 220-240 kms should be easily achievable.

There's a 38 Kwh updated E-Golf due soon also.

The Zoe 40 Kwh should do Dublin to Galway on one charge, perhaps a few mins of a fast charge if you drive quiet hard. At the moment there is no better alternative. I would imagine the 38 Kwh E-golf to be as over priced as ever.

The EPA range on the Ioniq is 120 miles (190 kms) and that is probably achievable at 100-110 Kph. It's seemingly quiet efficient.

BrianD3 · 27-11-2016 1:31pm

Deleted User wrote:

If charging sounds inconvenient to you and you want to buy now then there is no better EV available now than the Renault Zoe with 40 Kwh battery or wait another year and there will be the new leaf and by then the Ioniq should have at least twice the range.

The 40 Kwh Zoe will have a range of between 280 kms driving easy or 190 kms driving 130-140 Kph. Perhaps a speed of 110 could see somewhere in between , maybe 220-240 kms should be easily achievable.

There's a 38 Kwh updated E-Golf due soon also.

The Zoe 40 Kwh should do Dublin to Galway on one charge, perhaps a few mins of a fast charge if you drive quiet hard. At the moment there is no better alternative. I would imagine the 38 Kwh E-golf to be as over priced as ever.

The EPA range on the Ioniq is 120 miles (190 kms) and that is probably achievable at 100-110 Kph. It's seemingly quiet efficient.

These developments are good news for me. I currently commute a 200 km round trip on mostly N roads and my average speed is 65-80 km/h depending on traffic, weather, time of year etc. I think that EVs are just starting to become viable for me. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the next gen Leaf with 60 Kwh.

If a 200 km round trip sounds like a long commute, I might have to increase that if I want to progress my career. Maybe up to 350 km :eek:. I wouldn't do that unless a lot of it was motorway and at significantly higher average speed that I do currently. 350 km at an average speed of 110 km/h probably isn't going to be doable with a single charge in a reasonably priced EV for a good many years?

27-11-2016 1:48pm

At my current leaf efficiency of 18-19 Kwh/100 kms then 60 Kwh would give you a range of 315Kms. I expect future electrics to be more efficient, the Ioniq being an example of this. While my average maybe 18-19 Kwh/100 kms a hard drive in Winter could see 22 Kwh/100 kms or slightly more if the roads are very wet.

A 350 Km commute is just ridiculous, no offence , you're the one doing it of course but I'd rather move or take a less paying job or just learn to be content in the position I am. Life is quiet short without spending a significant part of it driving. I think my 135-140 Km commute is just about as much as I could tolerate, I just could not imagine over twice this.

100 Kms each way is far too much for me and I work shift so it would be downright dangerous.

Whatever EV you buy with that kind of mileage you'd be far better off waiting for a 2nd hand 60 Kwh or 2nd hand Model S and drive it into the ground or buy a new 60 Kwh and run that into the ground.

If you get work charging then a 60 Kwh would meet a 315 Km commute with great ease at 140 Kph. Remember, leaving 10-15 mins earlier is better than ripping down the motorway both for range and safety. The difference between 110 and 140 Kph isn't huge at all.

BrianD3 · 27-11-2016 2:35pm

Deleted User wrote: »

At my current leaf efficiency of 18-19 Kwh/100 kms then 60 Kwh would give you a range of 315Kms. I expect future electrics to be more efficient, the Ioniq being an example of this. While my average maybe 18-19 Kwh/100 kms a hard drive in Winter could see 22 Kwh/100 kms or slightly more if the roads are very wet.

A 350 Km commute is just ridiculous, no offence , you're the one doing it of course but I'd rather move or take a less paying job or just learn to be content in the position I am. Life is quiet short without spending a significant part of it driving. I think my 135-140 Km commute is just about as much as I could tolerate, I just could not imagine over twice this.

100 Kms each way is far too much for me and I work shift so it would be downright dangerous.

Whatever EV you buy with that kind of mileage you'd be far better off waiting for a 2nd hand 60 Kwh or 2nd hand Model S and drive it into the ground or buy a new 60 Kwh and run that into the ground.

If you get work charging then a 60 Kwh would meet a 315 Km commute with great ease at 140 Kph. Remember, leaving 10-15 mins earlier is better than ripping down the motorway both for range and safety. The difference between 110 and 140 Kph isn't huge at all.

Thanks Mad Lad, very good info there. With regard to the commute, I am well used to my current 200 km one, 350 would be a big step up but the effect would be lessened if more of it is on motorway. Yes, many people would find the idea of a 200 km commute to be absurd, let alone a 350 km one. For various reasons moving would not be an option for me although you are correct that being content with my current situation and not looking to increase the commute would be an option.

I have a 1.5 diesel Megane III at the moment. very economical and reliable car and I have a good driving style for economy. There's about 320k kms (~200 k miles) up on the car now and it is still on its original front brake pads and discs. The idea of driving an EV and being able to read the road and adjust the regen on the fly appeals to me

27-11-2016 3:12pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

Thanks Mad Lad, very good info there. With regard to the commute, I am well used to my current 200 km one, 350 would be a big step up but the effect would be lessened if more of it is on motorway. Yes, many people would find the idea of a 200 km commute to be absurd, let alone a 350 km one. For various reasons moving would not be an option for me although you are correct that being content with my current situation and not looking to increase the commute would be an option.

I have a 1.5 diesel Megane III at the moment. very economical and reliable car and I have a good driving style for economy. There's about 320k kms (~200 k miles) up on the car now and it is still on its original front brake pads and discs. The idea of driving an EV and being able to read the road and adjust the regen on the fly appeals to me

Sounds like you'd be better off waiting for about a year , see what Leaf II brings and try get your employer to install a charge point.

At that mileage EV would save you a fortune.

BrianD3 · 27-11-2016 9:21pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds like you'd be better off waiting for about a year , see what Leaf II brings and try get your employer to install a charge point.

At that mileage EV would save you a fortune.

I think I may be hitting a sweet spot here - I expect my current car to be good for at least another 2 years by which time there will be significant development in EVs and it may well be pointless for me to buy a new diesel/petrol car at that stage.

If my car was on its last legs right now, I'd be seriously considering the 41 Kwh Zoe assuming I could buy the battery pack. Range seem to be similar to that of a 60 Kwh Tesla Model S. Big changes from even 6 months ago. More big changes to come.

Once "extreme" commuters like me start seeing EVs as viable, does this signal the beginning of the end for ICE cars (in particular diesels) for daily drivers/A to B motoring.

Water John · 27-11-2016 9:28pm

I believe so, Brian. Once this takes off, it could be quite rapid. Think of many cities which will ban diesels and possibly put a future end date on petrol cars too.
Tech, will also change fairly rapidly and the sector matures.
There will be drivers, outside of the economics, that will push this change.

There is a network of gas points being rolled out for haulage vehicles, also.

Environment will be the big push. Carbon and harmful emission reduction.

A tipping point will also be, when some one thinking of buying a new ICE will realise that its 2nd hand value might be scrappage.

27-11-2016 11:16pm

BrianD3 wrote: »

I think I may be hitting a sweet spot here - I expect my current car to be good for at least another 2 years by which time there will be significant development in EVs and it may well be pointless for me to buy a new diesel/petrol car at that stage.

If my car was on its last legs right now, I'd be seriously considering the 41 Kwh Zoe assuming I could buy the battery pack. Range seem to be similar to that of a 60 Kwh Tesla Model S. Big changes from even 6 months ago. More big changes to come.

Once "extreme" commuters like me start seeing EVs as viable, does this signal the beginning of the end for ICE cars (in particular diesels) for daily drivers/A to B motoring.

Oh I don't think Zoe range would approach a 60 Kwh Model S.

The EPA rating for the 60 Kwh Model S is 334 Kms. A 40 Kwh Zoe would manage 190-280 kms easy to very hard driving but probably somewhere in between for most people, I would expect 240 Kms achievable without too much effort.

Car manufacturers are still not keen on making electrics because they're making far too much profit on ICE sales , our own Government has clearly shown it's not committed to increasing EV sales or cleaning up air quality in towns and cities.

I do hope the new leaf is really great, more range , power and a bigger boot and more automation.

mordeith · 28-11-2016 11:45am

Here's a reasonably large buggy in the boot of our 131.

28-11-2016 2:51pm

It's just an awkward shape. But yes you should have no problem fitting a buggy/pram. Fitting shopping at the same time is another matter but most hatches have the same problem.

I really wish there was an estate EV.

kave2 · 29-11-2016 10:53am

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes it's installed by the ESB, even if it weren't, the savings on Diesel would pay back in a short time.

You could leave the car parked for months and it won't have much of an impact.

The transition was scary at first, I have the 24 Kwh leaf so range will be a good bit less than the Ioniq. However now that I have it nearly 2 years and 54,000 Kms later I would not ever go back to ICE as my main car.

On very long trips you will have to lower your speed or charge more often or for longer.

Recharging is inconvenient if someone is charging when you get there and have to wait for them to finish and then charge your own. If you do it once in a while then it's not much of an issue.

You can use the AC charge points, called standard charge points, these will give a bout 100 kms range in 2 hrs of charge, so if you go on a very long trip and have to charge on route when you then get into town you can find an AC point. They are very useful, they will save a lot of time waiting at fast chargers.

Public charging is free for now, even when they do introduce charges and you don't use the network much then what does it matter if they do charge ?

Thanks very much for detailed answers Mad_Lad. Went for test drive again yesterday. Ride is quite good, even at higher speeds, very comfortable.

Interior plastic feels bit cheap, especially on doors. They are apparently made from recycled materials.

Zoe is too small for me, so that's out of the question. I'm not worried about the range, we don't do long journey very often, and even then is just matter of planning.

I was just wondering how is it going to hold it's value after 3 years, when trading in for upgraded version or perhaps different brand EV.

Anyway, still not 100% decided, also considering hybrids such as Toyota Prius(ugly as f... and more expensive), Kia Niro/Ionic hybrid.

Please help me decide :-)

29-11-2016 12:30pm

Take the Ioniq for a spin and see if they'll let you have it for a few days.

Yes the interior is made from a lot of recyclables , the carpet for instance is made from recycled plastic bottles and it shows. The leaf was designed at a time batteries cost a lot more so they had to compromise.

See it's not just about range this is why I was saying to consider the 40 Kwh Zoe, the more range you have the less you'd have to wait at a fast charger, I guarantee you'd appreciate it. You may very well put up with for the odd trip and this is fine but remember, if someone can easily pull up just before you and you'd have to wait up to 30-40 mins for someone to finish charging before you even get to charge taking a further 30-40 mins. A lot of people don't just get the range they need, they keep charging until they can't be bothered waiting any more and Zoe's charger is quiet powerful that charging at an AC point can get you to 80% in about 1.40 mins.

Anyway, you have a couple of options these days and if buying now then the Ioniq would be the better EV if you don't want a Zoe.

Resale value is anyones guess, I suppose the more range the car has will make it far more desirable 2nd hand.

There could be changes coming in the not too distant future that will make diesels very unattractive to buy killing diesel resale value, no one knows but it is getting harder and harder for manufacturers to clean up diesel exhaust.

I'd imagine that the Leaf will have less resale value than the Ioniq, older model, less range and not as nice inside and more gadgets, far better infotainment system etc, 7 Kw charger as standard.

kave2 · 29-11-2016 4:30pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Take the Ioniq for a spin and see if they'll let you have it for a few days.

Yes the interior is made from a lot of recyclables , the carpet for instance is made from recycled plastic bottles and it shows. The leaf was designed at a time batteries cost a lot more so they had to compromise.

See it's not just about range this is why I was saying to consider the 40 Kwh Zoe, the more range you have the less you'd have to wait at a fast charger, I guarantee you'd appreciate it. You may very well put up with for the odd trip and this is fine but remember, if someone can easily pull up just before you and you'd have to wait up to 30-40 mins for someone to finish charging before you even get to charge taking a further 30-40 mins. A lot of people don't just get the range they need, they keep charging until they can't be bothered waiting any more and Zoe's charger is quiet powerful that charging at an AC point can get you to 80% in about 1.40 mins.

Anyway, you have a couple of options these days and if buying now then the Ioniq would be the better EV if you don't want a Zoe.

Resale value is anyones guess, I suppose the more range the car has will make it far more desirable 2nd hand.

There could be changes coming in the not too distant future that will make diesels very unattractive to buy killing diesel resale value, no one knows but it is getting harder and harder for manufacturers to clean up diesel exhaust.

I'd imagine that the Leaf will have less resale value than the Ioniq, older model, less range and not as nice inside and more gadgets, far better infotainment system etc, 7 Kw charger as standard.

As I said earlier Zoe is too small, don't like the design, same goes for interior. Ionic looks like normal car, actually quite nice imo. It doesn't scream EV.

So now it's either Ionic EV or Kia Niro hybrid.

Nissan Leaf

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