Proposed changes to Irish rail commuter services from 9th December 2018

thomasj · 08-11-2018 5:11pm #1

Full details here:
http://www.irishrail.ie/news/december2018timetable

Full pdfs contained in link above alongwith, feedback process

Summary for Maynooth line passengers

Dublin/Maynooth/M3 Parkway/Longford

New earlier 05.58hrs Maynooth to Connolly
Six additional off-peak services each way daily Dublin Connolly to Maynooth (Mon to Fri) delivering half-hourly off-peak service during the day and up to 21.00hrs

13 additional off-peak services each way on Saturday Dublin Connolly to Maynooth delivering half-hourly service from 08.00hrs to 19.00hrs approx.

11 additional off-peak services each way on Sunday Dublin Connolly to Maynooth delivering:
Earlier first service from Maynooth at 08.00hrs
Half-hourly service on Sundays from 11.00hrs to 19.00hrs approx
Services extended to 23.00hrs approx. on Sunday evenings

M3 Parkway hourly service extended on Sunday evenings to provide connections at Clonsilla to and from later Maynooth services.
Alteration to running time of 17.17hrs Connolly to Longford between Mullingar and Longford

thomasj · 08-11-2018 5:14pm

Northern Commuters:

Northern Commuter

Three additional services from Connolly to Drogheda on Mondays to Fridays at 07.50hrs, 09.10hrs and 15.22hrs

Additional 06.52hrs DART Connolly to Malahide, to connect to northbound Northern Commuter service for customers from intermediate DART stations

Three additional services from Drogheda to Connolly on Mondays to Fridays at 09:00, 10:10 and 16:28
Results in increase in service to at least 2 trains per hour in each direction for majority of the day

22.05hrs Connolly/Drogheda service on Saturdays advanced to 21.45hrs.

New service on Saturdays from Connolly to Dundalk at 22:45

11 additional services on Sundays, delivering hourly service all day in each direction.

thomasj · 08-11-2018 5:17pm

and the PPT, Sligo and Rosslare lines

Phoenix Park Tunnel (Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch)

Hourly off-peak service on Mondays to Fridays between Grand Canal Dock and
Hazelhatch during the day and up to 23.20 at night.

Dublin / Sligo

Additional service Connolly to Sligo Monday to Friday: 06.55hrs and 09.05hrs Connolly to Sligo will operate, replacing existing 08.00hrs Connolly to Sligo
Saturday only 09.05hrs Connolly to Sligo will operate, replacing existing 08.00hrs Connolly to Sligo

Additional service Sligo to Connolly Monday to Saturday: 16.55hrs (17.00hrs Saturday) and 19.00hrs Sligo to Dublin Connolly, replacing existing 18.00hrs Sligo to Connolly

Altered running times to a number of existing services, including 07.05hrs Sligo to Dublin Connolly advanced to 06.40hrs

Dublin / Rosslare Europort

Monday to Friday: 17.33hrs Connolly to Wexford extended to Rosslare Europort; 18.35hrs Connolly to Rosslare Europort will terminate at Wexford

Saturday 09.40hrs Connolly to Rosslare Europort advanced to 08.05hrs

Sunday 09.45hrs Connolly to Rosslare Europort deferred to 10.25hrs; 09.30hrs Rosslare Europort to Connolly deferred to 09.40hrs

Mrs OBumble · 08-11-2018 5:24pm

They're proposing changes over a year in advance????

thomasj · 08-11-2018 5:28pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

They're proposing changes over a year in advance????

Haha, thinking ahead too far!

L1011 · 08-11-2018 5:35pm

Maynooth improvements badly needed and very welcome. Thought PPT might be half hourly off peak but it's a start and needed to get people used to the train if they want to stay anywhere close to the busconnects proposals.

Sightly concerned they're going to overwork the 29000s in to earlier failures though!

n97 mini · 08-11-2018 5:55pm

Still the same problem for me. Since Maynooth line lost weekend direct services to Pearse the bus is quicker to the city centre. I haven't used the train since.

Cookie_Monster · 08-11-2018 8:30pm

Three additional services from Drogheda to Connolly on Mondays to Fridays at 09:00, 10:10 and 16:28

Not really doing anything to help solve the morning rush mess on the northside...

thomasj · 08-11-2018 8:46pm

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

Not really doing anything to help solve the morning rush mess on the northside...

From what I can see there will be Northern live services stopping at:

Portmarnock @ 07.11, 07.29, 07.42, 07.52 and 08.43

Clongriffin @ 07.45 and 07.55

Howth Junction @ 06.48, 07.15, 07.47 and 08.47

ongarboy · 08-11-2018 9:14pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Still the same problem for me. Since Maynooth line lost weekend direct services to Pearse the bus is quicker to the city centre. I haven't used the train since.

That's unfortunate. There will always be a few that are disenfranchised but I think the vast majority of Maynooth, Leixlip and Dublin 15 residents will gain from this and it will influence others who may have avoided trains up to now to consider it as a viable option because of the improved frequencies.

L1011 · 08-11-2018 9:16pm

Only got to look at the timetable now, the Hazelhatch PPT and Heuston services are very well spaced (with one little wobble in the afternoon) to give a 30 min service to the city, albeit different stations.

thomasj · 08-11-2018 9:25pm

ongarboy wrote: »

That's unfortunate. There will always be a few that are disenfranchised but I think the vast majority of Maynooth, Leixlip and Dublin 15 residents will gain from this and it will influence others who may have avoided trains up to now to consider it as a viable option because of the improved frequencies.

This I have to agree with.

Just about squeezed on a 39a last night at 9pm on manor street tonight there was no room and waiting 15 minutes on the next one.

The notion of a luas to broombridge and a train to clonsilla, with that 30 minute frequency up to 9.20 has become more attractive.

Unless there's a drastic improvement to the 39A, that'll be my new way to work and back.

Rashers72 · 08-11-2018 10:52pm

Re Northern Suburban line:
1. All morning time inbound journey times were increased in the Sept timetable. In the proposed December timetable, they are not planning to fix that. In fact, they have either left the longer journey times the same, or in fact have increased the journey times again on 3 of the 8 inbound suburban trains.
2. In the evening outbound in the Sept timetable they increased journey time of 3 of the 7 trains. In the December timetable they are now increasing journey time on 5 of the 7 trains v's Sept.
3. Re morning and evening peak trains on Sat - they scapped all the direct to/from Pearse and Tara St. While they have reversed 1 of the trains they removed from the pre Sept timetable, and now run that right through to Pearse, but I think they should rethink all the service cuts. And all still removed from the evening timetable. The transfer times to the DART are still very long, in Connolly with journeys still up to 30% longer to Pearse.
I think IE need to reverse out the journey time increases in both the Sept and proposed Dec timetable, and bring back the journey times in operation for the past 20 years I used it. Each year they just become more uncompetitive. But with NTA having no interesr in representing Northern Suburban line customers we just have to suck it up.

ParkRunner · 08-11-2018 11:49pm

Have to agree with the above. The Northern commuter train is below cycling speed at this stage once it hits Malahide and at a light jogging speed practically from Killester. Less trains but with more capacity that actually move through the system makes more sense

uxiant · 09-11-2018 12:09am

ParkRunner wrote: »

Have to agree with the above. The Northern commuter train is below cycling speed at this stage once it hits Malahide and at a light jogging speed practically from Killester. Less trains but with more capacity that actually move through the system makes more sense

Less trains isn't the answer. Two new DART lines need to be created to Pearse via tunnels from Heuston and Docklands taking Maynooth and PPT trains out of the Connolly bottleneck. After that quad tracking the northern line would be another hugely positive step in improving transport in the city.

We've finally got our suburban rail network running to a half decent frequency for a city the size of Dublin. Reducing frequency would be a backwards step - now it's time to push on improving infrastructure.

ParkRunner · 09-11-2018 8:34am

uxiant wrote: »

Less trains isn't the answer. Two new DART lines need to be created to Pearse via tunnels from Heuston and Docklands taking Maynooth and PPT trains out of the Connolly bottleneck. After that quad tracking the northern line would be another hugely positive step in improving transport in the city.

We've finally got our suburban rail network running to a half decent frequency for a city the size of Dublin. Reducing frequency would be a backwards step - now it's time to push on improving infrastructure.

The new frequency is great but is just leading to congestion and slower speeds rather than a decent service. Quad tracking the northern line would be ideal but I’m not aware of any proposal to develop this. Are there any plans to develop new DART lines to Pearse?

thomond2006 · 09-11-2018 11:42am

Will the PPT service ever connect to Cork/Limerick intercity trains?

SeeMoreBut · 09-11-2018 12:01pm

Issue I see with PPT is the connection time to a Heuston service is bad a lot of the time. 20+ minutes connection time is awful.

5-10 minutes should be more than enough. e.g. 15.20 from GCD leaves you with a 25 minute wait in Hazelhatch or just go to Heuston for the same train at 16.20

40 minute window from 7:36 to 8.15 from Hazelhatch but that one is 20 minutes before and after these where one the middle would suit people in work for 9

thomasj · 09-11-2018 2:59pm

Would this be a better option for Northern users, if it was to come to pass?
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/fingalindependent/news/green-party-want-metrolink-to-extend-to-donabate-peninsula-36905255.html

I think the Broombridge LUAS and the new timetable will be a great thing for Maynooth line users and I think connectivity-wise, a metro connection would be brilliant for the Northern line.

bk · 09-11-2018 9:11pm

Rashers72 wrote: »

I think IE need to reverse out the journey time increases in both the Sept and proposed Dec timetable, and bring back the journey times in operation for the past 20 years I used it. Each year they just become more uncompetitive. But with NTA having no interesr in representing Northern Suburban line customers we just have to suck it up.

And yet this year more people will travel on Irish Rail and this line then any time in the history of rail in Ireland!

The simple reality is, the more services you have and the fuller the trains, the slower it will become (longer dwell times at stations, more congestion at junctions, etc.).

Carrying more people is more important then carrying less people faster. It isn't like you'd do any better by driving, the traffic congestion is even worse!

Of course we should be hurrying up with the Dart Expansion plans, which should help speed things up. Electric trains have faster acceleration, close junctions, triple and quad tracking and of course DU in the long term.

But those will likely take a decade or more, in the mean time they will have to try and just carry as many people as they can with what they have available.

People often complain that rains were faster 30 years ago, while forgetting to note that the rail network carries almost 3 times as many people today as it did 30 years ago.

bk · 09-11-2018 9:14pm

These changes are very welcome, in particular the big improvements off peak and weekends. It finally turns these routes into a proper all day, all week service and not just a peak time commuter service.

This sort of change was badly needed to maximise the use of these valuable resources we have in the rail routes. Hopefully we will see the same big increase in offpeak and weekend frequencies on the bus routes with BusConnects.

L1011 · 09-11-2018 9:44pm

bk wrote: »

Hopefully we will see the same big increase in offpeak and weekend frequencies on the bus routes with BusConnects.

They are proposing to cut the offpeak and weekend frequencies to Celbridge, surreally. Those buses are already full with most pax being Celbridge-bound (I have occasionally been the only one left after Salesians!)

The early service may get me out of the car for occasional times I need to be in work for 730; plenty of others need to do it more often than me and could definitely be converted. As peak traffic problems get earlier and earlier, getting people off the roads then is certainly worthwhile.

ThunbergsAreGo · 12-11-2018 10:26am

Are they planning on changing the Northern./Maynooth weekend trains not going to Pearse at any stage? or is this the new normal for these lines?

It makes me an awful lot less inclined to venture into town at the weekend

thomasj · 12-11-2018 10:30am

naughtb4 wrote: »

Are they planning on changing the Northern./Maynooth weekend trains not going to Pearse at any stage? or is this the new normal for these lines?

It makes me an awful lot less inclined to venture into town at the weekend

I don't think so but I can get used to tHe Maynooth line with the Luas connection at Broombridge, I'd be probably more inclined to use that if I was going south of Connolly.

ThunbergsAreGo · 12-11-2018 10:38am

thomasj wrote: »

I don't think so but I can get used to tHe Maynooth line with the Luas connection at Broombridge, I'd be probably more inclined to use that if I was going south of Connolly.

I asked on Twitter, this is a permanent change

Very disappointing

n97 mini · 12-11-2018 2:25pm

naughtb4 wrote: »

Are they planning on changing the Northern./Maynooth weekend trains not going to Pearse at any stage? or is this the new normal for these lines?

It makes me an awful lot less inclined to venture into town at the weekend

The loss of service to Pearse at weekends makes the bus from Leixlip quicker for me if I'm going to city centre (e.g. Westmoreland St area).

The M3 Parkway branch has lost a lot of attractiveness. 3 trains to get to Tara. Google maps is now not recommending the train at all for this journey from Dunboyne as the 70 is apparently quicker.

thomasj wrote: »

I don't think so but I can get used to tHe Maynooth line with the Luas connection at Broombridge, I'd be probably more inclined to use that if I was going south of Connolly.

I've only done it once. Wait time for connecting Luas was around 10 minutes and then Broombridge to Trinity took 30 minutes (traffic was bad). This is really poor compared to a through train to Tara, and even a properly timed connection in Connolly would beat it. EDIT: it's also more expensive. Adds €2.50 (cash) or 77c (Leap) to the cost.

I'm also seeing people on twitter going for the last connecting DART of the night, finding it's running late, and when they get to Connolly the last Maynooth train is gone. IE said if the connecting DART is running late they'll hold the Maynooth train, which doesn't seem always to be the case.

Unshelved · 13-11-2018 10:08am

Rashers72 wrote: »

Re Northern Suburban line:
1. All morning time inbound journey times were increased in the Sept timetable. In the proposed December timetable, they are not planning to fix that. In fact, they have either left the longer journey times the same, or in fact have increased the journey times again on 3 of the 8 inbound suburban trains.
2. In the evening outbound in the Sept timetable they increased journey time of 3 of the 7 trains. In the December timetable they are now increasing journey time on 5 of the 7 trains v's Sept.
3. Re morning and evening peak trains on Sat - they scapped all the direct to/from Pearse and Tara St. While they have reversed 1 of the trains they removed from the pre Sept timetable, and now run that right through to Pearse, but I think they should rethink all the service cuts. And all still removed from the evening timetable. The transfer times to the DART are still very long, in Connolly with journeys still up to 30% longer to Pearse.
I think IE need to reverse out the journey time increases in both the Sept and proposed Dec timetable, and bring back the journey times in operation for the past 20 years I used it. Each year they just become more uncompetitive. But with NTA having no interesr in representing Northern Suburban line customers we just have to suck it up.

From a Northern Commuter perspective, I can understand that our journey is slowed down due to more frequent Darts (although why Malahide Darts always seem to be scheduled just ahead of southbound Northern Commuter trains in the evening is a mystery to me) - slowing the service down even further by stopping at stations already served by the Dart is a real sickener. It's just picking up the slack of a dysfunctional Dart timetable.

Furthermore, for those of us who work at weekends, or outside peak-time commuter hours, lack of service to southside stations is adding about 20 minutes each way to the commute.

The Northern Suburban Line has long been the poor relation of the Dublin rail service - and it will only get worse as we return to unrestricted building along the railway line through Dublin, Meath and Louth, and increased passenger numbers. Not Irish Rail's fault - but they could show a little bit more consideration towards those passengers - especially at weekends and outside rush-hour.

ixoy · 13-11-2018 12:45pm

The survey form doesn't even have an option for DART customers so I presume they're only looking for feedback on the new changes but have no interest in asking about the recent mess they've made in September?

Decuc500 · 13-11-2018 7:39pm

ixoy wrote: »

The survey form doesn't even have an option for DART customers so I presume they're only looking for feedback on the new changes but have no interest in asking about the recent mess they've made in September?

Doesn't surprise me in the least. There is a real suck it up attitude to dart users. It's now a totally inadequate rush hour service and it's not going to get better any time soon.

Colonel Claptrap · 22-11-2018 8:51am

Noticed a few people with clipboards counting passengers at Pearse this morning.

thomasj · 22-11-2018 10:20am

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Noticed a few people with clipboards counting passengers at Pearse this morning.

Yeah that's the headcount that's done around the city every year , happens in november. Plenty of them counting passenger numbers on the buses as well at the moment

Edit: actually come to think of it, that was probably the annual Irish rail census. Last year's one was done on the 16th November.

Proposed changes to Irish rail commuter services from 9th December 2018

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