General gaming discussion

Retr0gamer · 25-08-2017 11:03am

After finding Destiny to be some of the best shooting mechanics wrapped around a game designed to completely and utterly waste your time with mechanics on top of mechanics that are just a different version of the same grind.... I'm steering well clear.

It's skinner box the game. You sit down and when you put the controller down realise hours have past yet feel you've achieved absolutely nothing and could be playing something else that doesn't leave you with a hollow feeling inside.

Kiith · 25-08-2017 12:00pm

As someone who's spent 10+ years playing World of Warcraft, i'm used to that feeling :P

Notorious · 25-08-2017 12:28pm

Kiith wrote: »

As someone who's spent 10+ years playing World of Warcraft, i'm used to that feeling :P

Are you still playing Kiith? I went back to Legion but I couldn't get into it. After years of leaving and then returning to WoW, I felt like I was done.

Kiith · 25-08-2017 12:31pm

Yeah, still playing. I pop in every few months, get briefly hooked, and then realise I'm not really enjoying it that much and quit. That's been a pretty recurring theme for the last few years. Currently still enjoying it though, and just levelling some alts as they made it much easier to play multiple characters with the catch up mechanics. Looking forward to 7.3 for the completion to the current story.

Stone Deaf 4evr · 25-08-2017 2:08pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

After finding Destiny to be some of the best shooting mechanics wrapped around a game designed to completely and utterly waste your time with mechanics on top of mechanics that are just a different version of the same grind.... I'm steering well clear.

It's skinner box the game. You sit down and when you put the controller down realise hours have past yet feel you've achieved absolutely nothing and could be playing something else that doesn't leave you with a hollow feeling inside.

Thats a line thats constantly trotted out and it does the game a massive disservice.

I'll always have memories of going into the vault of glass with low quality weapons and taking 7 or so hours to get through it. Same for the lantern run in crotas end, all your teammates essentially making a circle and trying to move onwards through the darkness, then hold the hordes at bay while getting the bridge to materialise. I'll always remember running the totems perfectly as a group, no chatter outside of 'switch', 'swapping out' etc. The laughs had as fellas repeatedly failed the jumping section after golgoroth etc.

I've been one of destinys harshest critics on occasion, but that game has given me some of the highest highs I've had in gaming.

Retr0gamer · 25-08-2017 2:15pm

It's not a total trainwreck, it's just the fun to bull**** ratio is heavily in favour of the latter. I mean to get to the raids you had to play through 20 hours of boring. And even if Vault of Glass was fun, it's all the game had for a very long time.

[Deleted User] · 25-08-2017 2:26pm

Anyone see a former lead writer at Valve released the story to Half Life 3 (or potentially Half Life 2 Episode 3 - there's some confusion) and pretty much confirming we'll never get it?

Stone Deaf 4evr · 25-08-2017 2:33pm

boneyarsebogman wrote: »

Anyone see a former lead writer at Valve released the story to Half Life 3 (or potentially Half Life 2 Episode 3 - there's some confusion) and pretty much confirming we'll never get it?

This post is useless without links!

[Deleted User] · 25-08-2017 2:35pm

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

This post is useless without links!

True enough

johnny_ultimate · 25-08-2017 2:47pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's not a total trainwreck, it's just the fun to bull**** ratio is heavily in favour of the latter. I mean to get to the raids you had to play through 20 hours of boring. And even if Vault of Glass was fun, it's all the game had for a very long time.

Yep. I played through one of the most insipid campaigns I've ever played through... and still had 10-20 hours to go until the 'good stuff'. That to me is actual contempt for the player's time, and completely turned me off Destiny for good.

I also believe that the social element is true with most multiplayer co-op games. Sure, Destiny has a bit more effort put in, but there's plenty of adequate to great games that are made significantly better when playing with a friend. Hell, even bad games are better with a friend.

I was playing Overcookd the other night in 2-player, and within an hour we were conjuring up insane co-op plans and just shouting single words at each other to communicate. That game delivers quickly and immediately begins mixing it up to keep you on your toes. Destiny? Not so much.

Generic Dreadhead · 25-08-2017 3:16pm

What other 6 player co-operative PvE console games exist?

I mean I was playing the below last week and had a blast, but I wouldn't go comparing it to playing Evolve

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gimli2112 · 25-08-2017 3:20pm

Should I just post Destiny is fantastic, to add some objective balance?

Generic Dreadhead · 25-08-2017 3:24pm

gimli2112 wrote: »

Should I just post Destiny is fantastic, to add some objective balance?

I say we just stay in our box. Any attempts to change anyones minds on this kind of stuff is futile.

Just think it's funny how completely different comparisons are made to suit the usual group-think rhetoric.

Usually because it's fashionable now to be acceptingly-dismissive of Destiny now (instead of the outright vitriolic circle jerking that was fashionable in 2014->2015) as people don't want to accept that the game actually was fixed, added to, iterated on, rebalanced and so on and so forth :rolleyes:

It would be like me popping up in Gran Turismo thread saying how 2-player campaign in Rock and Roll Racing on the SNES was much more fun than selecting my tire pressure for my C license reversing test :P

Falthyron · 25-08-2017 3:24pm

gimli2112 wrote: »

Should I just post Destiny is fantastic, to add some objective balance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrXr8PcW4CY

CatInABox · 25-08-2017 3:31pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

It would be like me popping up in Gran Turismo thread saying how 2-player campaign in Rock and Roll Racing on the SNES was much more fun than selecting my tire pressure for my C license reversing test :P

Well, in fairness, it was..... :pac:

I don't actually have a problem with Destiny, never hated it or anything, just not my thing. The number of articles though, that caused me to despair. Like seriously, a weekly article on the front page of a fairly large website, detailing what was in the shop that week? I thought that stuff like that was excessive.

johnny_ultimate · 25-08-2017 3:33pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Just think it's funny how completely different comparisons are made to suit the usual group-think rhetoric.

I was merely pointing out how social interaction quickly makes a game more enjoyable - and using a game that IMO delivers co-op gameplay that does not require two dozen hours of play before opening up

The only two online multiplayer games I've played recently - Splatoon 2 (Salmon Run is fantastic, no nosense PvE) and PUBG - also both deliver the goods without fat, and pretty immediately, as a more direct comparison.

I don't expect to change many or indeed any people's opinions - I respect that many people like or indeed love the game, and that it received a lot of work since I played vanilla. Happy to leave the more thorough discussions happen in the forum without pointlessly interjecting how crappy I think it is.

Personally never saw anything that would change my mind that it was filler-packed nonsense with a regrettable attitude towards the player's time, though, and this is a general discussion after all rather than a dedicated thread about the game. But again, have read plenty of interesting, articulate thoughts on it over the years even if I disagree with 'em, and I'm sure that will be the case when part two arrives

Generic Dreadhead · 25-08-2017 3:46pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Splatoon 2 (Salmon Run is fantastic, no nosense PvE) and PUBG - also both deliver the goods without fat, and pretty immediately, as a more direct comparison.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Salmon Run on Splatoon 2 time gated? I could not play this activity for a lot of the time I've owned the game. The area was closed

johnny_ultimate · 25-08-2017 3:56pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the Salmon Run on Splatoon 2 time gated? I could not play this activity for a lot of the time I've owned the game. The area was closed

It is! I think Nintendo like 'eventising' things like that! Would be great if it was open all the time, but when it is it's straight-up, immediately gratifying co-op

I do have a few issues with the way Splatoon does things, incidentally: I think the difference is even when there's a some weird quirks and restrictions (like unlocking modes as you go on), there's actually lots of really great stuff from a very early stage in the game and doesn't feel like you're just waiting to get to the better stuff. Not to mention there's always the pleasingly episodic and imaginative campaign to spend a few hours with to break up the pace!

aaronjumper · 25-08-2017 4:40pm

Well I'm still addicted to Overwatch and Final Fantasy XV. Currently taking a break from Mafia 3 and Elite Dangerous.

Trying to decide if I want to buy Dead By Daylight, looks like fun.
I see that people are getting bored with Friday 13th until the new maps and game modes are released.

As for Destiny I think it is great, if you stick to the activities you enjoy instead of trying to do everything for a max light level that won't matter in a few weeks you enjoy yourself more.
I always enjoyed patrols and strikes so that is where I spent most of my time, with the odd hop into the Mayhem gametype that was added to the crucible.

Retr0gamer · 25-08-2017 4:42pm

I just feel Destiny is a really vapid experience. It's a glorified chat box. Something branded to put on while you chat to mates. Sure the Raids do require a bit more team work. The whole character development system is just layers of grinding for grindings sake. That's something you can level at nearly ever MMO but I feel Destiny is particulately blatant about it.

What's so maddening is that it has the mechanics there to make on of the finest shooters ever yet it's just surrounding a game of hollow repetition. Even if Destiny 2 is a big improvement I probably won't dip in as I was burned so badly beforehand and the people reviewing will be Destiny fan boys who will Gobble it up and not be objective.

aaronjumper · 25-08-2017 4:46pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I just feel Destiny is a really vapid experience. It's a glorified chat box. Something branded to put on while you chat to mates. Sure the Raids do require a bit more team work. The whole character development system is just layers of grinding for grindings sake. That's something you can level at nearly ever MMO but I feel Destiny is particulately blatant about it.

What's so maddening is that it has the mechanics there to make on of the finest shooters ever yet it's just surrounding a game of hollow repetition. Even if Destiny 2 is a big improvement I probably won't dip in as I was burned so badly beforehand and the people reviewing will be Destiny fan boys who will Gobble it up and not be objective.

It's funny you say that because I usually play Destiny alone, only linking up with friends for Raids or Nightfall strikes.

It's not a style of game that is for everyone that is for sure and I have a few friends that burned themselves out on it trying to do everything as fast as possible instead of enjoying themselves.

It's like people are so worried about getting to the top they forget to enjoy the journey.
Maybe that's the filthy casual in me talking though.

Jordan 199 · 25-08-2017 4:58pm

I'm playing Assassin's Creed 2 at the moment and it's a very enjoyable game. I should have it completed this weekend.

My copy of Uncharted: The Lost Legacy arrived in the post yesterday and I'm going to get cracking at that over the next few days.

Generic Dreadhead · 25-08-2017 5:11pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

The people reviewing will be Destiny fan boys who will Gobble it up and not be objective.

What a pathetic statement where you just throw the entirety of games journalism into one bucket before the fact. Thats the kind of stubbornness I'd expect from a petulant teenager.

Don't buy the game, no-one is really gonna care, have your opinion on it, feel the developers and publishers did XYZ wrong/right, the genre is great/bad blah blah whatever... that's all good.

But you're dismissiveness of basically what anyone could or would say about it before the event? Thats the Gaming equivalent of being a Flat-Earthist. "All reviewers are wrong cause I say so"

At least a lot of any games detractors here can post their honest and reasonable or even passionate (or humorous) statements about xyz but most of us are happy to entertain discussion and even be proven wrong or agree to disagree.

It's like you're actively regressing in your ability to be objectively critically or analytical about anything that doesn't fit your 2,000 criteria. I couldn't give a toss about about Final Fantasy or JRPG's I wouldn't in all honesty say "Oh anyone reviewing FFVII rerelease is gonna be a fanboy and gobble gobble", I'd go to the sources I trust to remain somewhat objective, read up on it (maybe?) and go on with my life, or buy the game, or not.

Aren't you meant to be here, as a moderator to prevent statements like Fanboy being thrown around willy nilly and causing conflict and damaging healthy discussion and debate?

aaronjumper · 25-08-2017 5:21pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

-and the people reviewing will be Destiny fan boys who will Gobble it up and not be objective.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Thats the kind of stubbornness I'd expect from a petulant teenager.

Here we go again.

Retr0gamer · 25-08-2017 5:36pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

What a pathetic statement where you just throw the entirety of games journalism into one bucket before the fact. Thats the kind of stubbornness I'd expect from a petulant teenager.

Don't buy the game, no-one is really gonna care, have your opinion on it, feel the developers and publishers did XYZ wrong/right, the genre is great/bad blah blah whatever... that's all good.

But you're dismissiveness of basically what anyone could or would say about it before the event? Thats the Gaming equivalent of being a Flat-Earthist. "All reviewers are wrong cause I say so"

At least a lot of any games detractors here can post their honest and reasonable or even passionate (or humorous) statements about xyz but most of us are happy to entertain discussion and even be proven wrong or agree to disagree.

It's like you're actively regressing in your ability to be objectively critically or analytical about anything that doesn't fit your 2,000 criteria. I couldn't give a toss about about Final Fantasy or JRPG's I wouldn't in all honesty say "Oh anyone reviewing FFVII rerelease is gonna be a fanboy and gobble gobble", I'd go to the sources I trust to remain somewhat objective, read up on it (maybe?) and go on with my life, or buy the game, or not.

Aren't you meant to be here, as a moderator to prevent statements like Fanboy being thrown around willy nilly and causing conflict and damaging healthy discussion and debate?

And that there people is an example of jumping to conclusions and labelling people with your own prejudices.

Also as a moderator I'm here to stop people escalating arguments when somebody states an opinion they don't agree with.

Anyway...

I'm not saying all reviewers are wrong. What's going to happen is Destiny will be given for review to people already invested in Destiny. Those opinions don't matter to me because I already know Destiny isn't for me. What I'd love is a reviewer who can tell me if I don't like Destiny there's still a good 10- 20 hour campaign with those sexy gunplay mechanics you can play outside of the grind that isn't a repetitive slog.

I can actually see why people do enjoy Destiny but loot games have rarely clicked with me. But I don't think anyone can argue that it's a game with wasted potential that could be so much better than it is. I'm hoping Destiny 2 does a titanfall 2 and surprises me but with Activision involved I can see them just doubling down on the MMO stuff.

SolvableKnave · 25-08-2017 6:15pm

You want an objective review of Destiny 2? Wait for AngryJoes review. He feels the same about D1 as you. He'll be trying D2. Wait for his review. Till then.......

RasTa · 25-08-2017 7:11pm

Meh Destiny, never played it and never will.

Any good gaming experiences out these days that's not a mini movie? I'm waiting to get a 2nd hand copy of the Uncharted DLC because at least their movies have some entertainment.

I have resi evil 4 but can't play it due to the controls. Maybe I need a Switch.

gimli2112 · 25-08-2017 7:49pm

Retr0gamer wrote: »

And that there people is an example of jumping to conclusions and labelling people with your own prejudices.

Also as a moderator I'm here to stop people escalating arguments when somebody states an opinion they don't agree with.

Anyway...

I'm not saying all reviewers are wrong. What's going to happen is Destiny will be given for review to people already invested in Destiny. Those opinions don't matter to me because I already know Destiny isn't for me. What I'd love is a reviewer who can tell me if I don't like Destiny there's still a good 10- 20 hour campaign with those sexy gunplay mechanics you can play outside of the grind that isn't a repetitive slog.

I can actually see why people do enjoy Destiny but loot games have rarely clicked with me. But I don't think anyone can argue that it's a game with wasted potential that could be so much better than it is. I'm hoping Destiny 2 does a titanfall 2 and surprises me but with Activision involved I can see them just doubling down on the MMO stuff.

You see this is the issue, there was no need for the first line and as you say you should be looking to take the heat out of the situation.

The rest of the post is well stated, if you could just moderate the passive aggressive stuff everyone would calm down, well most people.

RasTa · 25-08-2017 8:08pm

Pretty funny to see a cmod breaking their own charter as well but no point in complaining, nothing is ever done.

johnny_ultimate · 25-08-2017 11:37pm

Enfilade wrote: »

I didn't know it was out , I got so used to seeing it for pre-order at the top of the new releases list on the phone app I ignored it. Liked Bastion and Transistor a lot.

It's been out about a month now, and the more I play the more impressed I am. Without spoiling anything, the game forces you to make legitimately difficult choices that are considerably more weighty than any I've seen in a game. They force you to consider both the narrative and gameplay consequences of your decisions.

It's a beautiful, clever and artful piece of work, and easily one of the best of recent years. Supergiant are a studio that just seem to get better and better with each passing work.

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