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What type of saw do I need?

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    #32
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    my3cents wrote: »
    How many do you want what sizes and how often?

    You'd could pay for an awful lot of cutting for the cost of a table saw.

    The ones im working on now are 22 cm X 31 cm.


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    #33
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    Always Tired wrote: »
    The ones im working on now are 22 cm X 31 cm.

    But how quickly do you get through them?

    If you went to somewhere with carpentry shop you could pay them to cut up whatever you wanted to whatever size you needed just the same as you could pay them to make a door or a window frame.


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    #34
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,382 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    A track saw would be far more manageable than a table saw. Most are horrendous at cutting sheets as they’re so small.

    Aldi had a very good track saw a few weeks ago. Got some very clean cuts with it and it’s very easy to use.


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    #35
    Always Tired
    Closed Accounts Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Always Tired


    listermint wrote: »
    You can easily get down to foot by foot with a track saw.

    And it will be cheaper for him to cut down large pieces into what he wants.

    I'd the most ideal tool. He's not making small pieces of a foot is what he needs then that's very achievable

    Cheers, I've looked them up and I think you're probably right. The smallest I do are 8 in x 10 in, i do that size and 9 x 11 quite often.


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    #36
    dodzy
    Registered Users Posts: 9,919 ✭✭✭dodzy


    For those sizes, circular saw with guide rail would be the least cumbersome and well up to the job. Jigsaw was mentioned above. Steer clear of this if you want accuracy.


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    #37
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    Another voice for the tracksaw chorus - as a beginner with what you are trying to cut; a table saw is not what you need here.

    Have a look at Peter Millard's tracksaw series on YouTube - it'll help.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JQjGwZT3Ak&list=PL7S6M0i1Mz9pf2uo5SpFSWrQOu0qpjeIs

    1) Tablesaw unwieldy and dangerous for cutting full size sheets unless you own a panel saw worth thousands -> which is not your use case as a beginner.
    2) Jigsaw -> extremely difficult to get a fine and straight enough finish for your use case.
    3) Circular saw -> better than both of the above but you'll struggle to get accurate 90 and 45 degree cuts even with a guide.
    4) Tracksaw -> a circular saw on a proprietary guide rail; much easier to get those accurate cuts, mobile and can be adapted with numerous add-ons such as an MFT or Parf table later.


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    #38
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    chillyspoon wrote: »
    ...

    1) Tablesaw unwieldy and dangerous for cutting full size sheets unless you own a panel saw worth thousands -> which is not your use case as a beginner.


    .....

    All you need for larger sheets is a couple of roller stands. The only problem with the average DIY tablesaw is that the table is small.


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    #39
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    my3cents wrote: »
    All you need for larger sheets is a couple of roller stands. The only problem with the average DIY tablesaw is that the table is small.

    Yes - the core capacity can be achieved through rollers or better, to build the saw flush into a wider bench. However the OP is a self-stated absolute beginner, which makes other issues more important:

    1) weight -> under the weight of a full sheet of 1/2" + material, even with roller support the saw will move unless bolted to the floor. I've done this on multiple types of job site saw from Einhell junk through to high end mobile saw, there's nothing quite like the cold sweat of feeling the entire saw begin to lift up when you're halfway through a sheet of 3/4" ply. For a beginner - this is downright dangerous.
    2) power -> related to the above; most people are much stronger than the motors in cheap entry table level saws - anything under 1600 watts can easily be outpaced by someone pushing a full sheet through it.
    3) beginner -> through no fault of their own does not know yet how to safely move something as big as a full sheet on a table saw. Period. Again I know this from personal mistakes. It's all too easy to drift off square and to bind in the blade.
    4) price -> to buy a saw strong enough and heavy enough to handle full sheets safely on a regular basis is going to cost real money. An entry level track saw can be purchased for a couple of hundred euro, leaving money in the bank to invest in a tablesaw later if the tool bug bites, which is more palatable for most beginners.
    5) space -> to put full sheets through a table saw requires either a permanent space big enough for the table saw to live ready to use, with that capacity taken into account or the pain of moving your tablesaw (which need to be heavy enough, have a strong enough motor etc per the above points) out somewhere big enough to do it each time it's done... whereas a tracksaw can simply be taken off a shelf, with the sheet to be cut laid the floor on top of a few scraps of 2x4 or a panel of insulation; exactly as the OP described in their original post.

    All that said..

    The table saw wins hands down on the ability to cut accurate mitres without much further investment. You can build a mitre sled for a tablesaw from a few bits of plywood in a couple of hours, which will be more than accurate enough for framing purposes.

    To do the same thing in conjunction with a tracksaw for panel breakdown requires:
    - really, really careful angle measurement or
    - a mitre box and handsaw or
    - either buying or building an MFT, Parf style or equivalent workstation bench or
    - purchasing a sufficiently accurate mitre saw and a fine enough blade to suit your framing needs.

    Since the OP already got a mitre box, it sounds like you're ok for the framing part and it's just the panels themselves that you need to break down, so I still think a tracksaw sounds like the approach to give you the least headaches.


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    #40
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    Just one last thing - I noticed you're in Donegal OP; give Stanley at W.H. Raitt (https://www.whraitt.ie) a call - if there's somewhere local that would do the large cutting for you but might not be obvious without being in the business he might know some extra options.


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    #41
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    my3cents wrote: »
    All you need for larger sheets is a couple of roller stands. The only problem with the average DIY tablesaw is that the table is small.

    That is not the only problem.

    A table saw because you are feeding the piece in to it can easily catch the piece of the feeding person gets it slightly wrong left or right .

    Have you ever had a working piece catch the blade and fire back at you . You'll swallow your heart for a moment.

    There are many problems with a table saw . This is he most prolific. Not machines for beginners at all


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    #42
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    listermint wrote: »
    That is not the only problem.

    A table saw because you are feeding the piece in to it can easily catch the piece of the feeding person gets it slightly wrong left or right .

    Have you ever had a working piece catch the blade and fire back at you . You'll swallow your heart for a moment.

    There are many problems with a table saw . This is he most prolific. Not machines for beginners at all

    Kickback is really not an issue with sheet materials. A full sheet while awkward is too heavy to move much in the worst conditions and once you have a sheet ripped down you are invariably going to cut against a fence to make the most accurate cuts.

    I'd be far more worried about loosing fingers than kickback.


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    #43
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    my3cents wrote: »
    Kickback is really not an issue with sheet materials. A full sheet while awkward is too heavy to move much in the worst conditions and once you have a sheet ripped down you are invariably going to cut against a fence to make the most accurate cuts.

    I'd be far more worried about loosing fingers than kickback.

    Kickback is always an issue.

    Please stop. Cheers


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    #44
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    listermint wrote: »
    Kickback is always an issue.

    Please stop. Cheers

    Every so often google and your imagination let you down.

    I've been cutting down 8x4 sheets this week as a lining to a shed and no sign of any kickback even with my less than practical son helping and making a mess of it.

    I'm not saying that using a table saw is safe but your just making it up and looking for reasons to say don't use one.


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    #45
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,613 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    my3cents wrote: »
    Every so often google and your imagination let you down.

    I've been cutting down 8x4 sheets this week as a lining to a shed and no sign of any kickback even with my less than practical son helping and making a mess of it.

    I'm not saying that using a table saw is safe but your just making it up and looking for reasons to say don't use one.


    Solid way to burn a table saws motor out. But sure go for it . You've been giving enough zanny advice about the definition of sds on another thread.


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    #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    my3cents wrote: »
    Every so often google and your imagination let you down.

    I've been cutting down 8x4 sheets this week as a lining to a shed and no sign of any kickback even with my less than practical son helping and making a mess of it.

    I'm not saying that using a table saw is safe but your just making it up and looking for reasons to say don't use one.

    I find myself in agreement with you more often than not, on a whole host of different threads and subjects. This isn't one of them. :o

    I've had all sorts of tablesaws, from cheap SIP 10" ones with crap blades, then half decent Freud blades, then a Makita with a much better fence, a Record cabinet saw and a big german table saw with a sliding carriage.

    Every single one of them could beat the crap out of you with a piece of flung sheet or cause real damage. Apart from some decent built-in safety related stuff on the bigger and better saws, there's no difference. A table saw can be a right bitch at times.

    25 years of use and I still put my blinkers on, stand off where possible, pushstick the feck out of stuff and won't let anyone near me or the saw while it's running. The only safe table saw is one that's not running. Too many fellas missing fingers, half a hand, scars elsewhere, suffering serious bruising and the occasional broken bone/rib to be taking a relaxed 'sure, it'll be grand' approach to them.

    A piece of Kingspan on the ground and a track saw or a decent fence and circular saw. Safer, relatively affordable, easy to move around and store. Worlds better for cross cutting than ANY table saw without a carriage. I don't see how you'd be okay with pushing a table saw on a novice, to be honest.


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    #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    my3cents wrote: »
    Kickback is really not an issue with sheet materials. A full sheet while awkward is too heavy to move much in the worst conditions and once you have a sheet ripped down you are invariably going to cut against a fence to make the most accurate cuts.

    I'd be far more worried about loosing fingers than kickback.

    That's the particularly risky move to be making, exactly when a kickback is most likely. And if you've never seen the way a 10" cheap saw with an alloy or folded steel top and a plastic base will shift when it happens, maybe you don't realise that losing fingers when it happens is far from impossible.

    Have a look at this, and be patient, as he's not exactly all set up for a life on camera.



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    #48
    chillyspoon
    Registered Users Posts: 549 ✭✭✭chillyspoon


    Have a look at the Triton tracksaw OP, it's not as fancy as the DeWalt and Festool options but is a bit better spec'd than the Aldi/Scheppach entry level saw and should be plenty for your needs. If you look up Matt Cremona on YouTube, you can see him use this saw in loads of his table and bench builds.


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    #49
    Klopp
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Klopp


    I tried Lidl for the saw on the day albeit later than i planned and they had none left in stock.I am looking at the Makita HS7601J on Amazon for a few DIY projects and fixings i need to get started on.


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    #50
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,008 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    Has anyone replaced the standard 6-8ft cord on a common saw (e.g. Makita, DeWalt, Bosch) with a very long one?

    On several US Youtube videos I've seen them working with Skilsaws that are fitted with 12-18m cords, and I can see how that would be incredibly useful. Extension cords are a pain in the hole.

    I dimly remember something about cord replacement being practically illegal now, but hopefully that's bollocks.


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    #51
    Four Phucs Ache
    Registered Users Posts: 1,017 ✭✭✭Four Phucs Ache


    I did years ago Lumen, just bought a matching certified 10m cord reel and certified insulated connector and did it myself.


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    #52
    GinSoaked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭GinSoaked


    I've done that a few times. Had a DIY mate that had me put longer leads on all his tools. Didn't find any of them particularly difficult although some were a bit tricky to get back together.


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    #53
    Klopp
    Registered Users Posts: 480 ✭✭Klopp


    Anyone use or have the MacAllister MSPS1200 on Screwfix? How did you find it for DIY around the home?



    Also, any tips for a setup with a tracksaw to cut sheets of plywood without a table?


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