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Stuck in a loop

  • 25-12-2018 9:19pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭


    So I've had a major problem for about the last 14 months, whereby I'll write 70% of a track, and then stop, running out of ideas, or having spent so much time on the track that I'm either no longer interested in it, or no longer feel it's good enough for me to finish.

    At the moment I'm working on a track that 4 weeks ago was potentially the best track I'd ever done, and now that I'm trying to actually finish it (I'll explain what that means in a sec), I'm losing interest, and this has happened with at least 5 tracks!! :mad:

    What I mean by finishing it is this - when I'm working on a track, I come up with all the loops, sounds and sequences I need to be able to finish it. I use Ableton, and will pause or unmute tracks I want to hear at specific times, to get a feel of what I want to end up with. When I go about trying to layout the track in arrangement view, I lose it. Sometimes I'll get to 95% complete, with all FX and everything, and it just doesn't sound like I'd hoped, so I quit and move on, and on, etc.... It's very frustrating!!

    How do you go about making sure the loops (if that's how you work) end up as complete tracks? Do you compose tracks a different way? For what it's worth, I started composing tracks this way using Cubase, making the move to Ableton about 2 years ago, though I don't blame Ableton as I find it much easier to use and mess around with than the version of Cubase I was using, which was often a struggle.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,278 ✭✭✭mordeith


    I don't think your method is necessarily contributing to your issue. I work differently and tend to arrange the track as I go. I'll start with something like lead melody or bass line and start building the track with that adding the percussion and other elements as the track progresses. Often this means rewriting the initial idea as I add more elements to the track the original bits don't fit. However I also have problems finishing a track. With me though it's not the arrangement, it's those missing loops, fx hits or pads that I'm usually trying to tie down. So I guess no matter what your work flow is like you will sometimes have periods of poor productivity. Just have to persevre I suppose or maybe experiment with creating a track in a different way to see if that helps.
    That's my two cents anyway :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,933 ✭✭✭SuprSi


    Thanks for the suggestions, it's never the FX side - first and foremost I like listening to music, which obviously gets in the way of composing, but it means I've no problem searching through loads of samples to find either the exact FX or something I can use to create the FX I need (if I can't create it, which is usually the case!). I find I need this to happen as otherwise the track very quickly becomes boring, however the more FX and stuff I add, the longer it takes to finish the track, leading me back to my original problem!

    I used to be able to write a full track a month, although my knowledge of composing has increased significantly, and a byproduct of that is that I spend an awful lot of time on EQ, or compression, which again doesn't really get me much further forward.

    I still enjoy it, it would just be nice to occasionally finish a full track, to show the fruits of my labours!! I might try just laying down a beat, or building a beat for a full track in arrangement view, then layering stuff on top of it to see if that works. It'd at least be different to how I normally do it, so may yield positive results!


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    Exact same struggle here.

    Its like saying the same word over and over again, starts to lose it's meaning.

    I'm trying to be looser about my idea of "finished". It's better to finish a **** track than constantly searching for "good enough" if that makes sense.

    Trying to finish ideas out as best I can and move on to the next thing. Nothing is set in stone, can always revisit when inspiration hits. And I find giving the unfinished stuff a bit of space helps with the self criticism.


  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭micky jammy delahunty


    Ever notice a lot of the most successful producers, work as team.

    Basically, one person can pick up when the other runs out of steam, and keep the project going.

    If you're using Ableton, have you considered trying to create a rough track using loops in the clip view....They don't have to be looped, you can switch off the loop feature to make them single shot over several bars.

    There's also Brian Eno's Oblique Strategies approach (google it).


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    I used Reason years ago before switching to Ableton. Almost always finished tracks in Reason whereas my Ableton tracks folder is just a massive pile of loops, riffs and bass lines.

    I think the session view can be detrimental to someone that is going through issues with finishing tracks. Maybe try avoid it and stick to the arrangement view?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 65 ✭✭micky jammy delahunty


    I used Reason years ago before switching to Ableton. Almost always finished tracks in Reason whereas my Ableton tracks folder is just a massive pile of loops, riffs and bass lines.

    I think the session view can be detrimental to someone that is going through issues with finishing tracks. Maybe try avoid it and stick to the arrangement view?

    Maybe set yourself an exercise, with rules, where you sit down to build a full track in arrangement view. And the rules are, you cannot create a new bassline, loop, riff, etc, but must drag them from your bin of loops, etc.

    I've never managed to manage my Ableton archive very well, I wish I had a large bin of elements...

    Performing an exercise with rules, is usually a good way to overcome a block...once you've done the exercise a few times the problem goes away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    I used Reason years ago before switching to Ableton. Almost always finished tracks in Reason whereas my Ableton tracks folder is just a massive pile of loops, riffs and bass lines.

    I think the session view can be detrimental to someone that is going through issues with finishing tracks. Maybe try avoid it and stick to the arrangement view?

    I've found the opposite, I used Reason for years and always found it difficult to finish tracks, I moved to Ableton a couple of years ago and found that I'm finishing more tracks (but still not enough!! :pac:).


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,495 ✭✭✭Will I Am Not


    jiltloop wrote: »
    I've found the opposite, I used Reason for years and always found it difficult to finish tracks, I moved to Ableton a couple of years ago and found that I'm finishing more tracks (but still not enough!! :pac:).

    A lot of people hate it but I have a soft spot for Reason. It made you learn. You want a nice techy square synth sound? You’re going to have to make it from scratch, no plugins here my friend.
    You want to sidechain that bass line? Wire it up yourself :pac:
    As for changing the BPM for samples and loops? Dr REX would give you nightmares.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭jiltloop


    Yeah I absolutely love the wiring feature in reason, it just makes the software feel so tangible and invites experimentation. Much better than trying to figure out routing in any other DAW.

    I just found the sequencer stifled my creativity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭rayzercork


    when i run into that situation i just duplicate the main section and move it down the timeline, start working on the intro then reverse the build order for the outro. once i have every section in place i line it all up then go out blending each section into the other. mixing levels, adding fx and automation is usually left to the end


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  • Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭The Inpatient


    Hello all,

    My take on finishing a track.

    If its going to be included in set by a DJ, the end is going to be chopped off anyway, dont overthink it.

    I personally wrap it up in usually no more than 12 bars removing the beat and basslines first leaving the hi hats etc. et al, then tapered off with the lead only over say 4 bars, possibly then slowing the tempo by automation right down to 20bpm or so or automating the volume out to nothing over three or two bars.

    Sometimes just shutting the door on the lead after say two or four bars of it on it own.

    So make the end somewhat brief and not drawn out is what i advise, the listener has already decided to move on to the next track once it becomes obvious it ending with beat/bassline gone etc. and are not really as pushed as you are how its going to end.


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