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Milk and Dairy

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Comments

  • #122
    Bigbooty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 229 ✭✭Bigbooty


    Jjameson wrote: »
    Not at all. Buy and take manufactured Iodine supplement,vitamin b supplement, zink supplement, calcium supplement. essential fatty acids, Omega 3 can all be done without. And then you can introduce yourself as “I’m a vegan. I may look like I’m dying but I’m ethically superior than every ordinary person in my opinion. Especially those evil insulin using type one diabetics.”

    You can get all of those from plant sources apart from B12 which comes from bacteria in the soil. Animals are more often than not supplemented with B12.

    SNIP


  • #123
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    Bigbooty wrote: »
    You can get all of those from plant sources apart from B12 which comes from bacteria in the soil. Animals are more often than not supplemented with B12.

    Yes and the best way to get them from plants is to process them in a very natural way harmonious with nature is through grazing animal and eat the ffckers. Never supplemented and animal with vitamin b12 in my life?? And diabetics have also found the carnivore diet very effective however most people don’t realistically want
    to cut out a food group so thank god for for insulin and all the life saving and changing pharmaceuticals derived from farmed animals eh.


  • #124
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    Insulin is synthetic for a long time (over 40 years), thanks to GMO. Which also made it cheap to make.

    You can also get B12 from a plant source, water lentils, which was found out recently. High levels of bioactive B12.


  • #125
    65535
    Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭65535


    cutelad wrote: »
    I honestly would find not having meat or dairy illogical. Our bodies require it to stay healthy.


    I find that statement odd to be honest.
    I am healthy, actually I have never been healthier without meat and dairy.
    No stomach problems, no skin problems.
    All I can suggest is to try it because you would see and feel the positive effects yourself.


  • #126
    davidjtaylor
    Registered Users Posts: 755 ✭✭✭davidjtaylor


    cutelad wrote: »
    I honestly would find not having meat or dairy illogical.


    Logic is one of the reasons I follow a vegan lifestyle.

    cutelad wrote: »
    Our bodies require it to stay healthy.


    Not true.


    After nearly 30 years without meat, I'm as fit as I've ever been, fitter in fact in many ways.


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  • #127
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    "The danger of having so many calves in 2020, on top of the existing pressures, means there is an emergency welfare case to be made, although no one wants to talk about it, for killing the calves on a one-off basis at three or four days old,” said a senior figure in Ireland’s state agricultural network. The source spoke to the Guardian on condition of anonymity for fear they might lose their job.
    “We know there is going to be suffering.."

    “Vets are not called to sick pigs [in Ireland],” the source added. “And this is the way we are going with male calves.” Calves and pigs are worth significantly less than the cost of a vet, so it can be cheaper to simply let them die..in their own scour [diarrhoea], which is what is happening now and we know is going to get worse”.

    'It would be kinder to shoot them.'

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/20/it-would-be-kinder-to-shoot-them-irelands-calves-set-for-live-export


  • #128
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    auspicious wrote: »
    "The danger of having so many calves in 2020, on top of the existing pressures, means there is an emergency welfare case to be made, although no one wants to talk about it, for killing the calves on a one-off basis at three or four days old,” said a senior figure in Ireland’s state agricultural network. The source spoke to the Guardian on condition of anonymity for fear they might lose their job.
    “We know there is going to be suffering.."

    “Vets are not called to sick pigs [in Ireland],” the source added. “And this is the way we are going with male calves.” Calves and pigs are worth significantly less than the cost of a vet, so it can be cheaper to simply let them die..in their own scour [diarrhoea], which is what is happening now and we know is going to get worse”.

    'It would be kinder to shoot them.'

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/20/it-would-be-kinder-to-shoot-them-irelands-calves-set-for-live-export

    It's tragic and heartbreaking to see this barbaric industry with its horrible practices so prevalent and accepted as normal in society. Nothing but contempt for the chain of production in the dairy industry including the marketing suits.


  • #129
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    It's tragic and heartbreaking to see this barbaric industry with its horrible practices so prevalent and accepted as normal in society. Nothing but contempt for the chain of production in the dairy industry including the marketing suits.

    Its tragic and bizarre to once again see those who choose a particular lifestyle attempt to use aalleged incidents as a stick to best all and sundry and never shut up with the same old bs.

    Using the anti-farming paid opinion pieces from the Guardian as an 'anonymous' source on accusatory farming practices is little better than expecting the pope to come out in support of contraception and be believable

    Where there are incidents of poor animal welfare - that should be dealt with. Not used as propaganda for the few.


  • #130
    Jjameson
    Registered Users Posts: 2,745 ✭✭✭Jjameson


    gozunda wrote: »
    Its tragic and bizarre to once again see those who choose a particular lifestyle attempt to use aalleged incidents as a stick to best all and sundry and never shut up with the same old bs.

    Using the anti-farming paid opinion pieces from the Guardian as an 'anonymous' source on accusatory farming practices is little better than expecting the pope to come out in support of contraception and be believable

    Where there are incidents of poor animal welfare - that should be dealt with. Not used as propaganda for the few.
    And of course the unnamed “experts”. Narrow minded brainwashed zealots who have zero qualifications or real practical experience but know it all from the internet...


  • #131
    65535
    Registered Users Posts: 780 ✭✭✭65535


    It's very easy to prove for yourself whether a non meat/non dairy diet does work for you or not.
    Approach it with an open mind - you might surprise yourself.

    I have to add, and please correct me if I am wrong, but a lot if not most of the dangerous viruses (virii ?) are from eating animals/exotic animals.

    Maybe they are trying to tell us something !

    Foot and Mouth - Rare in Humans
    BSE/Mad Cow Disease leading to vCJD in Humans
    SARS (Civets / Bats)
    MERS (Bats /Camels)
    Covid-19 Bats/Pangolin
    AIDS - Non Human Primates/Monkeys
    H5N1 - Bird Flu
    H1N1 - Swine Flu


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  • #132
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    gozunda wrote: »
    Its tragic and bizarre to once again see those who choose a particular lifestyle attempt to use aalleged incidents as a stick to best all and sundry and never shut up with the same old bs.

    Using the anti-farming paid opinion pieces from the Guardian as an 'anonymous' source on accusatory farming practices is little better than expecting the pope to come out in support of contraception and be believable

    Where there are incidents of poor animal welfare - that should be dealt with. Not used as propaganda for the few.

    Drinking cow's milk as adult humans is revolting; forcibly impregnating the cow to get her lactating and discarding her calves is pretty heartless. To then claim to care about animal welfare is sociopathic.

    However, there has been some good news reported recently, as a sort of silver lining to the covid19 cloud;

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0330/1127297-cheese-sales-fall/


  • #133
    Tilikum17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Tilikum17


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    Drinking cow's milk as adult humans is revolting; forcibly impregnating the cow to get her lactating and discarding her calves is pretty heartless. To then claim to care about animal welfare is sociopathic.

    However, there has been some good news reported recently, as a sort of silver lining to the covid19 cloud;

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0330/1127297-cheese-sales-fall/

    They can’t sell it in the states so they’re dumping it.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dairy-plants-dump-thousands-of-gallons-of-unused-milk-as-demand-plummets-2020-04-02?mod=home-page


  • #134
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    Drinking cow's milk as adult humans is revolting; forcibly impregnating the cow to get her lactating and discarding her calves is pretty heartless. To then claim to care about animal welfare is sociopathic.

    However, there has been some good news reported recently, as a sort of silver lining to the covid19 cloud;

    https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0330/1127297-cheese-sales-fall/

    Absolutely not. Milk is delicious, nothing better than a cold pint of milk and it's full of nutrients that benefit human health


  • #135
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    No essential nutrients which you can't get from a balanced whole foods plant based diet with minimal impact to planet.
    Oh B12 - yes we have plant sources for that plus everyone over 50yo should be supplementing it.


  • #136
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    Tilikum17 wrote: »
    They can’t sell it in the states so they’re dumping it.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dairy-plants-dump-thousands-of-gallons-of-unused-milk-as-demand-plummets-2020-04-02?mod=home-page

    Yeah but just be clear thats not in ireland


  • #137
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    auspicious wrote: »
    No essential nutrients which you can't get from a balanced whole foods plant based diet with minimal impact to planet.
    Oh B12 - yes we have plant sources for that plus everyone over 50yo should be supplementing it.

    A human diet is not balanced if it's limits basic food groups such as excluding dairy


  • #138
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    McCrack wrote: »
    A human diet is not balanced if it's limits basic food groups such as excluding dairy

    Erm...no. No animal requires the milk of another. It's just weird that we do it. Babies only require human colostrum. And only up until a certain age.
    Are you a big baby?


  • #139
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    auspicious wrote: »
    Erm...no. No animal requires the milk of another. It's just weird that we do it. Babies only require human colostrum. And only up until a certain age.
    Are you a big baby?

    Erm.... no. Colostrum is what a mother gives for the first few days after the baby is born then it changes to milk i think


  • #140
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    Colostrum us the first form. After initial period what is produced is a mix of milk and colostrum.
    Then mature. No animal has evolved to drink another's milk. We just steal it with cruel consequences for the animals.


  • #141
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    auspicious wrote: »
    Colostrum us the first form. After initial period what is produced is a mix of milk and colostrum.
    Then mature. No animal has evolved to drink another's milk. We just steal it with cruel consequences for the animals.

    I think its A1A1 protien we humans are able to process which allows to drink milk from cows and other animals. So i guess we did evolve it. We are also born with teeth that can cut through meat along with that our stomachs and guts can process said meat. What we did lose along the way was an apendix which was for processing grasses and other tough veg. Erm... no. Its milk or clostrum they might mix while it changes to milk. Now if you want to debate moral reasons not to eat drink or use products from other animals on this planet great, I am not going to stop you but to say we didn't evolve ways to eat meat or drink milk is just stupid


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  • #142
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    I'll put it this way. There is no evolutionary necessity for us to drink cows milk at this stage in our contemporary society.
    It's gross and many people are learning just how undignified it really is.


  • #143
    Tilikum17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Tilikum17


    Gary kk wrote: »
    Yeah but just be clear thats not in ireland

    Where did I say it was?


  • #144
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    auspicious wrote: »
    I'll put it this way. There is no evolutionary necessity for us to drink cows milk at this stage in our contemporary society.
    It's gross and many people are learning just how undignified it really is.
    Yeah thats fine i respect your choice


  • #145
    Gary kk
    Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    Tilikum17 wrote: »
    Where did I say it was?

    Ah you kniw yourself some people would not open the link to read and asume it was about Irish farmers


  • #146
    Tar.Aldarion
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,082 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tar.Aldarion


    This has always been a problem, exporting to countries with lower standards than our own https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/20/it-would-be-kinder-to-shoot-them-irelands-calves-set-for-live-export
    France is probably not the worst country to be fair, I'd worry about exporting to some other countries.


  • #147
    Tilikum17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Tilikum17


    Gary kk wrote: »
    Ah you kniw yourself some people would not open the link to read and asume it was about Irish farmers

    It’s going to happen here too. Don’t cod yourself.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/business/farming/dairy/dairy-farmers-face-dumping-milk-as-processors-sweat-over-a-shut-down-39080341.html


  • #148
    McCrack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭McCrack


    auspicious wrote: »
    I'll put it this way. There is no evolutionary necessity for us to drink cows milk at this stage in our contemporary society.
    It's gross and many people are learning just how undignified it really is.

    It's nutritionally beneficial though and it's certainly not "gross" and to call it such displays some immaturity


  • #149
    Tilikum17
    Registered Users Posts: 1,316 ✭✭✭Tilikum17


    Tar.Aldarion wrote: »
    This has always been a problem, exporting to countries with lower standards than our own https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jan/20/it-would-be-kinder-to-shoot-them-irelands-calves-set-for-live-export
    France is probably not the worst country to be fair, I'd worry about exporting to some other countries.

    But but but It’s the guardian!!

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/02/secret-footage-shows-calves-from-ireland-beaten-and-kicked-in-france


  • #150
    auspicious
    Registered Users Posts: 4,497 ✭✭✭auspicious


    McCrack wrote: »
    It's nutritionally beneficial though and it's certainly not "gross" and to call it such displays some immaturity

    Hardly. I think you're looking through the narrow side of the lens.
    The product appeals to me no longer as I have a full understanding of the 'production line'. It's gross because the mothers and calves experience great distress and suffer so we can enjoy some nutrients in a glass.


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  • #151
    cutelad
    Registered Users Posts: 72 ✭✭cutelad


    I personally buying all local now. My kids thankfully have decided to put aside this no dairy lark and join the real world


This discussion has been closed.
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