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Selecting a formula product

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    #32
    Cakerbaker
    Registered Users Posts: 850 ✭✭✭Cakerbaker


    Regardless of whether someone wants to breast feed or formula feed, saying Fed is best implies not being fed is the alternative. Being fed is a necessity, not what’s best. That’s why it’s a stupid saying.


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    #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It’s not really, it means once the baby is eating well and thriving that’s what matters for both mother and baby. A mother half killing herself trying to breastfeed and child not getting adequate nutrition as not getting enough milk etc would be a possible scenario where the child is not being fed enough it doesn’t mean throwing the child in a cot and ignoring it when it needs feeding.


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    #34
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Nehemiah Obedient Coffeepot wrote: »
    It’s not really, it means once the baby is eating well and thriving that’s what matters for both mother and baby. A mother half killing herself trying to breastfeed and child not getting adequate nutrition as not getting enough milk etc would be a possible scenario where the child is not being fed enough it doesn’t mean throwing the child in a cot and ignoring it when it needs feeding.
    Rubbish.
    Of course if you're using nazis as a term when discussing infant feeding it's a sign you're probably not someone to take seriously.


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    #35
    Moonbeam
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,952 Mod ✭✭✭✭Moonbeam


    Moderator request:
    Please stop using the term "nazi" in relation to breastfeeding


  • Options
    #36
    Milly33
    Registered Users Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Milly33


    Why does his topic always end badly!!! Just smile everyone


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    #37
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    If fed is best I’ll eat McDonald’s for breakfast every day and wash it down with coke. Yum yum.
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Oh wait. There’s a better option.
    There’s a human milk bank in Ireland, and very premature or very sick babies get milk from it rather than getting formula. Why? Because it’s more appropriate biologically than synthetic milk. It’s made by humans for humans. It’s better.

    I personally don’t care what anyone else feeds their baby. Actually couldn’t give a s**t. Makes no difference to me. I have never in my life pushed breastfeeding with anyone. But it boils my blood when I’m compared to a genocidal maniac, because I choose the absolute best nutrition for my kids.

    In the society we live in, most people, including health professionals, in my experience push formula as an answer to the problems of a breastfed baby. Not sleeping... give formula. Not gaining enough weight..... give formula. Mother is tired.... give formula. Might suit some people, might not suit others, but the advice is perfectly acceptable it seems. I’ve never heard of a formula Nazi.
    It seems to never be socially acceptable to push breast milk over formula, coz that makes someone pushy and weird (I won’t use the N word), rather than just honest.


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    #38
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Honestly my experience is literally the opposite of you with two pregnancies in the last five years. No one feels it’s socially acceptable to push breast feeding? Everyone is pushing breast feeding. From medical professionals to families to people on the street!


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    #39
    bee06
    Registered Users Posts: 4,514 ✭✭✭bee06


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Honestly my experience is literally the opposite of you with two pregnancies in the last five years. No one feels it’s socially acceptable to push breast feeding? Everyone is pushing breast feeding. From medical professionals to families to people on the street!

    Milly hit the nail on the head when she said everyone is pushing breastfeeding when your pregnant but after you have the baby and you actually want to breastfeed but have problems then formula is usually thrown out as the solution.

    Personally, I think fed is best and breast is best are a load of crap. Informed and supported is what’s really best. If someone makes an informed decision about what’s best for their baby then great but if someone makes a decision because they are told formula is the same as breastmilk or they want to breastfeed but are in agony because of tongue tie and are told “your nipples just need to toughen up, nothing’s wrong” then that’s a disgrace and a failing of the support system that should be in place for new mothers.


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    #40
    kylith
    Registered Users Posts: 17,736 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    jlm29 wrote: »
    If fed is best I’ll eat McDonald’s for breakfast every day and wash it down with coke. Yum yum.
    .

    Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.


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    #41
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    kylith wrote: »
    Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

    I’m not saying that formula is equivalent to McDonald’s. I’m just making the point that adult or child, not all food is created equal. Fed is not best for any of us, it’s just the basic minimum.


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    #42
    annoyedgal
    Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭annoyedgal


    The difference between breastmilk and formula is far greater than formula companies would have you believe.
    Breastmilk contains antibodies which are tailored to the individual baby and changes as they need it. If baby is sick, breastmilk changes to speed up recovery. Formula cannot do this.
    I try to avoid the breastmilk and formula debate as to each their own but to say that they are comparable or almost comparable in terms of benefit to baby is just not true.



    quote="kylith;111304543"]Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.[/quote]


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    #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    kylith wrote: »
    Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

    Exactly this. For all intends and purposes there is very little difference between the two and you will have a happy and healthy baby who is fed formula.

    As a family member remarked to me when at an anti-natal class on the topic of breast and bottle feeding. The person giving the class said hands up who was breast fed as a child and out of the 12 or so people in the room not one hand went up, “and was it ever an issue or are ye not all happy and healthy adults” she said next. Basically it was saying not to be made feel you are not doing the right thing for you baby just because you choose or are forced to bottle feed.


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    #44
    Milly33
    Registered Users Posts: 8,638 ✭✭✭Milly33


    annoyedgal wrote: »
    The difference between breastmilk and formula is far greater than formula companies would have you believe.
    Breastmilk contains antibodies which are tailored to the individual baby and changes as they need it. If baby is sick, breastmilk changes to speed up recovery. Formula cannot do this.
    I try to avoid the breastmilk and formula debate as to each their own but to say that they are comparable or almost comparable in terms of benefit to baby is just not true.



    quote="kylith;111304543"]Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.
    [/QUOTE]


    Id be the same with the breastfeeding it seems to be like telling someone how to raise their child, the min there is a difference of opinion it is like a Star Wars episode or something...

    :) Just thinking of the antibodies and that though, my sis breastfeed her two boys and i mean they got a lot of milk, she had a never ending supply of it.. And the two of them could not have got anything else.. They always got colds, and stuffiness and well everything really you could get they would have.. So sure tis all about what the one person wants to do and feel good about doing it no matter...


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    #45
    annoyedgal
    Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭annoyedgal


    Sorry Milly but that is like the argument that my uncle smoked 20 a day and lived to be 90! Its medically proven that breastmilk boosts immunity. There are exceptions to every rule.
    I'll bow out now as people will believe what they want to believe. I have no issue at all with formula but i take issue to the misinformation around it.
    Milly33 wrote: »


    Id be the same with the breastfeeding it seems to be like telling someone how to raise their child, the min there is a difference of opinion it is like a Star Wars episode or something...

    :) Just thinking of the antibodies and that though, my sis breastfeed her two boys and i mean they got a lot of milk, she had a never ending supply of it.. And the two of them could not have got anything else.. They always got colds, and stuffiness and well everything really you could get they would have.. So sure tis all about what the one person wants to do and feel good about doing it no matter...[/quote]


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    #46
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Nehemiah Obedient Coffeepot wrote: »
    kylith wrote: »
    Formula is not equivalent to McDonalds. The difference between formula and breast milk is much, much smaller than some people would have you believe.

    Exactly this. For all intends and purposes there is very little difference between the two and you will have a happy and healthy baby who is fed formula.

    As a family member remarked to me when at an anti-natal class on the topic of breast and bottle feeding. The person giving the class said hands up who was breast fed as a child and out of the 12 or so people in the room not one hand went up, “and was it ever an issue or are ye not all happy and healthy adults” she said next. Basically it was saying not to be made feel you are not doing the right thing for you baby just because you choose or are forced to bottle feed.
    This is absolutely shocking carry on for a medical professional. There's no way she should be using this type of purely anecdotal evidence to imply formula and breastfeeding are the same. I fed my first formula in combination with mainly breastfeeding and I was fully aware the formula was an inferior way to feed her. Facts don't care about your feelings. The fact is we have abysmal rates of breastfeeding in Ireland for myriad reasons, one of which is the pooly informed health care practitioners like this who don't have a clue about normal infant nutrition.


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    #47
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    lazygal wrote: »
    This is absolutely shocking carry on for a medical professional. There's no way she should be using this type of purely anecdotal evidence to imply formula and breastfeeding are the same. I fed my first formula in combination with mainly breastfeeding and I was fully aware the formula was an inferior way to feed her. Facts don't care about your feelings. The fact is we have abysmal rates of breastfeeding in Ireland for myriad reasons, one of which is the pooly informed health care practitioners like this who don't have a clue about normal infant nutrition.

    No one should be made feel inferior if the bottle feed their baby . There are health reasons why some can’t breastfeed and the words “ inferior way to feed a baby “ is unnecessary and hurtful


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    #48
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    lazygal wrote: »
    This is absolutely shocking carry on for a medical professional. There's no way she should be using this type of purely anecdotal evidence to imply formula and breastfeeding are the same. I fed my first formula in combination with mainly breastfeeding and I was fully aware the formula was an inferior way to feed her. Facts don't care about your feelings. The fact is we have abysmal rates of breastfeeding in Ireland for myriad reasons, one of which is the pooly informed health care practitioners like this who don't have a clue about normal infant nutrition.

    No one should be made feel inferior if the bottle feed their baby . There are health reasons why some can’t breastfeed and the words “ inferior way to feed a baby “ is unnecessary and hurtful
    There is no way any health care practitioner should state formula and breastfeeding are equal. That's simply untrue and goes against WHO guidelines no matter how much anyone's feelings get hurt.


  • Options
    #49
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    lazygal wrote: »
    There is no way any health care practitioner should state formula and breastfeeding are equal. That's simply untrue and goes against WHO guidelines no matter how much anyone's feelings get hurt.

    Read what the poster wrote . That is not what she said . She said no one should have to feel they are not doing the right thing
    My daughter didn’t breasfeed for medical reasons and she did the right thing for her own personal case
    She didn’t need anyone telling her that what she fed her baby was inferior


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    #50
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    It is inferior. I used it myself. That's a fact. Medical issues exist. That's also a fact. But any health care practitioner stating formula is the same is breastfeeding are wrong. One is the biological norm and the other isn't.


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    #51
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    lazygal wrote: »
    It is inferior. I used it myself. That's a fact. Medical issues exist. That's also a fact. But any health care practitioner stating formula is the same is breastfeeding are wrong. One is the biological norm and the other isn't.

    Just be grateful you don’t have a medical condition making it necessary to use formula . People don’t need be made feel inferior . Its not nice


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    #52
    XMG
    Registered Users Posts: 83 ✭✭XMG


    If you’re going to be using formula that needs hot water get a hot water dispenser so you don’t have to boil the kettle every time for a feed. We had a 3 or 4 liter one that would boil first and then it could keep water at 3 or 4 different temperatures, one of which was the *perfect* temperature so no cooling involved. It would reboil every so often. The water did get changed every 24 hours or so regardless of how much had been used, I forget now why?

    You’ll be glad of it at half three of a morning :)


  • Options
    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    lazygal wrote: »
    It is inferior. I used it myself. That's a fact. Medical issues exist. That's also a fact. But any health care practitioner stating formula is the same is breastfeeding are wrong. One is the biological norm and the other isn't.

    It’s people acting like you that they were being told to ignore. It puts totally unnecessary pressure on people who can’t or choose not to breastfeed and just not wanting to is a valid reason. It makes people feel inadequate and cause or worsens depression. Breastfeeding is better, that is not being denied but the fact is a baby has just as much chance of being healthy and happy on formula and it may mean a happier, healthier and less stressed mother who is much better able to cope.

    I was not there so I can’t tell you the exact atmosphere in the room but from what I was told the advice was to breastfeed if it works for you but not to make yourself miserable doing it and don’t be listening to people telling you formula is akin to nuclear waste.
    XMG wrote: »
    If you’re going to be using formula that needs hot water get a hot water dispenser so you don’t have to boil the kettle every time for a feed. We had a 3 or 4 liter one that would boil first and then it could keep water at 3 or 4 different temperatures, one of which was the *perfect* temperature so no cooling involved. It would reboil every so often. The water did get changed every 24 hours or so regardless of how much had been used, I forget now why?

    You’ll be glad of it at half three of a morning :)

    One kettle boil and make bottles for 24h at a time, keep in the fridge and reheat when needed is the way to do it. Keeping water heated like that is advise against strongly.


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    #54
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,250 ✭✭✭✭fits


    iamwhoiam wrote: »

    Just be grateful you don’t have a medical condition making it necessary to use formula . People don’t need be made feel inferior . Its not nice


    It’s not about making people feel inferior. It just is. In the same way toast is inferior to porridge and biscuits inferior to apples. You may have reasons and very good ones for feeding formula but there is a reason it’s not given to preemies. It’s just not the best food for babies. A lot of women can’t breastfeed - probably more than are acknowledged have low milk supply. But a lot choose not to for cultural or other reasons and both mother and baby miss out. I found it hugely beneficial to me and am sorry more don’t get to experience that. My twins are very healthy as well and one has a condition associated with recurrent ear infections and he doesn’t get them.


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    #55
    Obvious Desperate Breakfasts
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,474 ✭✭✭Obvious Desperate Breakfasts


    Nehemiah Obedient Coffeepot wrote: »
    Exactly this. For all intends and purposes there is very little difference between the two and you will have a happy and healthy baby who is fed formula.

    As a family member remarked to me when at an anti-natal class on the topic of breast and bottle feeding. The person giving the class said hands up who was breast fed as a child and out of the 12 or so people in the room not one hand went up, “and was it ever an issue or are ye not all happy and healthy adults” she said next. Basically it was saying not to be made feel you are not doing the right thing for you baby just because you choose or are forced to bottle feed.

    Well, people are hardly going to disclose their medical history to a group full of strangers or acquaintances, are they? What a stupid thing for the person running the class to ask.

    Some people might not know if they were breastfed also. I’m in mid-30s and only asked my mother a few years whether she breastfed. She did. But I had no clue before that whether she did or not.


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    #56
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,072 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    fits wrote: »
    It’s not about making people feel inferior. It just is. In the same way toast is inferior to porridge and biscuits inferior to apples. You may have reasons and very good ones for feeding formula but there is a reason it’s not given to preemies. It’s just not the best food for babies. A lot of women can’t breastfeed - probably more than are acknowledged have low milk supply. But a lot choose not to for cultural or other reasons and both mother and baby miss out. I found it hugely beneficial to me and am sorry more don’t get to experience that. My twins are very healthy as well and one has a condition associated with recurrent ear infections and he doesn’t get them.

    The OP was asking about formulas for a baby who for medical reasons cannot be breastfed . Is it helpful to the OP or to others reading this thread for anyone to use the word “ inferior “ about formula ?
    The OPs wife and others reading this who cannot breastfeed for various reasons don’t need this rubbed into their faces . They are thankful for help choosing a formula or the advice given to wait and see what suits the baby when born
    The last thing they need is to repeatedly read about “ the inferior “ formula
    For them its not inferior as they have no alternative at this time .
    For example my daughter couldn’t breastfeed for medical reason so feeding her baby formula was not “ inferior “ to anything as it her only choice . It was the best choice for her baby available to her


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    #57
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,250 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Ok but to be fair this thread was started two years ago so it’s not really about OP anymore.


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    #58
    honerbright
    Registered Users Posts: 1,228 ✭✭✭honerbright


    fits wrote: »
    You may have reasons and very good ones for feeding formula but there is a reason it’s not given to preemies

    As someone who just spent 90 days with my child inside the NICU I can assure you that I seen many, many babies receive formula. There is formula specifically designed for preemies. Yes there is a milk bank, but you can only rely on that so long. Many mothers are unable to produce due to prematurity, stress, biology etc and their babies still thrived on formula.

    My son could not breastfeed, but I was lucky enough to be able to exclusively pump to provide for him, but not every person has that ability. In cases of preemies the mothers often feel like they failed their child by then coming so early and it's horrific that they get so shamed by people that they sometimes are unable to produce milk too - just another thing to feel bad about.


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    #59
    fits
    Registered Users Posts: 13,250 ✭✭✭✭fits


    I gave formula in the hospital and I don’t feel one bit bad about it. You do what you have to. Formula is an amazing resource to have where it’s needed.

    NICU must be an incredibly tough experience. I didn’t produce while pumping in hospital either.


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    #60
    s7ryf3925pivug
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,007 ✭✭✭s7ryf3925pivug


    The answer is SMA Advanced because it has the 2hmo in it that has immunity benefits. It also doesn't need you to boil water to make it (at least stage 2 and 3 don't).

    Outside of that the major differentitator between products is the fluoride levels, which were tested as being very excessive in a number of products, especially the premade products.

    Don't use stage 1 formula after 6 months because it doesn't have enough iron in it.

    Thanks for the input. Going to unfollow this thread now.


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    #61
    maxsmum
    Registered Users Posts: 521 ✭✭✭maxsmum


    Boston Colossal Spleen wrote: »
    Don't use stage 1 formula after 6 months because it doesn't have enough iron in it.

    Hi, this is untrue, number 1 formula is best option to give (of the formulas) until 1 year old.
    https://www2.hse.ie/wellbeing/child-health/types-of-formula-milk.html

    Also, the old breast v formula war always gets peoples hackles up. Even though I think the tone of some of the posters is a bit supercilious, yes, of course infants are supposed to receive breastmilk. It is undoubtedly superior to formula. but formula has the basic 'formula' of nutrients that will keep baby alive and thriving.
    There is a scientific paper out there that basically equates all the formulas nutritionally, no matter what the cost or organic or extra fancy ingredients etc.

    I think the difference is that mums aren't inferior mums for choosing a different way to feed their babies.


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