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06-01-2020, 19:25   #16
Davys Fits
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How can you stop players and teams trying to be better!

Make inter county players go on the drink every second weekend? Very strange argument.
Agreed, its make no sense in any sport.

However it might seem obvious but a focus on skill rather than athleticism might change all that. I have always thought that overuse of the hand-pass in Gaelic football make it more a tactical, fitness based sport than a skill based one. There is no doubt that passing a ball in soccer requires more skill than a hand pass in gaa and the pass is the most used skill in any game. However a kick pass is not so simple but we dont see enough of it. A re refocus on skills might make the game more attractive for us and less attractive for the poachers.
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06-01-2020, 19:29   #17
Hawkeye9212
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Agreed, its make no sense in any sport.

However it might seem obvious but a focus on skill rather than athleticism might change all that. I have always thought that overuse of the hand-pass in Gaelic football make it more a tactical, fitness based sport than a skill based one. There is no doubt that passing a ball in soccer requires more skill than a hand pass in gaa and the pass is the most used skill in any game. However a kick pass is not so simple but we dont see enough of it. A re refocus on skills might make the game more attractive for us and less attractive for the poachers.
Focusing on one over the other seems like a mistake to me. Strong, athletic players are key in a game like football. The lack of skill is a separate issue and a symptom of safety first mentality.
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06-01-2020, 23:13   #18
Bonniedog
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Originally Posted by Davys Fits View Post
Agreed, its make no sense in any sport.

However it might seem obvious but a focus on skill rather than athleticism might change all that. I have always thought that overuse of the hand-pass in Gaelic football make it more a tactical, fitness based sport than a skill based one. There is no doubt that passing a ball in soccer requires more skill than a hand pass in gaa and the pass is the most used skill in any game. However a kick pass is not so simple but we dont see enough of it. A re refocus on skills might make the game more attractive for us and less attractive for the poachers.

Hand passing is not great to watch when it is case of teams running down the clock but similar tactics exist in all team sports. It is a necessity against negative defence. Teams like Corofin and Dublin combine both and employ the kick very effectively, but they are not going to be naïve enough to kick into a massed defence. Corofin's use of kick pass against Nemo was brilliant. Love watching them.
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09-01-2020, 15:08   #19
patsman07
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The recent speculation of Cathal McShane going to Aussie rules has reminded me of a conversation I had a while back about the rising standards in the GAA.

My theory is that the obviously higher standards we’ve seen in the last 20 years in the GAA is not necessarily a good thing for the organization.

On one hand the supreme standard Dublin has attained is admirable and great to watch, but is having a team reach that high actually a good thing? I don’t think the GAA should be about training 200 times a year, or having to do 5-6 sessions a week, because it means you have to sacrifice too much to get there in your career, personal life and club life. Once that happens there is an inevitable move towards professionalism, and also a widening gap in standards which reduces competition and eventually interest. The Leinster championship is an irrelevance today, for instance.

To me, a successful GAA is having hundreds of thousands of active players every week and reasonable crowds at games, it’s not about whether your marquee forward can run as fast as Ronaldo or lift as much as Johnny Sexton. The move towards more and more County games and time with that squad will eventually piss off the volunteers at the clubs who give so much for free when they see their best players are no longer involved any more. This is true even down to u16s.

The other downside is that it makes players more poachable from other sports and you’ve have important players missing.

I think the solution should be less county and a shorter season, less GPA, no back door. Curious to hear thoughts on it.

Couldn't agree more.

The introduction of the back door has led, imo, to the levels of professionalism we see from the big counties today. If your a Dublin/Kerry player you are now practically guaranteed a place in the All Ireland Semi finals in front of full Croke Park, so why wouldn't you agree to training 5/6 times a week. A player from a weaker county is guaranteed not to get there so why would you bother?

The old system (straight knock-out) guaranteed the importance of the Provincial championship and because every team could be finished after just one match, 5/6 training sessions a week would be&were unacceptable.

Sam Maguire has become like the Premier League, only a few big teams have a chance of winning, it used to be the FA Cup. Unfortunately we'll never get back what we had as the organisation becomes reliant on the Sky money that the Super 8s generates. It's a disaster for the smaller football counties.
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09-01-2020, 15:20   #20
Bonniedog
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Couldn't agree more.

The introduction of the back door has led, imo, to the levels of professionalism we see from the big counties today. If your a Dublin/Kerry player you are now practically guaranteed a place in the All Ireland Semi finals in front of full Croke Park, so why wouldn't you agree to training 5/6 times a week. A player from a weaker county is guaranteed not to get there so why would you bother?

The old system (straight knock-out) guaranteed the importance of the Provincial championship and because every team could be finished after just one match, 5/6 training sessions a week would be&were unacceptable.

Sam Maguire has become like the Premier League, only a few big teams have a chance of winning, it used to be the FA Cup. Unfortunately we'll never get back what we had as the organisation becomes reliant on the Sky money that the Super 8s generates. It's a disaster for the smaller football counties.

I don't mean to be derogatory but the same counties who are contenders now in both sports are same counties who have been contenders by and large since foundation.

Tradition is much over used word but it does mean something. Not some mystical thing but fact that Dublin. Tipp, Kerry. Kilkenny. Cork, Galway have high standards and people who know what it requires to win.

Some counties have neither that nor the desire.
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09-01-2020, 16:27   #21
patsman07
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I don't mean to be derogatory but the same counties who are contenders now in both sports are same counties who have been contenders by and large since foundation.

Tradition is much over used word but it does mean something. Not some mystical thing but fact that Dublin. Tipp, Kerry. Kilkenny. Cork, Galway have high standards and people who know what it requires to win.

Some counties have neither that nor the desire.

They have been contenders by virtue of their playing population.
Since the stronger counties are going to have a second chance through the back door, it is worth their while to invest the time, money and effort we are currently seeing. The back door has encouraged more professional set ups. Increased professionalism leads to less upsets, since less is left to chance. This is resulting in even further disparity between the traditionally strong counties and the rest.



Below I've listed the number of different provincial winners and who won the most provincial championships in the 18 years since the back door was introduced and in the 18 years before it was introduced.

Since back door 2001: Prior to back door 1983-2000.

Leinster: 4 winners, 14 by Dublin. 4 winners, 8 by Dublin

Ulster: 4 winners, 7 by Tyrone. 6 winners, 5 by Tyrone.

Connacht: 4 winners, 8 by Mayo. 4 winners, 8 by Mayo.

Munster: 2 winners, 13 by Kerry. 3 winners, 9 by Cork.

The problem is only going to get worse with the Super 8's.
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09-01-2020, 16:37   #22
Bonniedog
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It is by and large same counties now who were foundational and refused to disband after Church and Brits tried to destroy us after Parnell.

Don't claim to have explanation but it is hardly coincidental. Same counties were leading counties in war against Tans. Others have no history really in either.
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09-01-2020, 19:44   #23
Duffy the Vampire Slayer
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It is by and large same counties now who were foundational and refused to disband after Church and Brits tried to destroy us after Parnell.

Don't claim to have explanation but it is hardly coincidental. Same counties were leading counties in war against Tans. Others have no history really in either.
Wouldn't do much to explain Galway's success.
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09-01-2020, 20:43   #24
Bonniedog
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Ha! Exception that proves the rule...
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14-01-2020, 15:17   #25
Goodluck2me
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Couldn't agree more.

The introduction of the back door has led, imo, to the levels of professionalism we see from the big counties today. If your a Dublin/Kerry player you are now practically guaranteed a place in the All Ireland Semi finals in front of full Croke Park, so why wouldn't you agree to training 5/6 times a week. A player from a weaker county is guaranteed not to get there so why would you bother?

The old system (straight knock-out) guaranteed the importance of the Provincial championship and because every team could be finished after just one match, 5/6 training sessions a week would be&were unacceptable.

Sam Maguire has become like the Premier League, only a few big teams have a chance of winning, it used to be the FA Cup. Unfortunately we'll never get back what we had as the organisation becomes reliant on the Sky money that the Super 8s generates. It's a disaster for the smaller football counties.
That sums it up nicely. A year or two without upsets, leads to years of disbelief and eventually giving up.
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17-01-2020, 17:18   #26
LoughNeagh2017
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Do you not remember the time when 2 NFL games was played in November?
Many people wouldn't remember that, I am 27 and my first county game was in 1999-2000 which was the second last year of that.
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