Lesbian transgender couple declares their plan to transition their 5-year-old son

How Soon Is Now · 13-02-2019 1:41pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Define "normal" as you keep mentioning it. Perhaps your version of normal is back in the 1950's?

Anyone has the right to dress the way they want walking down the street without any harassment or violence from haters who are intolerant of anyone who is different. The problem is with the people who perpetrate the violence, not the victim of it. The article was published from an ultra conservative American website who are not fond of the lgbt community.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/normal

There ya go!

Gravelly · 13-02-2019 1:42pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Define "normal" as you keep mentioning it. Perhaps your version of normal is back in the 1950's?

Anyone has the right to dress the way they want walking down the street without any harassment or violence from haters who are intolerant of anyone who is different. The problem is with the people who perpetrate the violence, not the victim of it. The article was published from an ultra conservative American website who are not fond of the lgbt community.

In a perfect world, which ours is not. If I dressed as 1950's chimney sweep and walked through town, I'd get hassled by assholes - does that mean there is a problem with public attitudes towards 1950's chimney sweeps? No, it means that, in the real world, if you stand out in any way, someone is likely to target you.

I travel extensively for work, sometimes in countries with high levels of street violence, especially towards foreigners. I, like most sensible people who travel to these places, have learned to be a "grey man" - dressing, walking, and acting like a local, and doing nothing unnecessary to draw attention to myself.

A lot of groups these days think that if they sashay down the street in full carnival gear, and some asshole makes a remark to them, it's a sure sign of an ism or phobia in society. Usually it isn't - it's a combination of assholes who will stick in anyone who stands out, and the people themselves not having the sense to be street smart.

Muckka · 13-02-2019 1:43pm

klaaaz wrote: »

You saw it so don't know why keep asking? Being transgender is not a mental illness or not "normal", it is an expression of hate saying it is.

I seen nothing of note but if that's your definition of hate I think you're going to have to look up hatred in the Oxford dictionary.

If I say it's abnormal for a bull to prefer to knock down a wall to get in and sire a field of bullocks rather than be content with the field of cow's he's put in with.

Does that mean I hate bulls, of course it doesn't.

I know I'm using that as a metaphor, but I seen it happen once and it was hilarious to watch.

The poor bullocks were petrified, all huddled in the corner afraid of the confused bull.

They called him Adonis

13-02-2019 1:43pm

mickuhaha wrote: »

My child wants to be a robot should I transition them now or wait? Do I help them go the whole way or is cyborg where you stop? Any cyborgs on here? I still don't even know if they want to be Autobot or decepticon . I have tried switching their diet to 230v at 13a which I feed directly to the processor. It seems to affect the ring ratios but I am slowly adjusting. What do I do. Btw I am open to being interviewed on any national media outlets at a cost.

DC for christs sake, you cant feed AC into a processor, I think you should go for Decepticon, Im thinking I will have to persuade my son that radiation will not turn him into spiderman and that its probably best avoided.

I was a bit confused about who was who.
I I feel its wrong for them to allow this, they say they didnt encourage it but its obvious that the child will be surrounded by and influenced by their views.
I think its wrong, I would not abuse them in the street or criticise them, but I would jsut not have anything to do with them though.
I can honestly say if I lived near them I would not want my son to be friends with someone thats influenced by their parents choices were I dissagree with that so significantly. Not because I think they might persuade him to change his sexuality but because I dont I agree with their views and I want my son to make his own choices when he is older, I dont think he needs to be exposed to that kind of thing, children need to be let be children and I dont think thats happening here, despite what they say.

manonboard · 13-02-2019 1:44pm

pickarooney wrote: »

What are the guidelines regarding supporting transgenderism and fighting gender stereotypes where those conflict?

I have no idea.
I think the best people can do is to support people who want to fall into a gender role, and support people who don't. I doubt there will ever be stability in most social dynamics, but a constant shifting that makes us all feel somewhat uncomfortable since we dislike change so much...and yet oddly hate stagnation/boredom.

seamus · 13-02-2019 1:50pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

If you're willing to wade through the trans-hate and the well-meaning but delusional nonsense online, you'll find a few genuine concerns that aren't getting much time and this is one of them.

It sounds even worse if you change the sexes around. Imagine encouraging a girl who likes playing with a toy digger and wearing trousers to become a boy since girls couldn't possibly like anything engineering-related? It sounds nuts.

Like I said, I've seen this point made before but it's drowned out by soundbites and the general quality of debate on social media.

To be fair though, even reading between the lines of a conservative site rehashing a conservative tabloid, it doesn't sound like this couple are talking about transitioning just because (s)he likes to wear dresses. It sounds like he has made stronger declarations about it, hence why they're moving forward with it.

Is it likely that the child has become aware of this concept of transitioning and thought it a good way to emulate a parent? Absolutely.

Is that an issue? I don't think so. Aside from "allowing" the child to wear non-conforming clothing and be addressed by different names or pronouns, at that age, that's the extent of transitioning.

The taking of blockers and other hormones won't happen until much later on and not until after considerable amounts of assessment and discussion. If the child still feels like they want to transition at that point, fine.

If they've changed their mind, then no harm has been done. "Hey Michael, do you remember when you were a kid you had us call you Barbara for a few years and you wore dresses?". "Yeah, that was a bit mad. Kids are stupid af".

Sonics2k · 13-02-2019 1:58pm

Anyone here who knows my post history knows I'm extremely liberal. I'm the son of a lesbian couple and doing quite well in life.

I am 100% in support of trans rights. I have no issues or moral questions about it. An individual can do as they wish and I will refer to them with their chosen pronoun, largely because I don't give a crap who they are.

But, even I will have an issue with the idea of a 5 year old consenting to this. My own son when he was 5 would frequently run around in one of his mum's dresses and it was a good laugh, at the age of 9 now he'd not even slightly consider it. A child can change rapidly at this age and making a life-long choice like this is just madness, regardless of political affiliation.

So long as nothing medical is performed, then who cares? The child may choose to keep dressing this way, or simply go back to not wearing dresses.

Mike9832 wrote: »

Hate this bull****

Nature never intended for lesbians or gays to have kids

Deal with it

Get a pet or something

I thought you lot died out a while ago. I'd quite happily say I'm more of a man than you can dream of being.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 13-02-2019 2:00pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Define "normal" as you keep mentioning it. Perhaps your version of normal is back in the 1950's?

Anyone has the right to dress the way they want walking down the street without any harassment or violence from haters who are intolerant of anyone who is different. The problem is with the people who perpetrate the violence, not the victim of it.

This has nothing to do with kids transitioning or not. That’s the issue. Not adults walking down the streets.

mcmoustache · 13-02-2019 2:00pm

pickarooney wrote: »

What are the guidelines regarding supporting transgenderism and fighting gender stereotypes where those conflict?

This depends on who you ask and a consensus seems quite far away. I feel it should be perfectly acceptable for a girl to be a tomboy or for a boy to like dolls without them being taught that there is something wrong with them that needs fixing.

A similar point could be made about boys who prefer boys and girls who prefer girls but that issue doesn't really pop up until a bit later in a child's life.

Gimme A Pound · 13-02-2019 2:01pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I have to hope this is daily mail stirring up nonsense again, though the quotes in the article don't seem to support that.

I think aside from the rest of the issues, it's really disappointing that they seem to want to enforce gender roles. Like a boy can't just wear a dress, that must mean it's a girl, because boys can't wear dresses
It seems so recessive

Very good point. The irony. Left eating itself again.

klaaaz · 13-02-2019 2:15pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/normal

There ya go!

Oh, you're backtracking now as you cannot define what's normal despite your ignorance.

You said

How Soon Is Now wrote:

there basically on the same level as any other person with a mental illness

Perhaps you want transgender people immediately put in a mental hospital?

scamalert · 13-02-2019 2:20pm

ive seen enough is it possible for mods to ban me out from AH that i wouldnt have read or see this $hite anymore, people who think its normal should get lobotomy :cool:

7aubzxk43m2sni · 13-02-2019 2:23pm

klaaaz wrote: »

It is not a mental illness no matter how many times you try to state it. The HSE do not treat as being transgender as a mental illness, no consultant or GP does either, you're wrong.
As to the self-harming, the link posted previously https://www.itv.com/news/2018-09-26/british-streets-still-not-safe-for-trans-people-who-are-left-suicidal-and-self-harming-campaigner-tells-itv-news/

It is haters who harass and use violence to beat up transgender people for the crime of existing in society, they are driving people to self-harm. The same happened to gays a generation ago.

It's impossible to say what percentage of the suicide / self harm rates are due to "haters" and such,and percentage is due to internal conflict, mental illnesses, etc.

I think it's extremely unlikely that it's all, or even mostly due to hatred from others.

13-02-2019 2:27pm

Flyingsnowball wrote: »

He is just being used by the media to sell papers by sexing up a story involving people who arnt what the new story portrays.

Shame on them is what I say. Shame on the people who know the story has been sexed up but want to believe it to suit their agenda. Shame on anybody who sits there stewing about anything that doesn’t hurt anybody while we have things to worry about like genocide, starvation religious sexual abuse and all sorts of things to be outraged against.
A kids parents get asked some leading questions by a bigger newspaper after being in a smaller paper and everybody shows their true colours.

Shame on anyone who thinks a 5 year old boy should be allowed dress like a girl.

klaaaz · 13-02-2019 2:28pm

Gravelly wrote: »

I travel extensively for work, sometimes in countries with high levels of street violence, especially towards foreigners. I, like most sensible people who travel to these places, have learned to be a "grey man" - dressing, walking, and acting like a local, and doing nothing unnecessary to draw attention to myself.

A lot of groups these days think that if they sashay down the street in full carnival gear, and some asshole makes a remark to them, it's a sure sign of an ism or phobia in society. Usually it isn't - it's a combination of assholes who will stick in anyone who stands out, and the people themselves not having the sense to be street smart.

We get that you prefer to blend in, too frightened to be different or show your individuality.

Where did you get the notion that transgender people "sashay down the street in full carnival gear"?

neris · 13-02-2019 2:30pm

this transgender bolloxollogy is getting out of hand now.

Outlaw Pete · 13-02-2019 2:32pm

seamus wrote: »

If they've changed their mind, then no harm has been done.

Of course harm will be done. They have already made it known that he gets teased at school and in the area some parents have objected to him playing with their kids. A boy or girl of four/five should not have to deal with that kind of crap and while you will no doubt blame society, as far as I'm concerned, the blame lies with his parents.

"Hey Michael, do you remember when you were a kid you had us call you Barbara for a few years and you wore dresses?". "Yeah, that was a bit mad. Kids are stupid af".

More like:

"Hey Jayden, do you remember when you were a kid you heard us prattling on about how boys and girls can be born in the wrong body and so you told us you were actually a girl to try and impress us? And for a few years we treated you as if you were one and even went to the media about it, who wrote many articles about you which included photos of you in dresses? Yeah, that was a bit mad, eh. Parents can be stupid af."

Zorya · 13-02-2019 2:32pm

seamus wrote: »

The taking of blockers and other hormones won't happen until much later on and not until after considerable amounts of assessment and discussion. If the child still feels like they want to transition at that point, fine.

If they've changed their mind, then no harm has been done. "Hey Michael, do you remember when you were a kid you had us call you Barbara for a few years and you wore dresses?". "Yeah, that was a bit mad. Kids are stupid af".

Nine or ten years old for blockers, and a couple of appointments, sometimes only one.

Michael, do you remember when you thought you were a pirate when you were 8, and we gouged your eye out ... Gas times, weren't they, kiddo.

How Soon Is Now · 13-02-2019 2:33pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Oh, you're backtracking now as you cannot define what's normal despite your ignorance.

You said

Perhaps you want transgender people immediately put in a mental hospital?

I've said everything I could say really you asked a question I answered it.

It's not my fault you keep coming out with statements like the above to bring the topic into something that fits your argument.

Zorya · 13-02-2019 2:43pm

bluewolf wrote: »

I think aside from the rest of the issues, it's really disappointing that they seem to want to enforce gender roles. Like a boy can't just wear a dress, that must mean it's a girl, because boys can't wear dresses
It seems so recessive

Ironically, this is what is known as ''enforcing the gender binary.'' :rolleyes:

Later on, when it comes to sexuality, it potentiality involves gay conversion therapy under a very weird disguise. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

klaaaz · 13-02-2019 2:47pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I've said everything I could say really you asked a question I answered it.

It's not my fault you keep coming out with statements like the above to bring the topic into something that fits your argument.

Where is your proof that being transgender is a mental illness in Ireland? You brought mental illness into this topic.

Gravelly · 13-02-2019 2:51pm

klaaaz wrote: »

We get that you prefer to blend in, too frightened to be different or show your individuality.

I show my individuality when I'm among friends, like a normal person. Only attention-seeking idiots "show their individuality" where they will get a slap for it, and then run to the media to whine about it.

klaaaz wrote: »

Where did you get the notion that transgender people "sashay down the street in full carnival gear"?

You might show me where I said that transgender people specifically do that, like a good lad.

Everything isn't about you, it's a pity you can't grasp that.

PhiloCypher · 13-02-2019 2:51pm

Gravelly wrote: »

In a perfect world, which ours is not. If I dressed as 1950's chimney sweep and walked through town, I'd get hassled by assholes - does that mean there is a problem with public attitudes towards 1950's chimney sweeps? No, it means that, in the real world, if you stand out in any way, someone is likely to target you.

I travel extensively for work, sometimes in countries with high levels of street violence, especially towards foreigners. I, like most sensible people who travel to these places, have learned to be a "grey man" - dressing, walking, and acting like a local, and doing nothing unnecessary to draw attention to myself.

A lot of groups these days think that if they sashay down the street in full carnival gear, and some asshole makes a remark to them, it's a sure sign of an ism or phobia in society. Usually it isn't - it's a combination of assholes who will stick in anyone who stands out, and the people themselves not having the sense to be street smart.

If someone sashays down the street in "carnival gear" what remark do you imagine an asshole would make to them that wasn't a textbook example of an "ism" or homophobia. Assholes can multitask, just because they say assholish things to everybody doesn't mean the remark they said to the black guy wasnt racist , the gay guy wasnt homophobic or to the woman wasnt mysognistic.

Gravelly · 13-02-2019 2:53pm

PhiloCypher wrote: »

If someone sashays down the street in "carnival gear" what remark do you imagine an asshole would make to them that wasn't a textbook example of an "ism" or homophobia. Assholes can multitask just because they say assholish things to everybody doesn't mean the remark they said to the black guy wasnt racist , the gay guy wasnt homophobic or to the woman wasnt mysognistic.

Again with the "me, me, me"

Read the whole post and you might grasp the bigger message.

seamus · 13-02-2019 2:53pm

Zorya wrote: »

Nine or ten years old for blockers, and a couple of appointments, sometimes only one.

Michael, do you remember when you thought you were a pirate when you were 8, and we gouged your eye out ... Gas times, weren't they, kiddo.

Nine or ten at the very extreme end. The very rare occurrences where a transitioning child has entered precocious puberty. It would be a misrepresentation to claim that 9/10 is typical.

The gates are still the same though as they are for any transitioning adolescent. So the age is somewhat irrelevant.

How Soon Is Now · 13-02-2019 2:54pm

klaaaz wrote: »

Where is your proof that being transgender is a mental illness in Ireland? You brought mental illness into this topic.

The proof is in the condition itself can't get anymore black and white then that! Or do you need a doctor or a high level ultra feminist to tell ya before you believe it?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 13-02-2019 3:00pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/normal

There ya go!

So, as you were asked for YOUR deifnition and you provided a standard definition, I can assuem this is YOUR definition also?

And that you believe that EVERYONE should conform to the "usual, stnadard, typical, expected"?

Sounds horribly authoritarian.

klaaaz · 13-02-2019 3:00pm

Gravelly wrote: »

I show my individuality when I'm among friends, like a normal person. Only attention-seeking idiots "show their individuality" where they will get a slap for it, and then run to the media to whine about it.

What? Ordinary people we're talking about here, not some celebrity.

Gravelly wrote: »

You might show me where I said that transgender people specifically do that, like a good lad.

Everything isn't about you, it's a pity you can't grasp that.

Come on, answer the question.

Gravelly wrote:

A lot of groups these days think that if they sashay down the street in full carnival gear

Do you deny that transgender people do "sashay down the street in full carnival gear"?

klaaaz · 13-02-2019 3:03pm

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

The proof is in the condition itself can't get anymore black and white then that! Or do you need a doctor or a high level ultra feminist to tell ya before you believe it?

So you cannot back up your claim that transgender is a mental illness, the HSE do not treat it as a mental illness so does that mean the medical community is full of "ultra feminists"? :rolleyes:

Gravelly · 13-02-2019 3:04pm

klaaaz wrote: »

What? Ordinary people we're talking about here, not some celebrity.

Come on, answer the question.

Do you deny that transgender people do "sashay down the street in full carnival gear"?

The one transgender lad (sorry lady) I know sort of slinks rather than sashays, and he/she dresses like a lumberjack, so, in my limited experience, no, but perhaps you do?

Lesbian transgender couple declares their plan to transition their 5-year-old son

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