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Biden/Harris Presidency Discussion Thread

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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 11,302 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hermy


    Is the Trump administration trying to install a dictatorship? First step, turn the secret service into yes men with loyalty tests and firing everybody in the Pentagon who don't agree with their policies, and second, try to get the military on side and attacking the chain of command. Hope I'm wrong.

    I had thought it was just about sullying the Biden presidency before it's even started, particularly Trump's 'press conference' the night of the election, but it's beginning to look scarily like it might be a bit more than that now.

    Genealogy Forum Mod



  • Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Zascar wrote: »
    What can we expect from the Biden Administration's policy for the Middle East? I'm seeing many people skeptical about Biden's foreign policy will praise the fact that Trump started no new wars and fostered peace in the middle east never seen before - like deals between Israel and UAE & Bahrain etc.. They also say going back into the Iran deal will be a disaster and end up with Iran getting nukes which I don't understand, and that Democrats will be a disaster for middle eastern policy and relations. I'm an Expat in the UAE and should be scared apparently - I'm wondering if there is any truth in this? What can we expect over the next 4 years from Biden/Harris compared to Trump and the Republicans?

    Sounds like you were talking with hardcore Trump fans..

    Here's what I expect:

    1. Huge reduction in drone strikes.
    2. Thaw in Iran/US relations
    3. Israel not getting everything they want
    4. Most troops in middle east returning home.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,983 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Zascar wrote: »
    What can we expect from the Biden Administration's policy for the Middle East? I'm seeing many people skeptical about Biden's foreign policy will praise the fact that Trump started no new wars and fostered peace in the middle east never seen before - like deals between Israel and UAE & Bahrain etc.. They also say going back into the Iran deal will be a disaster and end up with Iran getting nukes which I don't understand, and that Democrats will be a disaster for middle eastern policy and relations. I'm an Expat in the UAE and should be scared apparently - I'm wondering if there is any truth in this? What can we expect over the next 4 years from Biden/Harris compared to Trump and the Republicans?

    Honestly - They are not "peace" deals.

    Aside from the fact that they were never at War in the first place, they are "Gang up on Iran" deals nothing more.

    All of those countries have for a variety of reasons a vested interest in taking Iran off the board in the middle east.

    If anything , Trump exiting the Iran deal did more to accelerate Iran getting nukes than any other actions.

    Not saying that Iran are anything close to perfect , but neither are most of the other countries in that region.

    Iran needs to be brought into the fold and to be made to adhere to International rules.

    The deal was the best way of doing that - Backing them into a corner and making them more worried about a major strike from a consolidated alliance of Israel et al makes them more likely to build a nuke to defend themselves not less.


  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle




    …..Look at the flip side. California voted against affirmative action. It rolled back union labor rights. (There's a long story behind that one, the unions loved the law, but independent contractors like uber drivers hated it)…….

    Just on this, I honestly don't know how all the Uber drivers feel about it, but Uber and Lfyt spent in the region of €100m between them lobbying for the continued use of contractors. If the contractors liked it so much, why the need to mount such expensive opposition to the proposal?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    Honestly - They are not "peace" deals.

    Aside from the fact that they were never at War in the first place, they are "Gang up on Iran" deals nothing more.

    All of those countries have for a variety of reasons a vested interest in taking Iran off the board in the middle east.

    If anything , Trump exiting the Iran deal did more to accelerate Iran getting nukes than any other actions.

    Not saying that Iran are anything close to perfect , but neither are most of the other countries in that region.

    Iran needs to be brought into the fold and to be made to adhere to International rules.

    The deal was the best way of doing that - Backing them into a corner and making them more worried about a major strike from a consolidated alliance of Israel et al makes them more likely to build a nuke to defend themselves not less.

    Fully agree. All those 'Peace Deals' were about ganging up aganst Iran and the Palestinian people were after-thoughts at best.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    hirondelle wrote: »
    Just on this, I honestly don't know how all the Uber drivers feel about it, but Uber and Lfyt spent in the region of €100m between them lobbying for the continued use of contractors. If the contractors liked it so much, why the need to mount such expensive opposition to it?

    Any uber driver I spoke with hated it, but I seemed to only find uber drivers who were working as side gigs, not full-time uber drivers who I would presume would have been in favour of the law. I believe the former greatly outnumber the latter. It wasn't the uber drivers that the money was targeting, it was voters who just saw "worker protections" in the title of the law they were trying to overturn. The State AG got to choose the title of the proposition, he picked "Exempts App-Based Transportation and Delivery Companies from Providing Employee Benefits to Certain Drivers"

    The story of AB5 actually had nothing to do with the gig economy at all to begin with. I seem to recall it started out with a trucker's union around Port of Oakland who were pissed off with independent owner-operators coming in and taking loads, and it was something of a follow-on from a California Supreme Court Case involving a delivery service named "Dynamex" in 2018 which required classifying previously independent contractors as employees if they met certain criteria. In any case, AB-5 of 2019 expanded on that, requiring job benefits (healthcare, sick days etc) for those now-employees. Which also meant, though, that as employees, the companies would have much greater control over them, such as mandating working hours. One of the big appeals for working for Uber is you can clock in and clock out whenever you feel like it, so it's a great little pocket-money earner for folks who drive into town an hour or two before their regular work, for example, or just want to pull a couple of hours in the evening when everyone's going out for dinner. However, if Uber (and Lyft, Doordash etc) is going to have to pay to give you all the 'employee benefits', they're going to want their pound of flesh for it, and make you work more, and on the hours they determine. Obviously a lot of current Uber drivers would rather say 'sod that', and leave. Uber decided it was better to have lots of independents than try to manage full-timers, so they opposed it (As well, obviously for the financial reasons of not having to pay the benefits).

    The first legal challenge came from the California Association of Truckers, on behalf of the independent owner-operators. It's been working its way through the system, in the meantime some truckers have lost work even with an injunction from the district courts protecting them as some large trucking companies (with employees) have already restructured operations to avoid hiring these independents. Argued at the Ninth Circuit two months ago, no opinion rendered yet to my knowledge.

    Then it was realised that all sorts of people were being affected by the law, not just truckers and uber drivers. The legislature then passed AB2257 specifically exempted a series of contractors, to include photographers, content contributors, photo editors, musicians, barbers, translators, performing arts instructors (as long as they don't teach more than once a week), realtors, home inspectors, and a few others. A bunch of other gig economy workers were not exempted, including uber/lyft.

    Enter Prop 22 on the ballot this month, an 8-page-long document of incomprehensible legalese. The way it's worded, it refers solely to app-based driving and delivery, which kindof sucks for a bunch of others, to include, most likely, the truckers. On the other hand, most everyone in California is familiar with and uses Uber and Lyft and can relate to it far better than someone who writes computer apps on the side. The list of opponents to the proposition includes Biden, Harris, Sanders, Warren, California Democrat Party, and a bunch of labour unions. They still lost as 58% voted to exempt the ride-share and doordash-type folks.

    The saga continues for the truck drivers, performing arts instructors who do more than one master class a week, programmers, etc....


  • Registered Users Posts: 326 ✭✭hirondelle


    Any uber driver I spoke with hated it, but I seemed to only find uber drivers who were working as side gigs, not full-time uber drivers. It wasn't the uber drivers that the money was targeting, it was voters who just saw "worker protections" in the title of the law they were trying to overturn.

    The story of AB5 actually had nothing to do with the gig economy at all to begin with. I seem to recall it started out with a trucker's union around Port of Oakland who were pissed off with independent owner-operators coming in and taking loads, and it was something of a follow-on from a California Supreme Court Case involving a delivery service named "Dynamex" in 2018 which required classifying previously independent contractors as employees if they met certain criteria. In any case, AB-5 of 2019 expanded on that, requiring job benefits (healthcare, sick days etc) for those now-employees. Which also meant, though, that as employees, the companies would have much greater control over them, such as mandating working hours. One of the big appeals for working for Uber is you can clock in and clock out whenever you feel like it, so it's a great little pocket-money earner for folks who drive into town an hour or two before their regular work, for example, or just want to pull a couple of hours in the evening when everyone's going out for dinner.

    The first legal challenge came from the California Association of Truckers, on behalf of the independent owner-operators. It's been working its way through the system, in the meantime some truckers have lost work even with an injunction from the district courts protecting them as some large trucking companies (with employees) have already restructured operations to avoid hiring these independents. Argued at the Ninth Circuit two months ago, no opinion rendered yet to my knowledge.

    Then it was realised that all sorts of people were being affected by the law, not just truckers and uber drivers. The legislature then passed AB2257 specifically exempted a series of contractors, to include photographers, content contributors, photo editors, musicians, barbers, translators, performing arts instructors (as long as they don't tech more than once a week), realtors, home inspectors, and a few others. A bunch of other gig economy workers were not exempted, including uber/lyft.

    Enter Prop 22 on the ballot this month, an 8-page-long document of incomprehensible legalese. The way it's worded, it refers solely to app-based driving and delivery, which kindof sucks for a bunch of others, to include, most likely, the truckers. On the other hand, most everyone in California is familiar with and uses Uber and Lyft and can relate to it far better than someone who writes computer apps on the side. The list of opponents to the proposition includes Biden, Harris, Sanders, Warren, California Democrat Party, and a bunch of labour unions. They still lost as 58% voted to exempt the ride-share and doordash-type folks.

    The saga continues for the truck drivers, performing arts instructors, programmers, etc....

    Elucidating as ever MM- thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    rossie1977 wrote: »
    Sounds like you were talking with hardcore Trump fans..

    Here's what I expect:

    1. Huge reduction in drone strikes.
    2. Thaw in Iran/US relations
    3. Israel not getting everything they want
    4. Most troops in middle east returning home.

    Not sure why you would expect Biden to reduce drone strikes, the Obama administration greatly expanded their usage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 25,400 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    Not sure why you would expect Biden to reduce drone strikes, the Obama administration greatly expanded their usage.

    And Trump expanded it further, then stopped reporting on them when it was pointed out he the Trump administration had done more than Obama.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Not sure why you would expect Biden to reduce drone strikes, the Obama administration greatly expanded their usage.

    Biden isn't Obama. People seem to have trouble with this very simple fact.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Zascar wrote: »
    What can we expect from the Biden Administration's policy for the Middle East? I'm seeing many people skeptical about Biden's foreign policy will praise the fact that Trump started no new wars and fostered peace in the middle east never seen before - like deals between Israel and UAE & Bahrain etc.. ?

    Trump was anything but a dove so its safe to say next few years will be better.

    It won't be that great though, Biden is a hawk who supported the Iraq war whose campaign team have courted neocon Trump hawks with open arms and the likely appointment of Susan Rice is very unsettling.

    It is what it is though, nobody bar a few libertarians and progressives care about foreign policy in America and they don't win many elections!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Rjd2 wrote: »
    Trump was anything but a dove so its safe to say next few years will be better.

    It won't be that great though, Biden is a hawk who supported the Iraq war whose campaign team have courted neocon Trump hawks with open arms and the likely appointment of Susan Rice is very unsettling.

    It is what it is though, nobody bar a few libertarians and progressives care about foreign policy in America and they don't win many elections!

    Can you back that up with a book reference - "Trump was anything but a dove". My understanding that the Trump admin significantly drew-down US involvment overseas and the Trump doctrine (by Colin Dueck in "Age of Iron") as essentially de-escalation and a negotiated settlement.
    You are free to make any form of unsubstationate wish on the internet about happy days are here again, but given the international polices of the previous Obama admin of which Biden was intimately involved in the decision making, you'll likely be disabused.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Manach wrote: »
    Can you back that up with a book reference - "Trump was anything but a dove". My understanding that the Trump admin significantly drew-down US involvment overseas and the Trump doctrine (by Colin Dueck in "Age of Iron") as essentially de-escalation and a negotiated settlement.
    You are free to make any form of unsubstationate wish on the internet about happy days are here again, but given the international polices of the previous Obama admin of which Biden was intimately involved in the decision making, you'll likely be disabused.



    Drone strikes increased hugely with Trump in charge.

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2019/5/8/18619206/under-donald-trump-drone-strikes-far-exceed-obama-s-numbers

    He never brought troops home, he put out tweets saying he would but that was it, anytime he floated the idea once he faced any opposition he bottled it.

    https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/2019-12-03/trump-didnt-shrink-us-military-commitments-abroad-he-expanded-them


    He nearly started a war with Iran but needed Tucker Carlson to talk him down.

    https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/iran/.premium-trump-has-come-out-as-a-neocon-on-iran-and-tucker-carlson-can-t-stand-it-1.8357699

    He tried a coup in Venezuela but failed because he didn't want to put the work in.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/06/american-captured-alleged-venezuelan-coup-plot-says-donald-trump/

    He hired John Bolton.


    Trump talked some sense about how stupid the Iraq war when he was in the GOP primary and he hammering Bush was amusing, but once he became president he governed no differently than any Republican.

    Not starting a war is a really low bar also tbf.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Trump was great at getting the retweets for slagging off neo-cons (he hired loads) and how unfair it was Americans were serving in forever wars (he did nothing about it) but like the "wall" not only did he do **** all even worse its quite obvious he never made any attempt to complete any of his promises.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Zascar wrote: »
    What can we expect from the Biden Administration's policy for the Middle East? I'm seeing many people skeptical about Biden's foreign policy will praise the fact that Trump started no new wars and fostered peace in the middle east never seen before - like deals between Israel and UAE & Bahrain etc.. They also say going back into the Iran deal will be a disaster and end up with Iran getting nukes which I don't understand, and that Democrats will be a disaster for middle eastern policy and relations. I'm an Expat in the UAE and should be scared apparently - I'm wondering if there is any truth in this? What can we expect over the next 4 years from Biden/Harris compared to Trump and the Republicans?

    Its a good question and I'm not sure what we can expect yet. I do believe that the KSA/UAE/Israel anti-Shia axis that was strengthened through the use of Kushner as a 'useful idiot' by that axis will be re-examined. In that re-examination, I could see a re-emergence of greater detente with Iran in order to get them out of the nukes business, overseen by qualified international watchdogs. Also, the failure of the US to do anything of value to help resolve Palestinian subjugation over the past few years needs to be reversed. Whether that results in moving the US Embassy out of Jerusalem remains to be seen, but that would certainly be a meaningful foreign policy change that would signal to Palestinians that Biden means business.

    The biggest threat in the Middle East right now lies within it. It is almost entirely a struggle between Shia and Sunni Muslims, battling a centuries-old religious war that was relatively well controlled while the Ottoman Empire was in charge. Upon their loss of control following defeat in WW1, and the dreadful Sykes-Picot agreement, the seeds of current turmoil were sown. Interventionism by UK and France, followed later by the US insatiable appetite for oil while ignoring the history of the region and its People, put the match to the centuries-old tinder and set it all alight.

    So, what does all that have to do with Biden? Well, for starters, try and really understand the history. Then, stop throwing fuel on the fire. Work on getting the region's temperature down by using economic tools such as sanctions rather than military tools like smart bombs. Re-engage with the international community and work together to bring countries along rather than giving them the means of killing each other.. U.S., U.K., Russia, France must all STOP SELLING THE ARMS into the tinder-box!

    In relation to Palestine and Israel, develop an international consensus to create a jointly controlled corridor between them, housing new schools and universities, technology parks and the means to foster mutual undersanding and raise both education and social/economic well-being of a totally down-trodden people.

    There's a start!


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Brian? wrote: »
    Biden isn't Obama. People seem to have trouble with this very simple fact.

    Saying that like it means he's divergent from the same thinking that informed Obama. From the administration that brought you Libya and the debacle in sryia


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 9,663 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manach


    Rjd2 wrote: »


    Trump talked some sense about how stupid the Iraq war when he was in the GOP primary and he hammering Bush was amusing, but once he became president he governed no differently than any Republican.

    Not starting a war is a really low bar also tbf.

    TBF - ditto googling reasons why Trump is bad into a search engine. The failure to note how easily previous Presidents were involved in new conflicts overseas thus rather undercuts that assertion. Trump managed to stand up to and then fire hawks such as Bolton and Mattis was a credit to his willingness not to bow to the military-industrial complex.


  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 14,983 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Manach wrote: »
    TBF - ditto googling reasons why Trump is bad into a search engine. The failure to note how easily previous Presidents were involved in new conflicts overseas thus rather undercuts that assertion. Trump managed to stand up to and then fire hawks such as Bolton and Mattis was a credit to his willingness not to bow to the military-industrial complex.

    He fired them for not kissing the ring. No more , no less.

    The suggestion that the man that oversaw more military spending and more Arms Sales than another President, "was unwilling to bow to the Military-Industrial Complex" is simply preposterous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,113 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    He sold enough of it to the Saudis to keep the Military Industrial complex very busy.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Saying that like it means he's divergent from the same thinking that informed Obama. From the administration that brought you Libya and the debacle in sryia

    There’s no firm evidence on whether he’s “divergent” or not yet on foreign policy. I can guarantee you, unlike his predecessor, Biden isn’t devoid of morality. He may actually care about how many civilians the drones are killing.

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 20,763 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Quin_Dub wrote: »
    He fired them for not kissing the ring. No more , no less.

    The suggestion that the man that oversaw more military spending and more Arms Sales than another President, "was unwilling to bow to the Military-Industrial Complex" is simply preposterous.

    It looks like he actually fired them because he’s pulling the majority of forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq with a deadline set 5 days before the inauguration. Thus, he can run in 2024 as the POTUS who pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan l

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




  • Registered Users Posts: 12,004 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Brian? wrote: »
    It looks like he actually fired them because he’s pulling the majority of forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq with a deadline set 5 days before the inauguration. Thus, he can run in 2024 as the POTUS who pulled out of Iraq and Afghanistan l

    Anyone who thinks he will do this I'd pity them.

    It would be a fine thing to do, but the opposition to it would so be so overwhelming he will back down bar fire out a few tweets and get huge numbers and he will reflect on a job well done.

    He's done this numerous times over last few years and he actually had much more leverage than he does right now and he always back's down.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Biden has rehired immigration cage detention advocate Cecilia munoz who worked in the Obama administration.

    "Muñoz, who was a well-known advocate for the Latinx community, having previously worked at La Raza and Center for Community Change, became the public face of Obama administration’s deportation machine. She was the Latina who provided political cover for the largest deportation machine built in the history of this country. She justified Obama’s immigration policies, in Spanish, including Obama’s deportation of thousands of Central American children and its decision to stop an executive order that would have halted deportations. She defended the policy of deporting “criminals” — which could include a vast array of offenses, including traffic violations. And she went as far as to say that deporting people who had not been accused of a crime was “collateral damage.”

    Not a fantastic start by any means


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,341 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Not sure why you would expect Biden to reduce drone strikes, the Obama administration greatly expanded their usage.

    Trump massively increased drone usage so even if Biden was comparable to Obama there would be huge https://touch.boards.ie/thread/2058129592/561/#post115312413

    No ISIS now, no Bin Laden so I expect lower than Obama who inherited a mess from previous administration


  • Registered Users Posts: 22,431 ✭✭✭✭extra gravy


    Biden has rehired immigration cage detention advocate Cecilia munoz who worked in the Obama administration.

    "Muñoz, who was a well-known advocate for the Latinx community, having previously worked at La Raza and Center for Community Change, became the public face of Obama administration’s deportation machine. She was the Latina who provided political cover for the largest deportation machine built in the history of this country. She justified Obama’s immigration policies, in Spanish, including Obama’s deportation of thousands of Central American children and its decision to stop an executive order that would have halted deportations. She defended the policy of deporting “criminals” — which could include a vast array of offenses, including traffic violations. And she went as far as to say that deporting people who had not been accused of a crime was “collateral damage.”

    Not a fantastic start by any means

    Why are you posting this again? Didn't get the reaction you wanted in the other thread?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    Why are you posting this again? Didn't get the reaction you wanted in the other thread?

    It is relevant to the upcoming Biden presidency.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Biden has rehired immigration cage detention advocate Cecilia munoz who worked in the Obama administration.

    "Muñoz, who was a well-known advocate for the Latinx community, having previously worked at La Raza and Center for Community Change, became the public face of Obama administration’s deportation machine. She was the Latina who provided political cover for the largest deportation machine built in the history of this country. She justified Obama’s immigration policies, in Spanish, including Obama’s deportation of thousands of Central American children and its decision to stop an executive order that would have halted deportations. She defended the policy of deporting “criminals” — which could include a vast array of offenses, including traffic violations. And she went as far as to say that deporting people who had not been accused of a crime was “collateral damage.”

    Not a fantastic start by any means

    Why are you posting a large chunk of text as a quotation, without making it clear whose opinion(s) you are quoting and where you are sourcing it from?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Water John wrote: »
    He sold enough of it to the Saudis to keep the Military Industrial complex very busy.

    Not to mention a crazy sale of F-35s to UAE, thereby

    a) giving Russia and China access to hitherto Secret US leading edge technology, and
    b) providing a so-called defensive capability that is clearly destined to exacerbate Sunni/Shia civil war in Yemen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    The Team is growing.... And not a family member in sight!!!

    https://twitter.com/KlasfeldReports/status/1328739768683941888?s=19


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,801 ✭✭✭Roanmore


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    The Team is growing.... And not a family member in sight!!!

    Imagine The Republicans and Fox if he appointed Hunter :eek:

    Can the Senate block the appointments? If so, what happens, does Government come to a standstill? Is there a way around it?


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