Negative equity & break ups!?

bella77 · 25-11-2011 10:41am #1

Hi, I'm sure this has been posted before, and have a read through some previous posts, just wondering if there is any examples similar to mine, or any advice...
I own a house 50:50 with an ex boyfriend, we split up almost 3 years ago and are in negative equity on the house. I have moved out, he is still there, I am still paying my share of the mortgage and have asked so many times to rent the house long term. he wont. I've had to move out and pay additional rent because living there was unbearable but he wont allow me to rent a room to help cover mortgage costs, and cant afford to buy me out. I need his consent to sell.
I'm speaking to the bank and a family solicitor but there seems to be very little i can do without his consent.
If anyone has been through a similar situation is there any advice you can give on how to force a sale or force a long term rent?
Thanks

seamus · 25-11-2011 10:49am

I'm surprised by often people miss this about negative equity;

If you want to get out of the house, he doesn't have to buy you out, you have to buy him out because the house is in negative equity.

Look at it this way;

Imagine the mortgage is €300k and the house is "worth" 200k. This means that your negative equity is 100k, of which you are liable for half.

In order for your ex boyfriend to take the entire house, he has to increase his mortgage by 100k (to cover your half of the "worth" of the house) and you have to pay the bank €50k to get out of the mortgage.

There's no real way to force the sale afaik if your ex is living in the house.

bella77 · 25-11-2011 10:52am

Thanks Seamus, I should have said I've offered to buy him out and he won't sell.... or move out to allow us to rent it.

seamus · 25-11-2011 10:58am

You've spoken to a solicitor, so he's probably gone through it with you, but I don't know if it possible for you to simply rent your half without his permission in the same way that you may be able to sell your half without his permission. That depends on what way you bought the house though.

I would argue that since he has exclusive use the entire property (and not just his half), then rent is due to you from him for his use of your half. Have you looked at that possibility?

Zamboni · 25-11-2011 11:01am

seamus wrote: »

I would argue that since he has exclusive use the entire property (and not just his half), then rent is due to you from him for his use of your half. Have you looked at that possibility?

Whilst I agree with you that would be an equitable arrangement on what legal basis could the OP possibly demand a rent from a man who is living in his own house?

JohnDigital · 25-11-2011 11:05am

Can you arrange with the bank to go interest only on the Mortgage and stop paying off capital until such a stage that you can both mutually agree an amicable solution?

seamus · 25-11-2011 11:13am

Zamboni wrote: »

Whilst I agree with you that would be an equitable arrangement on what legal basis could the OP possibly demand a rent from a man who is living in his own house?

Possibly on the basis that she is being constructively denied use of her own property by virtue of his unwillingness to reach a compromise.

Or in other words, since he's actively refusing to sell the property and retaining occupancy of it, then he is effectively denying her use of the property and therefore is liable for rent.

She may actually have access to the property, but whether it is possible or realistic for her to use it is unlikely.

That's just my 2c. Not sure if it would stand up in court.

Zamboni · 25-11-2011 11:16am

seamus wrote: »

Possibly on the basis that she is being constructively denied use of her own property by virtue of his unwillingness to reach a compromise.

Or in other words, since he's actively refusing to sell the property and retaining occupancy of it, then he is effectively denying her use of the property and therefore is liable for rent.

She may actually have access to the property, but whether it is possible or realistic for her to use it is unlikely.

That's just my 2c. Not sure if it would stand up in court.

But there is nothing stopping her living in the house herself other than she says it is unbearable.
So the OP is making a choice not to live in the house.
He is not denying her the use of the property.

I am only playing devil's advocate here.
It is a very tough situation and I have yet to hear of any case that has been settled amicably unless one of the parties is able to buy the other out.

Zulu · 25-11-2011 11:18am

What about calculating the rental value of the house (say €1000 per month) then halfing it, your potential rental income, (€500), and deducting that from the amount you repay each month in mortgage payments?

Zamboni · 25-11-2011 11:28am

Zulu wrote: »

What about calculating the rental value of the house (say €1000 per month) then halfing it, your potential rental income, (€500), and deducting that from the amount you repay each month in mortgage payments?

If he doesn't cover the difference she is still jointly liable for the full amount of the mortgage.

bella77 · 25-11-2011 11:34am

thanks, yeah the option of him paying me rent is probably the most practical... bat as Zamboni said he is living in his own house and i'm still liable even if he refuses to pay!

However it's my house too and he's effectively made it impossible for me to live there and an amicable agreement is very unlikely at this stage!

Thanks for the suggestions

Zamboni · 25-11-2011 11:37am

bella77 wrote: »

thanks, yeah the option of him paying me rent is probably the most practical... bat as Zamboni said he is living in his own house and i'm still liable even if he refuses to pay!

However it's my house too and he's effectively made it impossible for me to live there and an amicable agreement is very unlikely at this stage!

Thanks for the suggestions

If you do come to some form of solution please post an update.
There are lots of people in the same boat.
Best of luck.

seamus · 25-11-2011 11:53am

Zamboni wrote: »

But there is nothing stopping her living in the house herself other than she says it is unbearable.
So the OP is making a choice not to live in the house.
He is not denying her the use of the property.

I am only playing devil's advocate here.
It is a very tough situation and I have yet to hear of any case that has been settled amicably unless one of the parties is able to buy the other out.

Absolutely.
I'm basically looking at it from the same point of view that someone would be contructively dismissed from employment. In reality someone in such a scenario has made a choice of their own free will to end their employment, but that decision has been influenced through others making that employment unbearable or untenable.

So that's the angle I'm getting at here. If the OP can't use her property by virtue of being "constructively" barred from it, one could argue that the ex is liable for rent.

Longshot, maybe. Like you, I've never heard of anyone successfully charging an ex rent in such a scenario.

Zulu · 25-11-2011 11:53am

Zamboni wrote: »

If he doesn't cover the difference she is still jointly liable for the full amount of the mortgage.

True, but if she maintains this system, perhaps the banks/a judge would that this into account?

liger · 25-11-2011 12:27pm

bella77 wrote: »

If anyone has been through a similar situation is there any advice you can give on how to force a sale

You need the following.

1. A decent solicitor
2. A lot of money
3. An agreement from your bank to allow you to sell in neg Equity
4. A lot of time

SineadMarie · 20-01-2012 10:35am

I'm in the same boat as you, bought a house 4 years ago, then we split up. We were living together for a while after we broke up but i couldn't stay in that situation anymore as like you he made it an impossible living arrangement. I was in hell and so depressed and unhappy. He agreed to buy me out but the bank wouldn't allow it, so we've been renting it out. Even though its rented not all the mortgage is covered and we have to pay a certain amount ourselves, he still makes life difficult. He wants to sell or for me to buy him out, the negative equity is huge and i cant see the bank agreeing to let us sell. Plus this is not something i will agree to, the mortgage is mostly been paid we cant just walk away and if we do there would be huge debts that i cant afford. I constantly get abusive emails, texts! I just want to say i feel really bad for you and its a horrible situation to be in i hope it works out for you

Zamboni · 20-01-2012 12:08pm

SineadMarie wrote: »

I'm in the same boat as you, bought a house 4 years ago, then we split up. We were living together for a while after we broke up but i couldn't stay in that situation anymore as like you he made it an impossible living arrangement. I was in hell and so depressed and unhappy. He agreed to buy me out but the bank wouldn't allow it, so we've been renting it out. Even though its rented not all the mortgage is covered and we have to pay a certain amount ourselves, he still makes life difficult. He wants to sell or for me to buy him out, the negative equity is huge and i cant see the bank agreeing to let us sell. Plus this is not something i will agree to, the mortgage is mostly been paid we cant just walk away and if we do there would be huge debts that i cant afford. I constantly get abusive emails, texts! I just want to say i feel really bad for you and its a horrible situation to be in i hope it works out for you

Put the ball in his court.
Tell him if he can get the banks permission to sell and tranfser the negative equity into even personal loans then so be it.
He probably won't get it and he will have no reason to annoy you over it.

SineadMarie · 20-01-2012 12:27pm

Yes a friend of mine suggested that, i'm just afraid that they might agree, we're in serious NE 150K cant afford to pay half that

Is there anyway if i do buy him that he is left with his share of the NE i dont see why i should be left with his debt if i agree to take over the mortgage just so i can escape him. Hes a horrible person and is just out to make my life hell.

Zamboni · 20-01-2012 12:34pm

SineadMarie wrote: »

Yes a friend of mine suggested that, i'm just afraid that they might agree, we're in serious NE 150K cant afford to pay half that Is there anyway if i do buy him that he is left with his share of the NE i dont see why i should be left with his debt if i agree to take over the mortgage just so i can escape him. Hes a horrible person and is just out to make my life hell.

Don't buy him out. Don't even dare consider it.
Bank permitting, I would suggest you would be better off with your own personal loan of 75k for the NE than having to deal with the ex for the remaining term of the mortgage.
There is no easy route for you here, so I'd fight for the option that will give you the least hassle and the most control over.

SineadMarie · 20-01-2012 12:38pm

Thanks a mill for your advice, there's no easy way out of this and its sad that so many people are stuck in this situation.

Tigger · 20-01-2012 5:07pm

i know of a woman who broke up with her husband in 2005
he offered to buy her out of thr house offered her half the equity (bout 25 grand)
she said no wanted more
in 2009 he asked oif she'd sign over the house to her as there was no equity he wanted her to do it for free.
she said no wanted more
now she is responsaible for half the 80 grand negative equity.

Negative equity & break ups!?

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