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Ireland's Jewish community

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  • Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    I did Nazi that joke coming at all.

    Thought Bernard Manning was dead?


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    I know my me.

    Strange thread.

    Shalom.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    Psychometric tests indicate that Ashkenazi Jews have higher average intelligence than other ethnic groups.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,853 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Wibbs wrote: »
    I grew up off the south circular road in Dublin in the 70's so a fair number of my friends were Jewish. Like SE noted we didn't make any real distinction. I do remember kids conversations about sausages and what, you can't eat them, what the hell? :D I also remember being in one mate's house and asking his ma about the fancy candlestick on the sideboard and she telling me about the Menorah and what it was about. I also clearly remember her smiling when I asked about the fancy candlestick. :) She also made these very very tasty pastries which I never had before and can't recall the name, but we would devour them.

    I think they were called kubaneh, but we called them kubbies. Like la di da croissants now. They were the dogs blx back in the day and SO unusual for us.

    And we also had the matzo bread, which was worse than Jacobs Cream crackers. But we ate it of course, it was FOOD.

    I think we were so fortunate to have been exposed to all this when we were nippers, it was so exotic. But we didn't really realise it at the time, it was grub and we devoured it!


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Shalom.


    Aleichem Shalom.

    Peace and Love Dude! :)


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,482 ✭✭✭Gimme A Pound


    Why are some people saying it's a strange thread? No it's not.

    There are very very few Jews in Ireland so it's unusual to know any, and it's a culture that many find fascinating.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Why are some people saying it's a strange thread? No it's not.

    There are very very few Jews in Ireland so it's unusual to know any, and it's a culture that many find fascinating.

    Well generally when someone has drawn attention to it in my life it hasn't always been for good reasons. So I guess that is why it felt weird.

    Its good to be interested in other cultures :)


  • Posts: 0 Jenny Ripe Junkie


    Im pretty sure Lenny Abrahamson - a famous Irish director - is of Jewish Heritage, but im open to correction on that one. Amy Hubermans grandparents are jewish and the famous 'Man on bridge', Arthur Fields was also Jewish. From what I gather, it seems any Jewish community we have in Ireland seems to be based mostly around Rathgar/Rathmines. I remember my father telling me when he was young he worked on a building site in a jewish school in Dublin.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    There was a GP in Shannon called Ivor Green
    He looked after my family until he retired, great doctor.
    He was Jewish

    Susanah Hoffs is Jewish she's absolutely gorgeous.

    Two exes of mine are Jewish one of the German Jewish people who's family survived ww2, the other lady's grandfather was exiled to Scotland.

    Ironically im still on good terms with both women.

    Very factual logical people they are...

    Jewish women are absolutely stunning


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Im pretty sure Lenny Abrahamson - a famous Irish director - is of Jewish Heritage, but im open to correction on that one. Amy Hubermans grandparents are jewish and the famous 'Man on bridge', Arthur Fields was also Jewish. From what I gather, it seems any Jewish community we have in Ireland seems to be based mostly around Rathgar/Rathmines. I remember my father telling me when he was young he worked on a building site in a jewish school in Dublin.


    My grandparents knew Arthur Fields.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Concerning the Irish Jewish Communigy - a well known individual was Isaac Herzog / Hertzog who was the Chief Rabbi of Ireland, his term lasting from 1921 to 1936.

    According to Wiki:
    Born in Poland from where his family moved to Leeds - Rabbi Herzog served as rabbi of Belfast from 1916 to 1919 and was appointed rabbi of Dublin in 1919. A fluent speaker of the Irish language, he supported the First Dáil and the Irish republican cause during the Irish War of Independence, and became known as "the Sinn Féin Rabbi". He went on to serve as Chief Rabbi of Ireland between 1922 and 1936, when he immigrated to Palestine to succeed Rabbi Abraham Isaac Kook as Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi upon his death. He became a supporter of both the Irish Republican Army and the Irgun.

    The references appear to check out tbh.


  • Posts: 0 Jenny Ripe Junkie


    My grandparents knew Arthur Fields.


    His photo collection is amazing. RTE done a very enjoyable documentary about him two or three year ago.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    CrankyHaus wrote: »
    No.They usually are descendants of people who came over fleeing earlier pogroms and general anti-semitism in Eastern Europe, especially Tsarist Russia.

    Worth noting that Israeli leader Chaim Herzog was born and raised in Ireland. His father was the chief rabbi of ireland, a Gaelgoir and supporter of ours during the war of independence.

    Our Jewish population has been in decline for decades. It's probably now too small to be self sustaining, as many who want to marry in the community need to go over to the UK. Others have simply integrated and married into the Irish mainstream to the extent that you wouldn't know their Jewish background unless they told you. One family I know are like this. You'll meet a disproportionate amount in the law, though still not many.


    Today there are people in Dublin whose relatives survived the holocaust who are Irish and grew up here ..also some who were refugees.

    There are also a lot of Jews from Eastern Europe who have come in the last few years and Israelis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    From what I gather, it seems any Jewish community we have in Ireland seems to be based mostly around Rathgar/Rathmines.

    Unfortunately this was true for several decades

    Thankful for the last 2 (I think?) Census returns, the Jewish population of Dublin is slow growing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Unfortunately this was true for several decades

    Thankful for the last 2 (I think?) Census returns, the Jewish population of Dublin is slow growing.


    Well actually Jews who are orthodox need to be near the shul and mikvah for practical reasons.

    Also the Jewish population is growing. Many more here than when i was a kid.

    Not all very religious though. Partic Israelis.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,683 ✭✭✭Subcomandante Marcos


    Well actually Jews who are orthodox need to be near the shul and mikvah for practical reasons.

    Also the Jewish population is growing. Many more here than when i was a kid.

    Not all very religious though. Partic Israelis.

    So the Jewish population is growing?

    Sound, thanks.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    What's the obsession with Jews? With israelis I could maybe understand, given their recent governments.
    But Jew, Protestant, Opus Dei, bog standard Catholic, Muslim, headbanger Muslim, who gives a ****?
    I'm Rosicrucian. The law of the land stands. Your higher moral code (or not) stands.
    I don't understand the parochial nature of the OP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    I'm Rosicrucian.


    Then you prob know some hebrew ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    I kind of think its weird after all this time they never had an Irish Rabbi lets say on the Late Late.

    Say around the time of the lighting of the menorah in Dublin for Hanukah etc.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,350 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    An Ri rua wrote: »
    What's the obsession with Jews? With israelis I could maybe understand, given their recent governments.
    But Jew, Protestant, Opus Dei, bog standard Catholic, Muslim, headbanger Muslim, who gives a ****?
    I'm Rosicrucian. The law of the land stands. Your higher moral code (or not) stands.
    I don't understand the parochial nature of the OP.

    From Roscommon?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Without knowing it, I'm sure we all meet people of different faiths and none on a day to day basis.
    Crock Rock wrote: »
    So are the majority of Irish Jews of German or Central European descent who were escaping Hitler's persecution?
    Precious few would fit this description, given DeVelera's bigotry.
    Aegir wrote: »
    I’ve got some very good friends here in Dublin that are Jewish.

    As they don’t go around talking Hebrew
    Yiddish (somewhat similar to German) would be the traditional language of Jewish people in Ireland.
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Paltrow isn't officially Jewish, her dad is but you need to have a Jewish mom to be officially Jewish, her mother is Christian
    I understand that children of non-Jewish mothers can convert and 'officially; become Jewish.
    Manny Stein lived close by us off Clanbrassil Street. Lovely man anyway. His wife was Sylvia and the daughter was/is Freya.

    Anyone remember them whether involved with the bakery or not. Often wondered about them after we moved on.

    How would you find out. Not being nosy, but curious.
    Drop a line to the synagogues. given that they are small communities, someone will know someone.
    I kind of think its weird after all this time they never had an Irish Rabbi lets say on the Late Late.

    Say around the time of the lighting of the menorah in Dublin for Hanukah etc.
    That might be complicated, by the timing of the Late Late on the Shabbat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat "According to halakha (Jewish religious law), Shabbat is observed from a few minutes before sunset on Friday evening until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night."


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Victor wrote: »
    Without knowing it, I'm sure we all meet people of different faiths and none on a day to day basis.Yiddish (somewhat similar to German) would be the traditional language of Jewish people in Ireland.

    I understand that children of non-Jewish mothers can convert and 'officially; become Jewish.

    Drop a line to the synagogues. given that they are small communities, someone will know someone.

    Yes but Yiddish today is declining. Hebrew is what people want their kids to speak or to learn. They have to learn biblical hebrew anyway but modern hebrew is different. Older people and very religious communities have a lot of Yiddish though.

    Irish jews also spoke a lot of other languages depending on where they were from.

    In reform judaism (there is a reform congregation here) if you have a father or mother who is jewish you are jewish if you are raised jewish.

    You can be officially converted as a child or a baby in orthodox judaism if you are going to be raised in a jewish family.

    They might not just give out info about someone. Safety.


  • Registered Users Posts: 78,218 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    They might not just give out info about someone. Safety.
    Sure. You give them your information and someone can contact you, not the other way around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Victor wrote: »
    Sure. You give them your information and someone can contact you, not the other way around.
    mmm nope.

    They probably won't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    sweet_trip wrote: »
    My great grandfather was around during the civil war era and the IRA etc........


    I distinctly remember him telling me also about how the Jews were often burnt out of it and ran out of town by the Irish at the time as some of the IRA were quite supportive of Hitler.


    Somebody please correct me because I'm terrible with Irish history, and not sure if it was actually the IRA or opposing sides who were responsible for this.

    You sure are! For a start, the Irish Civil War ended about 10 years before Hitler came to power in Germany. In fact it ended around about the time Hitler attempted his first chaotic "beer hall putsch" in Munich in 1923 when a gang of comedians in a bar claimed to be taking over control of the Bavarian government (it was just the drink talking really) but they were quickly subdued by local police and Hitler was carted off to prison for a few years.

    I seriously doubt if too many people from outside Germany had heard of him by then. Certainly not the IRA.

    There was a notorious incident in Limerick in around 1904 when newly arrived Jews were run out of town by a combination of clothes shop owners, unhappy at being undercut by goddamn immigrants coming over here and stealing their business, and local catholics whipped into a frenzy about moneylenders and Christ killers by a local loony priest.

    But that was probably the only serious outbreak of organised anti Semitism in Ireland prior to independence. Actually, many of the independence leaders were very sympathetic to Jews and indeed to Zionism. Especially in the early days. O'Connell did much to bring in Jewish emancipation legislation in Britain, and Michael Davitt was a committed Zionist. De Valera too was very close to the Herzogs, the patriarch of whom was Chief Rabbi for a time.
    sweet_trip wrote: »
    He also told me of how some captured brits were executed in the most gruesome manner. Made to step on landmines.

    Sounds like the Ballyseede Massacre, which was actually during the Civil War, and was perpetrated by Free State forces on Republican prisoners.


  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    You sure are! For a start, the Irish Civil War ended about 10 years before Hitler came to power in Germany. In fact it ended around about the time Hitler attempted his first chaotic "beer hall putsch" in Munich in 1923 when a gang of comedians in a bar claimed to be taking over control of the Bavarian government (it was just the drink talking really) but they were quickly subdued by local police and Hitler was carted off to prison for a few years.

    I seriously doubt if too many people from outside Germany had heard of him by then. Certainly not the IRA.

    There was a notorious incident in Limerick in around 1904 when newly arrived Jews were run out of town by a combination of clothes shop owners, unhappy at being undercut by goddamn immigrants coming over here and stealing their business, and local catholics whipped into a frenzy about moneylenders and Christ killers by a local loony priest.

    But that was probably the only serious outbreak of organised anti Semitism in Ireland prior to independence. Actually, many of the independence leaders were very sympathetic to Jews and indeed to Zionism. Especially in the early days. O'Connell did much to bring in Jewish emancipation legislation in Britain, and Michael Davitt was a committed Zionist. De Valera too was very close to the Herzogs, the patriarch of whom was Chief Rabbi for a time.



    Sounds like the Ballyseede Massacre, which was actually during the Civil War, and was perpetrated by Free State forces on Republican prisoners.


    The IRA in the north supported Hitler. As did old IRA men in the south.

    Their reasoning was he opposed the UK

    Sean Russell had close links to hitler.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/sean-russell-statue-3549072-Aug2017/


    They did indeed collab with the nazis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_collaboration_in_World_War_II


    https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/review-the-devils-deal-the-ira-and-nazi-germany-by-david-odonoghue-26605630.html


    The ex-IRA man who died a Nazi collaborator

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/the-ex-ira-man-who-died-a-nazi-collaborator-183940.html

    I think its why SF still hate Jews and Israelis with such anger. They were always so susceptible to propaganda.

    The IRA at the time were very naive they didn't realize germans were sending agents to infiltrate them ..just like they don't realize the british did in the troubles or other foreign agents...

    Francis Stuart Stephen Hayes Frank ryan etc were also involved.

    Sean Russell was IRA chief of staff and Stephen Hayes was on the IRA army counsel.

    Contacts and deep involvement with the NAZIS was at the highest level within the IRA.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    The IRA in the north supported Hitler. As did old IRA men in the south.

    Their reasoning was he opposed the UK
    Sean Russell had close links to hitler.
    https://www.thejournal.ie/sean-russell-statue-3549072-Aug2017/
    They did indeed collab with the nazis.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army_%E2%80%93_Abwehr_collaboration_in_World_War_II

    https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/review-the-devils-deal-the-ira-and-nazi-germany-by-david-odonoghue-26605630.html

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/viewpoints/analysis/the-ex-ira-man-who-died-a-nazi-collaborator-183940.html

    I think its why SF still hate Jews and Israelis with such anger. They were always so susceptible to propaganda.
    The IRA at the time were very naive they didn't realize germans were sending agents to infiltrate them ..just like they don't realize the british did in the troubles or other foreign agents...
    Francis Stuart Stephen Hayes Frank ryan etc were also involved.
    Sean Russell was IRA chief of staff and Stephen Hayes was on the IRA army counsel.
    Contacts and deep involvement with the NAZIS was at the highest level within the IRA.

    In addition to the Chief Rabbi's Isaac Herzog and his support of "the First Dáil and the Irish republican cause during the Irish War of Independence, and who became known as "the Sinn Féin Rabbi" as detailed previously - there is this regarding the Jewish communities links with the founding of the Irish state & etc -
    War of Independence

    Many Irish Jews supported the Irish Republican Army (IRA) and the First Dail during the Irish War of Independence. Michael Noyk was a Lithuanian-born solicitor who became famous for defending captured Irish Republicans such as Sean MacEoin. Robert Briscoe was a prominent member of the IRA during the Irish War of Independence and the Irish Civil War. He was sent by Michael Collinsto Germany in 1920 to be the chief agent for procuring arms for the IRA. Briscoe proved to be highly successful at this mission, and arms arrived in Ireland in spite of the British blockade.

    Irish Free State Senate

    In an effort to provide minority communities with political representation in parliament (as was the case with minority Christian denominations) Ellen Cuffe (Countess of Desart), a member of the Jewish community, was appointed for a twelve-year term by W. T. Cosgrave to the Irish Senate in 1922. She sat as an independent member until her death in 1933. She was also an advocate for the Irish language and served as President of the Gaelic League.

    Irish Government

    The Irish Constitution of 1937 specifically gave constitutional protection to Jews. This was considered to be a necessary component to the constitution by Éamon de Valerabecause of the treatment of Jews elsewhere in Europe at the time.

    The reference to the Jewish Congregations in the Irish Constitution was removed in 1973 with the Fifth Amendment. The same amendment removed the 'special position' of the Catholic Church, as well as references to the Church of Ireland, the Presbyterian Church, the Methodist Church, and the Religious Society of Friends.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Ireland


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,733 ✭✭✭Duckworth_Luas


    Robert Briscoe was a prominent member of Fianna Fail who became a TD and was twice the Lord Mayor of Dublin.

    It was in the latter role that he famously visited New York in the 1950s.

    The idea of an Irish Jew was both confusing and fascinating for New Yorkers who would have considered both as distinct groups. To a New Yorker you could be Irish or Jewish but not both.

    He was greeted by large crowds at his public appearances.

    Upon hearing of a Jewish mayor of Dublin Yogi Berra famously said, "only in America!".

    Here is Briscoe appearing on What's My Line, an American prime-time panel show in the 1960s.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Victor wrote: »

    That might be complicated, by the timing of the Late Late on the Shabbat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat "According to halakha (Jewish religious law), Shabbat is observed from a few minutes before sunset on Friday evening until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night."


    Pre-record something.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    gozunda wrote: »
    In addition to the Chief Rabbi's Isaac Herzog and his support of "the First Dáil and the Irish republican cause during the Irish War of Independence, and who became known as "the Sinn Féin Rabbi" as detailed previously - there is this regarding the Jewish communities links with the founding of the Irish state & etc -



    Yeah I know. Kind of makes what the IRA did even more disgusting really doesn't it?


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