Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

Lesalare · 09-10-2019 11:55pm

topper75 wrote: »

Question still remains to be answered though. Why nobody years ago? Why is this thing popping up in a single generation. Bit weird. I don't get it at all. If you are descended from European hunter gatherers, nuts were a key part of their diet, especially hazel here in Ireland. If you have Euro farmer blood in you then I have no idea how you could be lactose intolerant. Our people have herded cattle and other livestock that produce milk and consumed the output for literally millennia. For either 'allergy' to be the case for an Irish kid they would have to be an absolute sideshow.
Foreigners get an out on this.

You're getting wheat/gluten/lactose intolerance/IBS, TOTALLY mixed up with a peanut allergy.

[Deleted User] · 09-10-2019 11:56pm

be great if we could speak around the general question without one side acting as if by simply discussing it we had in fact physically driven to their house and started flinging nuts at a seriously allergic child

Princess Calla · 09-10-2019 11:58pm

Gatling wrote: »

That nonsense you put up looking for thanks and likes .

Yes, cos thanks and likes make my day!

I really don't get why people have an issue on this.

Is giving your child nuts as part of their lunch really so important to you that you're willing to put another child's life at risk?

Do you really feel that entitled?

Raconteuse · 09-10-2019 11:59pm

Gatling wrote: »

That nonsense you put up looking for thanks and likes .

Why would that be the only reason they post it?

Gatling · 10-10-2019 12:00am

Princess Calla wrote: »

Is giving your child nuts as part of their lunch really so important to you that you're willing to put another child's life at risk?

Do you really feel that entitled?

Who said I give my kids nuts ,

Making crap up how original

Stoner · 10-10-2019 12:03am

My young child's new school has a nut ban.

It's really not an issue. No sweets allowed anyway.

Gatling · 10-10-2019 12:04am

Raconteuse wrote: »

Why would that be the only reason they post it?

Did you actually read the post - if you have any experience in education settings and believe that would actually happen a child being directly blamed and ostracised for causing the death of another child .

Thanks whoring is what it is .

All I have said is that you can't provide a 100% sterile environment for children and adults with allergies and that's considered trolling ,

Smart Bug · 10-10-2019 12:06am

screamer wrote: »

Have you ever had an anaphylactic reaction? I have, so let me share. Your body shuts down you can’t breathe you can’t think your limbs don’t work you vomit you turn bright red, you can’t stand anymore, your legs don’t work, confusion sets in, and you accept you’re going to die as your body starts to shut down. If you have an epi pen and someone to administer it, it buys you time to get to hospital and you’re put into resuss with a crash cart in case your heart stops, strapped to drips and monitored for hours whilst your body is wracked by this reaction.

Now imagine that happens to a child. As an adult you can’t even inject yourself such is the instant chain reaction set off in your body.

A nut ban is a small ask for people who can literally die because of anaphylactic shock. It’s not an allergy it’s life or death and really unless you’ve had this near death experience yourself, you can’t imagine and hope you never have to.

Thanks for the share. I’ve had 3 this year, peanuts, cashews and coriander (of all ****ing things). 39yo & the closest I came to allergic reactions before this year was mild hayfever (which is now chronic).

The mass stupidity, brutish ignorance and lack of basic empathy of some of the posters on here should astonish me, but sadly doesn’t anymore.

Princess Calla · 10-10-2019 12:07am

Gatling wrote: »

Who said I give my kids nuts ,

Making crap up how original

So what is your stance?

I've made mine very clear.

You called me on labelling one poster a troll even though I didn't name them, there have been many contributors to the thread. Why is there an issue of me suggesting one is a troll?

Smart Bug · 10-10-2019 12:12am

Raconteuse wrote: »

What are the quote marks about? These allergies do exist. I don't know why we didn't hear about them as much years ago but what is the actual point people are trying to make when they keep saying that? It doesn't change that they exist and are potentially fatal so let's take whatever measures are necessary.

Or don't and risk the life of someone with a peanut allergy.

This is the kind of ruse stupid people hide behind when they’re actually saying things along the lines of “it’s all made up, I know better than you snowflakes, nobody really dies from allergies, It’s all just a fad”

Princess Calla · 10-10-2019 12:14am

Gatling wrote: »

Did you actually read the post - if you have any experience in education settings and believe that would actually happen a child being directly blamed and ostracised for causing the death of another child .

Thanks whoring is what it is .

All I have said is that you can't provide a 100% sterile environment for children and adults with allergies and that's considered trolling ,

Can you 100% say that a child wouldn't be ostracised or wouldn't suffer some fall out? I certainly can't and I don't want to test the theory with my own children.

There's also a huge difference between a sterile environment and packing a trailmix into your kids lunchbox.

Gatling · 10-10-2019 12:21am

Princess Calla wrote: »

Can you 100% say that a child wouldn't be ostracised or wouldn't suffer some fall out?

Yes I can .

That's like saying a child who isn't immunised gets sick and dies due to an underlying illnes because another child came to school sick ,

The child wouldn't be cast out or blamed how could you even think that

[Deleted User] · 10-10-2019 12:26am

out of interest, could you trust other parents not to pack the wrong thing if your child was in such danger?

i wouldnt. half of people are complete feckless incompetents and three days after reading a leaflet i wouldnt bet two cents on them retaining what was and wasnt a danger to someone elses child

if the allergy is so serious the insistence on a school environment seems a poor priority.

in the event of a terrible outcome, what would people see as the culpability on the parent who packed the wrong thing?

would anyone be to blame, morally or legally?

khalessi · 10-10-2019 12:30am

Deleted User wrote: »

out of interest, could you trust other parents not to pack the wrong thing if your child was in such danger?

i wouldnt. half of people are complete feckless incompetents and three days after reading a leaflet i wouldnt bet two cents on them retaining what was and wasnt a danger to someone elses child

if the allergy is so serious the insistence on a school environment seems a poor priority.

in the event of a terrible outcome, what would people see as the culpability on the parent who packed the wrong thing?

would anyone be to blame, morally or legally?

Honestly, I would trust them as there is a newsletter that goes out weekly with a reminder about healthy eating policy including list of banned foods. Also their children wouldn't allow it. They shop themselves and each other for having wrong food as they know the importance of not bringing certain foods to school. Then the wrong food issue is dealt wiht by the teachers quickly an defficiently so no harm no foul

Princess Calla · 10-10-2019 12:41am

Gatling wrote: »

Yes I can .

That's like saying a child who isn't immunised gets sick and dies due to an underlying illnes because another child came to school sick ,

The child wouldn't be cast out or blamed how could you even think that

No it's not, illness happens there's bugs and viruses everywhere.

Actually you are quite correct, it's not the childs fault, I do apologise for suggesting that a child could be blamed.

If you as an adult, in full knowledge of a nut ban in your child's school, pack nuts into your child's lunchbox, resulting in the death of another child, you are the one to blame. You are the one that should be held accountable.

iamwhoiam · 10-10-2019 9:34am

Smart Bug wrote: »

Thanks for the share. I’ve had 3 this year, peanuts, cashews and coriander (of all ****ing things). 39yo & the closest I came to allergic reactions before this year was mild hayfever (which is now chronic).

The mass stupidity, brutish ignorance and lack of basic empathy of some of the posters on here should astonish me, but sadly doesn’t anymore.

I had two in the space of two months in my late 50's . I didnt know what caused the first one and took the same trigger a second time .Only becuase it was a common denominator did we realise what had caused it .,My trigger was a medication with a gastric coating on it and so the symptoms were delayed by 2 hours causing the confusion . I had taken that medication often throughout my life and one random Tuesday it caused a massive anaphylaxis . I was resuscitated , intubated and ventilated only because my neighbour drove me to a hospital only 10 minutes away .
The second time two Epipens kept me alive till I reached the hospital
For the ignorant on this thread i could write about the sheer terror and the horror in my head as I felt my life slipping away and hear an anaesthetist roaring for an instrument but it wont help the ignorant or the trolls unfortunately as they have not seen the hell a child could suffer .
No one who has could write such ignorant posts( I hope) .

Princess Calla · 10-10-2019 10:33am

Gatling wrote: »

Did you actually read the post - if you have any experience in education settings and believe that would actually happen a child being directly blamed and ostracised for causing the death of another child .

Thanks whoring is what it is .

All I have said is that you can't provide a 100% sterile environment for children and adults with allergies and that's considered trolling ,

Who accused you of trolling?

I certainly didn't, I said there was in my opinion one poster who was a troll. If you took that up as me pointing the finger at you that's not my fault.

[Deleted User] · 10-10-2019 10:36am

Princess Calla wrote: »

If you as an adult, in full knowledge of a nut ban in your child's school, pack nuts into your child's lunchbox, resulting in the death of another child, you are the one to blame. You are the one that should be held accountable.

to what extent?

and how about the responsibility of the child with the dangerous allergy's parents?

i have to disagree with you completely tbh.

if a specific child has specific needs or subject to specific significant risk factors i sympathise but its ridiculous to demand full inclusion and accept none of those risks.

theres a balance

[Deleted User] · 10-10-2019 10:40am

We must consult our harbinger of morality on this issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEb5a-I0kyg

TheBoyConor · 10-10-2019 10:45am

It's because of the way children are brought up now that we have all these allergies. Kids these days are allergic to loads of things that was unheard of years ago. Nowadays kids are brought up in near sterile environments and their immune system doesn't acclimatise to various compounds and microbes and so becomes hypersensitive when they are exposed, often the hypersensitivity extends to common foods.
Whereas years ago, and when I was small in the 90's, kids were outside running about, growing up on farms and out in fields getting covered in muck and cow****, dust from hay and fields. I never heard of any of my rural friends or family having an allergy. It simply didn't exist in anywhere near the same numbers. And there were no such thing as creches when I was small. It was all a good clean(or not so clean) country upbringing. Plenty exposure to the aforementioned good clean dirt.

Nowadays loads of kids have severe allergies and they nearly all have a common background - non-rural upbringing by stressed parents. They are ferried everywhere and spend a good chunk of their young lives cattle herded into creches and preschools. It's all the environment, the excessive amount of cleaning and disinfection agents and the stressful conditions that kids are raised in nowadays. The muck junk food probably doesn't help either.

cj maxx · 10-10-2019 10:49am

Stoner wrote: »

My young child's new school has a nut ban.

It's really not an issue. No sweets allowed anyway.

Exactly. Same in my children's school. Really no big deal not sending nuts with them

NIMAN · 10-10-2019 10:49am

partyjungle wrote: »

We must consult our harbinger of morality on this issue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEb5a-I0kyg

If you are taking your morality from that guy!!

" .... in 2017 Louis CK admitted to several incidents of sexual misconduct which involved him masturbating in front of women".

[Deleted User] · 10-10-2019 10:52am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It's because of the way children are brought up now that we have all these allergies. Kids these days are allergic to loads of things that was unheard of years ago. Nowadays kids are brought up in near sterile environments and their immune system doesn't acclimatise to various compounds and microbes and so becomes hypersensitive when they are exposed, often the hypersensitivity extends to common foods.
Whereas years ago, and when I was small in the 90's, kids were outside running about, growing up on farms and out in fields getting covered in muck and cow****, dust from hay and fields. I never heard of any of my rural friends or family having an allergy. It simply didn't exist in anywhere near the same numbers. And there were no such thing as creches when I was small. It was all a good clean(or not so clean) country upbringing. Plenty exposure to the aforementioned good clean dirt.

Nowadays loads of kids have severe allergies and they nearly all have a common background - non-rural upbringing by stressed parents. They are ferried everywhere and spend a good chunk of their young lives cattle herded into creches and preschools. It's all the environment, the excessive amount of cleaning and disinfection agents and the stressful conditions that kids are raised in nowadays. The muck junk food probably doesn't help either.

Is this correlation a genuine causation? Or is this your opinion?

Princess Calla · 10-10-2019 10:53am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

to what extent?

and how about the responsibility of the child with the dangerous allergy's parents?

i have to disagree with you completely tbh.

if a specific child has specific needs or subject to specific significant risk factors i sympathise but its ridiculous to demand full inclusion and accept none of those risks.

theres a balance

So you would happily pack nuts into your child's lunchbox when there are literally 100's of alternatives?

If a child dies so be it. It's their fault /parents fault for sending them to school in the first place.

Raconteuse · 10-10-2019 10:55am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

It's because of the way children are brought up now that we have all these allergies. Kids these days are allergic to loads of things that was unheard of years ago. Nowadays kids are brought up in near sterile environments and their immune system doesn't acclimatise to various compounds and microbes and so becomes hypersensitive when they are exposed, often the hypersensitivity extends to common foods.
Whereas years ago, and when I was small in the 90's, kids were outside running about, growing up on farms and out in fields getting covered in muck and cow****, dust from hay and fields. I never heard of any of my rural friends or family having an allergy. It simply didn't exist in anywhere near the same numbers. And there were no such thing as creches when I was small. It was all a good clean(or not so clean) country upbringing. Plenty exposure to the aforementioned good clean dirt.

Nowadays loads of kids have severe allergies and they nearly all have a common background - non-rural upbringing by stressed parents. They are ferried everywhere and spend a good chunk of their young lives cattle herded into creches and preschools. It's all the environment, the excessive amount of cleaning and disinfection agents and the stressful conditions that kids are raised in nowadays. The muck junk food probably doesn't help either.

Where is your evidence for this? And "opinion" doesn't count. It's either the case or it isn't.

Only the 90s? Thought you were gonna say 60s or 70s. It's around the 90s that nut allergies became recognised.

Hayfever affected and affects rural kids.

This "back in mah day" Monty Python Four Yorkshiremen stuff from people in their 20s/early 30s is hilarious.

People were saying kids were mollycoddled in the 90s too.

looksee · 10-10-2019 11:04am

As I said before, while there are/is awareness of a lot of allergies now, it isn't necessarily true that they did not always exist. There has always been the possibility of a 'frail' child in a family, and many children died young without always an accurate diagnosis. I had an uncle - he would have been in his late 90s now if he had lived - who had a 'weak chest'. He had asthma, and if I recall correctly many potential soldiers in WWII were not accepted because they were asthmatic.

As the general health of the population improves and health services improve (and they have, despite complaints about health services) we become more aware of illnesses and issues and expect higher and higher standards, so that allergies are identified and named, unlike past situations where they were ignored and the person more or less had to put up with it, or mysteriously died of unspecified causes.

AulWan · 10-10-2019 11:06am

I think it would be quite easy for a parent to genuinely make a mistake and send in something that could trigger an allergy.

Many items will themselves be nut free, and a parent may assume its safe, but if you look on the food label it will say "produced in the same factory as nut products" meaning there could be traces or cross-contamination. I assume that means these items have to be excluded too?
I don't think anywhere can be guaranteed 100% nut free, when allergens can be airborne.

Also, a kid might have had nutella on toast for breakfast, not wash their hands, and boom - classmate's allergy triggered by a touch from something eaten at home.

Princess Calla · 10-10-2019 11:18am

AulWan wrote: »

I think it would be quite easy for a parent to genuinely make a mistake and send in something that could trigger an allergy.

Many items will themselves be nut free, and a parent may assume its safe, but if you look on the food label it will say "produced in the same factory as nut products" meaning there could be traces or cross-contamination. I assume that means these items have to be excluded too?
I don't think anywhere can be guaranteed 100% nut free, when allergens can be airborne.

Also, a kid might have had nutella on toast for breakfast, not wash their hands, and boom - classmate's allergy triggered by a touch from something eaten at home.

Yes of course genuine mistakes can happen.

However sending your child into school with a packet of peanuts, walnuts, hazelnuts etc isn't a mistake.

Infairness even without a ban I would be hesitant to send nuts to school as they are a choking hazard and I remember the amount of horseplay I got upto at lunch time and I was considered a quiet child. So I wouldn't risk it from that point of view.

Factories put loads of disclaimers on packaging to distance themselves from legal claims.

topper75 · 10-10-2019 11:18am

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

What are you talking about?

I'm saying if you are Irish - as in all your forebears lived here going way back, you just simply should not be allergic to nuts, or milk for that matter. Nobody in Southern China is allergic to rice. It's puzzling that such freakish Irish kids exist and it is doubly puzzling that it all happens in just the last decade or two.

I was schooled in the 80s and 90s. In primary 200 kids with me. 600 in secondary. Wider circle of peers out of school in clubs etc. easily another 200. Not one person in those groups (stat. significant sample size of 1000) had any kind of reaction to eating nuts. This is new stuff here. Why?

Ave Sodalis · 10-10-2019 11:24am

TheBoyConor wrote:

It's because of the way children are brought up now that we have all these allergies. Kids these days are allergic to loads of things that was unheard of years ago. Nowadays kids are brought up in near sterile environments and their immune system doesn't acclimatise to various compounds and microbes and so becomes hypersensitive when they are exposed, often the hypersensitivity extends to common foods. Whereas years ago, and when I was small in the 90's, kids were outside running about, growing up on farms and out in fields getting covered in muck and cow****, dust from hay and fields. I never heard of any of my rural friends or family having an allergy. It simply didn't exist in anywhere near the same numbers. And there were no such thing as creches when I was small. It was all a good clean(or not so clean) country upbringing. Plenty exposure to the aforementioned good clean dirt.

When I was small in the 90s, also growing up in a rural setting, parents were being taught that kids shouldn't get peanuts until later as it would increase their chances of developing an allergy. Creches and playschool were a thing. Whilst rolling around in the muck is good for kids, your post is not relevant at all to the topic at hand.

Should nuts in school be banned for the small % who have "nut allergies"

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