Workshop heating.

kadman · 11-01-2021 1:41pm #1

AS the title says workshop heating.

What do you guys have. At the moment I have an old small stove,
thats not really doing the job for my large workshop.

Its about 40'x30'. I am looking for an option thats cheap enough to run.
I am considering a diesel/ kerosene heater, but not sure on its running costs.

So I would appreciate your input lads and lassies.:)

Thankyou,
K.

magicbastarder · 11-01-2021 1:45pm

nothing. i have a bare roof too (felt on WBP, bare joists underneath), so the first thing i need to do is get some cheap foam insulation and friction fit it.
tiny shed compared to yours though, i think 13'x6'.

kadman · 11-01-2021 2:17pm

My shed is 6"block uninsulated, and the roof is corrugated sheeting.

Not badly sealed around, but could be better.

I just priced a multi solid fuel stove from UK,2k plus the vat and 400 euro delivery,

and god only knows what tax and customs I could be hit with on arrival. So thats a non runner.

magicbastarder · 11-01-2021 2:42pm

i've seen (in youtube videos!) stoves which run on the shavings for the workshop floor, but they're going to be specialist and not cheap, i suspect.

An Ri rua · 11-01-2021 2:46pm

Would you not build yourself a DIY Masonry heater or a rocket mass heater? Would be well within your capabilities I'd imagine.
Along with a bit of insulation, it would be the common-sense way to heat your space.

I experimented with using storage heater bricks to soak up the heat of an open fire and it was impressive.
You could try storage heater bricks all around that stove, would be s cheap upgrade for now. But really, a rocket mass heater together with cob or masonry bricks would be a good job.

I use paraffin heaters for the past 10 years. You can run them quite cheaply on Kero. But thats is fumier than using paraffin/ROLF. Currently, I use Tozane (ROLF) in a home office large caravan. I wouldn't use kero in this situation but have done so in a large well ventilated room.

kil · 11-01-2021 2:47pm

How about this:
https://www.coopsuperstores.ie/Boru-Craftsman-Workshop-Stove-1774233

An Ri rua · 11-01-2021 2:55pm

kil wrote: »

How about this:
https://www.coopsuperstores.ie/Boru-Craftsman-Workshop-Stove-1774233

That looks excellent for a VAT inclusive job from a top brand. Good spot!

kil · 11-01-2021 2:57pm

An Ri rua wrote: »

That looks excellent for a VAT inclusive job from a top brand. Good spot!

All I'm missing is a workshop to put it into :mad:

Calahonda52 · 11-01-2021 3:35pm

Whatever u use should not increase the vapour load in the garage ... you know this anyway so

40 by 30 is a small house, am assuming the apex is two storey so best to think about insulation and infrared heating.
Get good boots if the floor is cold and some decent thermal clothing

Say, in meters, 11 by 9 by 3 high
so wall area is 120m2
say roof area is another 100
so (220 area by 2.0 U value by 14 delta T) = 6,160 W design load plus same again for ventilation losses so about design heat load is about 12,000 watts or 120W/m2 of floor area

kadman · 11-01-2021 4:52pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Whatever u use should not increase the vapour load in the garage ... you know this anyway so

40 by 30 is a small house, am assuming the apex is two storey so best to think about insulation and infrared heating.
Get good boots if the floor is cold and some decent thermal clothing

Say, in meters, 11 by 9 by 3 high
so wall area is 120m2
say roof area is another 100
so (220 area by 2.0 U value by 14 delta T) = 6,160 W design load plus same again for ventilation losses so about design heat load is about 12,000 watts or 120W/m2 of floor area

Never considered infra red heating to be honest. Looks like google will be busy later this evening:)

How cost effective is infra red heating. Insulation is gonna be a headache due to the fact of all the machinery and car classics in the place. Have to go overkill on the heater to accommodate for this if i have to..

All in all a diesel space heater would be the quickest and mobile to boot. But I want to check the running costs first.

I have seen some garage portable 3kw fan heaters, but not sure of the running costs yet, so will check that out.

Thanks for the input chaps

magicbastarder · 11-01-2021 6:10pm

kadman wrote: »

I have seen some garage portable 3kw fan heaters, but not sure of the running costs yet, so will check that out.

i'd assume 60c or thereabouts per hour?

Calahonda52 · 11-01-2021 6:44pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

i'd assume 60c or thereabouts per hour?

Yep that about right.
I would be concerned more about the loss of warm air than insulation.
One of my clients has gas fired radiant tube IR heating in a 5 bay garage, the doors are open most of the time.

monkeynuz · 12-01-2021 11:38am

kil wrote: »

How about this:
https://www.coopsuperstores.ie/Boru-Craftsman-Workshop-Stove-1774233

I was actually about to link the same one, I saw it recently and wondered about it for myself although you need to consider the added cost of flue etc which can more than double the cost of the stove.

For now I’ve just bought a fan heater for my smallish workshop as I’m not in there much at the moment, I often wondered about contacting plumbers in the area for an outdated boiler being replaced and just adding some radiators.

kadman · 12-01-2021 11:57am

monkeynuz wrote: »

I was actually about to link the same one, I saw it recently and wondered about it for myself although you need to consider the added cost of flue etc which can more than double the cost of the stove.

For now I’ve just bought a fan heater for my smallish workshop as I’m not in there much at the moment, I often wondered about contacting plumbers in the area for an outdated boiler being replaced and just adding some radiators.

I had a look at that link yesterday. But size wise its relatively small, just over 2 feet tall. So I doubt that will heat my requirements.

I have so many ideas from you guys that I am on google overload at the moment.:)

kadman · 12-01-2021 11:59am

I could go the boiler route and just do a domestic central heating setup
same as my own house. But I really dont want that level of work if there is a more reasonable option.

Testacalda · 12-01-2021 12:04pm

kadman wrote: »

I am considering a diesel/ kerosene heater, but not sure on its running costs

I have a 50,000 BTU Diesel heater, Running it on Kero bought from the pump at 76c per litre, it burns 0.9 litres per hour, so not that costly really.

I only use it a few hours at a time to blow heat where I'm working. My garage is uninsulated also, so obviously a waste of energy trying to heat it.
Only thing is it may not be great for a woodworking workshop. Fumes from it not noticeable in my garage, but it's not for enclosed use

Can't say I was cold in there last week though. Overalls, latex gloves and a decent jacket helps a lot. The gloves make a huge difference, even though you wouldn't think it.

https://www.craigmoreonline.ie/sip-09560-fireball-50xd-space-heater-diesel

Calahonda52 · 12-01-2021 12:58pm

the problem is excess moisture from the combustion as well as the fumes, the excess moisture will condense on tools etc ......

kadman · 12-01-2021 1:02pm

Testacalda wrote: »

I have a 50,000 BTU Diesel heater, Running it on Kero bought from the pump at 76c per litre, it burns 0.9 litres per hour, so not that costly really.

I only use it a few hours at a time to blow heat where I'm working. My garage is uninsulated also, so obviously a waste of energy trying to heat it.
Only thing is it may not be great for a woodworking workshop. Fumes from it not noticeable in my garage, but it's not for enclosed use

Can't say I was cold in there last week though. Overalls, latex gloves and a decent jacket helps a lot. The gloves make a huge difference, even though you wouldn't think it.

https://www.craigmoreonline.ie/sip-09560-fireball-50xd-space-heater-diesel

Bit surprised its not recommended for enclosed use, yet listed for garages, workshops, ect.

Are the fumes noticeable at all, or is it the carbon monoxide thats the issue for enclosed areas, Thanks,

K.

An Ri rua · 12-01-2021 1:21pm

kadman wrote: »

Bit surprised its not recommended for enclosed use, yet listed for garages, workshops, ect.

Are the fumes noticeable at all, or is it the carbon monoxide thats the issue for enclosed areas, Thanks,

K.

Carbon monoxide is an issue no matter what combustible is used. There is no difference, that I'm aware of between burning paraffin or kerosene in an enclosed space. Apart from the sulphurous smell from kero. Which is marginal if you add Dipetane.
Fuel burned incorrectly, eg diesel in a kero burner or vice versa, would be dangerous as the jets need to be optimised for either.

I use 2 CO detectors with my paraffin Inverter heater. One inbuilt, one portable. An inverter is direct injection evaporation so good kero gets burned optimally.

An Ri rua · 12-01-2021 1:25pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

the problem is excess moisture from the combustion as well as the fumes, the excess moisture will condense on tools etc ......

Gas certainly creates moisture but I haven't found that to be so with rolf paraffin, in all of my years using it. That includes using air moisture meters and also damp meters in a caravan office. Although I used to use the paraffin heater in tandem with either electric or an Ecograte (convected dry air) so that likely nullified the moisture issue.
Do you think paraffin also can create moisture issues? Thanks.

Testacalda · 12-01-2021 2:46pm

kadman wrote: »

Are the fumes noticeable at all

No, you get a bit of that TVO smell on first switching it on but that's it. no issue with fumes at all. My garage is 47 x 30.

Calahonda52 · 12-01-2021 10:32pm

An Ri rua wrote: »

Gas certainly creates moisture but I haven't found that to be so with rolf paraffin, in all of my years using it. That includes using air moisture meters and also damp meters in a caravan office. Although I used to use the paraffin heater in tandem with either electric or an Ecograte (convected dry air) so that likely nullified the moisture issue.
Do you think paraffin also can create moisture issues? Thanks.

You cant deny the science of an exothermic reaction

Any fuel +oxygen = carbon dioxide and water in the form of water vapour
Dirty paraffin will give out SOx and NOx and if the burn is not perfect CO as well as CO2

magicbastarder · 12-01-2021 10:40pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

You cant deny the science of an exothermic reaction

Any fuel +oxygen = carbon dioxide and water in the form of water vapour

not *any* fuel though? with hydrocarbons, yes, but with coal there's no H to form water.

and much less H in the likes of wood than there is in diesel.

gctest50 · 12-01-2021 10:44pm

Indirect space heaters are available, leaves the exhaust fumes outside

https://www.crosshireservices.ie/product/red-star-30-oil-fired-indirect-heater/

kadman · 12-01-2021 10:56pm

gctest50 wrote: »

Indirect space heaters are available, leaves the exhaust fumes outside

https://www.crosshireservices.ie/product/red-star-30-oil-fired-indirect-heater/

Good, but I cant help thinking 2.7 litres an hour would be an expensive option.

gctest50 · 12-01-2021 11:10pm

kadman wrote: »

Good, but I cant help thinking 2.7 litres an hour would be an expensive option.

That one ia about 30kW though

You should find smaller ones if you nose around

https://www.heatersuk.com/kroll-mak15-14-5kw-52-000btu-230v-oil-fired-indirect-space-heater.html

gctest50 · 12-01-2021 11:16pm

Or you could get one of these and connect to it to an ordinary boiler :

https://www.donedeal.ie/heating-for-sale/high-output-fan-heater-commercial-volume/23842248

kadman · 13-01-2021 12:54am

gctest50 wrote: »

Or you could get one of these and connect to it to an ordinary boiler :

https://www.donedeal.ie/heating-for-sale/high-output-fan-heater-commercial-volume/23842248

I saw them before and i think its a great bit of kit. Its an option, I could put a flue boiler on my existing workshop stove and run that from it.

An Ri rua · 13-01-2021 1:14am

Calahonda52 wrote: »

You cant deny the science of an exothermic reaction

Any fuel +oxygen = carbon dioxide and water in the form of water vapour
Dirty paraffin will give out SOx and NOx and if the burn is not perfect CO as well as CO2

Far be it from me to deny the science of an exothermic reaction. We were raised not to.

Who buys or burns dirty paraffin though? I use Rolf or else kero treated with Dipetane. Combined with a secondary dry heat source, eh electric or convected wood burner, moisture was a non issue. No exothermic reactions were harmed or caused in making this statement.

jeepers101 · 13-01-2021 6:48am

I have an air to air heat pump. It’s the job, heats the place up very quickly and is efficient. Also have the option to cool if it’s one of the four days in the year it’s needed.

The units themselves aren’t hugely expensive (start around €400) but professional installation can cost three times that. It would be better if you know someone in the air conditioning trade to either do it for you or lend you the tools.

kadman · 13-01-2021 9:50am

For an air to heat pump I would have to install a wet central heating system in my shed would i not??

Workshop heating.

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