Burning the Poppy - A thread.

Letwin_Larry · 13-11-2019 12:25am

the problem with these type of debates/discussions and i have had many (but at least here you will leave with a full set of teeth), is each side claims to have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the ....

in reality it is more a question of perspective. take 3 historical figures. to one side they are heroes, to the other they are villians/despots.

Here's my top 3!

1. Oliver Cromwell (saviour of English democracy, and all round good-guy. enjoyed a laugh but not a big fan of Royalty.)
2. Maggie Thatcher (widely credited for defeating the IRA, the Soviet Union, and those troublesome miners. loved a nice glass of milk)
3. Sir Winston Churchill (Stood up to evil Nazism. made a few early career blunders but eventually found his feet after a few brandies)

markodaly · 13-11-2019 12:46am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have nothing to debate with you.

Thought as much

A pity you turned down my open invitation but again I know who I am dealing with.

Enjoy ranting and foaming at the mouth for the next few days.

dd973 · 13-11-2019 12:53am

fatknacker wrote: »

What's she doing in England? No one would be overjoyed if a fordiner were in ireland burning an Irish symbol like a harp or nell mccafferty

She sounds English to me, aren't they allowed to be Republican if they want? The monarchy, the UK state, the Church of England, the House of Lords, etc are socio-political arrangements not features of nature like the Pyrenees or black holes in space. They are not 'The Country', per se.

I remember being asked in a pub, in Manchester of all places by an English friend of a friend (wholly English, no Irish connections) if I supported the IRA, I said, 'Er..well a United Ireland, yes, but not by violent means'.

His response, 'Well I do, they should give Ireland back to the Irish'.

As for WW2 - 'It woz the Russians that won it'.

FrancieBrady · 13-11-2019 12:58am

markodaly wrote: »

Thought as much

A pity you turned down my open invitation but again I know who I am dealing with.

Enjoy ranting and foaming at the mouth for the next few days.

There you go again.

How many posts is that now and not a single word on the conversation being had?

FrancieBrady · 13-11-2019 1:03am

Aegir wrote: »

This is what you said:

Churchill was a critic of appeasement, something which you are trying (and failing miserably) to disprove.

I didn't say he wasn't Aegir. :rolleyes:

high_king · 13-11-2019 7:59pm

Edgware wrote: »

History isn't exactly your strong point

In actual fact, reading isn't yours.

Parachutes · 14-11-2019 4:26pm

Reading some of the tripe in this thread would make you lose a brain cell or two.

The fact of the matter is, Irish have fought in ALL of Britain’s wars, more Irish have served Britain militarily than have served Ireland, even today there are 100s of Irish, both North and South, serving in the British Army.

There’s a Republic based RBL who sell Shamrock poppies and helped Irish veterans so donate to them and not the English variety.

The fact that many thousands of Irish served in both world wars and them and their family were treated appalling by the likes of the IRA on their return is one of the most shameful parts of our history. Very few want to acknowledge, never mind remember these heroes, it’s a real shame.

The U.K is our greatest ally and friend in the world, we are interlinked in every way and probably couldn’t survive without each other. The small mindedness from some people is unbelievable.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2019 5:03pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Reading some of the tripe in this thread would make you lose a brain cell or two.

The fact of the matter is, Irish have fought in ALL of Britain’s wars, more Irish have served Britain militarily than have served Ireland, even today there are 100s of Irish, both North and South, serving in the British Army.

There’s a Republic based RBL who sell Shamrock poppies and helped Irish veterans so donate to them and not the English variety.

The fact that many thousands of Irish served in both world wars and them and their family were treated appalling by the likes of the IRA on their return is one of the most shameful parts of our history. Very few want to acknowledge, never mind remember these heroes, it’s a real shame.

The U.K is our greatest ally and friend in the world, we are interlinked in every way and probably couldn’t survive without each other. The small mindedness from some people is unbelievable.

Cool rant.

But we are not (in the main anyhow) talking about wearing the poppy or honouring Ireland's war dead.
We are discussing the rise of poppy fascism, which is now a very distinct part of this.

Parachutes · 14-11-2019 5:09pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Cool rant.

But we are not (in the main anyhow) talking about wearing the poppy or honouring Ireland's war dead.
We are discussing the rise of poppy fascism, which is now a very distinct part of this.

Where is this poppy fanaticism you are on about then?

On UK television stations and one idiot who owns a bar? I can tell you now for a fact, most English people do not wear one and treat the poppy appeal the same as any other charity appeal, like wearing a daffodil for cancer, they don’t care and go on with their daily life.

It’s only here people seem to have a problem with it.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2019 5:18pm

Parachutes wrote: »

Where is this poppy fanaticism you are on about then?

On UK television stations and one idiot who owns a bar? I can tell you now for a fact, most English people do not wear one and treat the poppy appeal the same as any other charity appeal, like wearing a daffodil for cancer, they don’t care and go on with their daily life.

It’s only here people seem to have a problem with it.

Within a few seconds you will find plenty of writings on it, By writers form Britain. Just a tiny sample:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/04/the-great-poppy-war-how-did-we-get-here
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/loathe-growing-wave-poppy-fascism-6784395
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/poppy-wear-why-not-remembrance-wars-soldiers-veterans-poppies-moeen-ali-a8031746.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7671361/Historian-David-Starkey-says-Remembrance-Sunday-crazy-religious-ritual.html
http://blogs.nottingham.ac.uk/politics/2015/11/09/the-worrying-trend-of-poppy-fascism/

It's a problem and it is getting to be a bigger problem. Downplaying it, like any problem, won't help.

Parachutes · 14-11-2019 5:35pm

readyohyeah wrote: »

Funny.

The British army are and always have been mass murderers. Members of the British army have committed some of the worst atrocities the world has ever seen. Involvment in those attrocities can't be excused because they are Irish. In fact, it's more shameful knowing the genocide they committed in Ireland.

If people were selling swastikas in support of former Nazi troops, there would be objections and rightfully so, it's the same with people supporting British army troops.

Every army has murderers.. that’s the point of an army. And the point on genocide.. well you can say the exact same about the armies of the USA, France, Spain pretty much anyone who had a colonial empire. Yeah we get it, people weren’t as enlightened years ago as they are now, you are still discounting all the good the British Army has done.

If it wasn’t for the British Army you’d be speaking German right now, and plenty Irish regiments were involved in defeating nazism.

In Germany they remember their veterans too, they just do it in a proper historical context, much like we should.

Parachutes · 14-11-2019 5:39pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Within a few seconds you will find plenty of writings on it, By writers form Britain. Just a tiny sample:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/04/the-great-poppy-war-how-did-we-get-here
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/loathe-growing-wave-poppy-fascism-6784395
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/poppy-wear-why-not-remembrance-wars-soldiers-veterans-poppies-moeen-ali-a8031746.html
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7671361/Historian-David-Starkey-says-Remembrance-Sunday-crazy-religious-ritual.html
http://blogs.nottingham.ac.uk/politics/2015/11/09/the-worrying-trend-of-poppy-fascism/

It's a problem and it is getting to be a bigger problem. Downplaying it, like any problem, won't help.

The Mirror, Dailymail, Guardian, The independent. Some top quality journalistic output there!

Plumbthedepths · 14-11-2019 5:41pm

Parachutes wrote: »

If it wasn’t for the British Army you’d be speaking German right now, and plenty Irish regiments were involved in defeating nazism. .

This particular BS never gets old. ;-)

realdanbreen · 14-11-2019 5:45pm

Sir Osis of Liver. wrote: »

Saw Louis Walsh wearing a poppy on tv earlier.

After the old knighthood eh Louis?

Thought it would be a Damehood for Louis?

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2019 5:47pm

Parachutes wrote: »

The Mirror, Dailymail, Guardian, The independent. Some top quality journalistic output there!

It is a cross section of the media...the quality of the media is not my problem. The quality of your argument that 'nobody cares about this' is dubious to say the least.

Parachutes · 14-11-2019 5:51pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is a cross section of the media...the quality of the media is not my problem. The quality of your argument that 'nobody cares about this' is dubious to say the least.

You might see one or two people wearing one in November if you walk down a street in England and most of them are older people, you’d see slightly more on Remembrance Sunday. This while poppy fascism idea is completely overblown.

The RBL makes some money out of it and they spend helping veterans, what’s the drama?

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2019 5:59pm

Parachutes wrote: »

You might see one or two people wearing one in November if you walk down a street in England and most of them are older people, you’d see slightly more on Remembrance Sunday. This while poppy fascism idea is completely overblown.

The RBL makes some money out of it and they spend helping veterans, what’s the drama?

If you don't have an issue after walking so many streets, fair enough. You should maybe not be here on this thread because the issues have been clearly laid out.

[Deleted User] · 14-11-2019 6:10pm

aah, this is so cute. Fran's baby brother just joined the internet

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2019 6:17pm

Aegir wrote: »

aah, this is so cute. Fran's baby brother just joined the internet

There was me thinking you'd finally found a friend pet!

Edgware · 14-11-2019 7:19pm

readyohyeah wrote: »

Just on this language thing. How much worse would the Nazis have been? Would they have starved millions of us and forced millions more to emigrate? The Nazis actually did some good things, do you hear many people excusing their crimes because of these few things?

Grand lads the Nazis. Did wonders for the European rail network

high_king · 14-11-2019 8:11pm

Edgware wrote: »

Grand lads the Nazis. Did wonders for the European rail network

Kinda like how the Brits did wonders providing the Irish with one.

armaghlad · 15-11-2019 12:02am

Parachutes wrote: »

The U.K is our greatest ally and friend in the world, we are interlinked in every way and probably couldn’t survive without each other. The small mindedness from some people is unbelievable.

Needed a laugh. Thanks for that!

mattser · 18-11-2019 2:49am

You have to love that little flower

FrancieBrady · 18-11-2019 8:55am

mattser wrote: »

You have to love that little flower

Yes, it supplies a magnificent opiate to an entire nation, enabling them to forget the bad bits and remember the good.
Some achievement for a 'little flower'.

The Rape of Lucretia · 18-11-2019 9:25am

As a small reminder, once a year, of the critical role the UK played, twice, in saving Europe from itself and from tyranny, when Britain stood bravely alone on the side of the angels, to give us the free, prosperous continent we all enjoy today, wearing a poppy is a very fitting act. More widespread embracing of the tradition throughout other countries in Europe would also be appropriate.

OldRio · 18-11-2019 9:30am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

As a small reminder, once a year, of the critical role the UK played, twice, in saving Europe from itself and from tyranny, when Britain stood bravely alone on the side of the angels, to give us the free, prosperous continent we all enjoy today, wearing a poppy is a very fitting act. More widespread embracing of the tradition throughout other countries in Europe would also be appropriate.

Not your best TROL. Standards are dropping.

Burning the Poppy - A thread.

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