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Defence against Dog Attacks

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  • 03-04-2020 2:11am
    #1
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭


    Hi all,

    Since the commencement of lockdown there has been a big increase in random dog attacks in my locality. Just the other day I heard of cocker spaniel being mauled to death while out for a walk with its owner by an unsupervised dog.
    I’ve also noticed a lot more dogs roaming the streets alone and I feel very uneasy about it, and I’m now quite nervous walking my own dog.

    I am wondering how best I can protect my own dog should the worst happen. I was thinking of investing in some pepper spray that I could use should another dog attack mine, but I don’t even know if something like that would even be effective? Does anyone have any suggestions?
    As an animal lover I hope to never need it, I would never be intentionally cruel to an animal but my own dog is a toy breed and an anxious little soul and I want to be able to protect us if necessary.

    Due to people being at home more they are walking their dogs at all times of the day and night so it’s becoming more difficult to avoid the ‘peak’ walking times.
    I unfortunately came across a video online where a dog had latched onto another, passerby’s were hitting the attacking dog with iron bars, hurleys, sticks, belts etc and it still wouldn’t let go of the other dog and that really frightened me.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.


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    #2
    deadlybuzzman
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭deadlybuzzman


    I had a similar worry after hearing a couple of horror stories that happened on a local beach.
    If you spray the dog you'll also spray your own dog and yourself. If you carry something like a hurley it might work on some dogs but not so much on others plus it's a pain in the ass having another thing to carry along with poo bags etc.
    I made what's called a break stick, Google it to see what they're like and how to use it but essentially it's a wedge.
    If a dog bites on and holds you grab the dog by the scruff of the neck, put the stick in at the back of The mouth and twist it like a motorbike throttle. It's effect and easy to have sitting in a good sized jacket pocket


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    #3
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,726 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    There are a couple of things to note about break sticks.
    Firstly, they are, strictly speaking, illegal to have in your possession, as they are considered paraphernalia of dog fighting, Dog fighting and all that goes with it including possession of associated equipment, was outlawed in the Animal Health and Welfare Act 2013.
    Secondly, and to my mind far more significantly, break sticks were always designed to be used to break up (fighting) bull breeds, which are more inclined to clamp down on the one spot when they bite, just holding on to the same part of the other dog without letting go.
    However, most other breeds and types, particularly non bull breed terriers, are far, far more likely to transfer their bite from one spot to the next, causing multiple bite wounds. Break sticks are dangerous to use on non bull breeds for this reason, because the likelihood of the human being bitten, and bitten badly, is hugely greater, as the dog transfers its bite in a very disinhibited situation. They are not considered appropriate for use in non bull breeds.


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    #4
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,002 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    I understand that a strong poke up the arse with a pointy object can be effective.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #5
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,360 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Theres people down my way who let their dogs out, off leash. I'm always watching out for it. And keep away from them. I wont go near a dog off leash, even if I'm not walking the dogs.


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    #6
    LilacNails
    Registered Users Posts: 647 ✭✭✭LilacNails


    Bring a stick with you while walking, I seen people everyday walking with one and not as an aid.


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    #7
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,726 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    I understand that a strong poke up the arse with a pointy object can be effective.

    Another tale from the dog fighting ring, if you pardon the pun. I defy any normal dog owner to actually
    (a) be able to grab a big, unknown dog by the scruff, before inserting a break stick between its jaws whilst it is trying to shred another dog, or
    (b) be able to grab a big, unknown dog by the tail (if it has one) or hind quarters, in order to insert a pointed object into its butt whilst it is trying to shred another dog...

    ... without the owner themselves getting seriously injured. Let alone the chances of actually, physically being able to do either action at all, in such a situation, are vanishingly small.


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    #8
    em_cat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭em_cat


    I’m very lucky that Esmae is now trained to jump up into my arms & onto my shoulder, trick training, as it came it handy today as a toy poodle made his was all the way around the village to jump at her, he broke the lead to get to her. He wasn’t aggressive and truly wanted to play but she is pretty fearful when that happens so I’m glad she made that choice to get away from him. If Mr C had been with us it would’ve been a different story altogether.


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    #9
    volchitsa
    Registered Users Posts: 7,000 ✭✭✭volchitsa


    DBB wrote: »
    Another tale from the dog fighting ring, if you pardon the pun. I defy any normal dog owner to actually
    (a) be able to grab a big, unknown dog by the scruff, before inserting a break stick between its jaws whilst it is trying to shred another dog, or
    (b) be able to grab a big, unknown dog by the tail (if it has one) or hind quarters, in order to insert a pointed object into its butt whilst it is trying to shred another dog...

    ... without the owner themselves getting seriously injured. Let alone the chances of actually, physically being able to do either action at all, in such a situation, are vanishingly small.

    That's what I thought too, reading that. Like, I'm not afraid of my own dog at all, I can do anything with her. But if she was really in a fight with another dog I'd be very wary of taking a bite by accident. When she's really tense watching a "danger" of some sort, she jumps when you touch her. She's not in a normal frame of mind at that point. And that's without there being a fight going on.

    As for the idea of getting up close like that with an unknown dog who was sattacking mine, I just can't imagine how someone would be able to do all that without getting something important wrong and either completely failing to break them up or even getting badly hurt themselves in the process. Or both.


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    #10
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,002 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    So, no break sticks out point objects...

    The hurl or stout stick suggestions have not been advised against yet. What do the experts say to those? I presume if you plan to use one of those you would have to intend to inflict serious injury (or death) on the attacking dog, or else they would probably not be effective. Then you have to expect to be confronted by a possible scumbag owner...

    I have been told (by a responsible expert) that lifting the attacking dog of the ground by the back legs *may* be effective. Obviously, you are putting yourself at risk. There is a progression of this technique (which I will not describe here).

    Can anyone who has advised against the break bar or pointy object give any constructive advice to the OP?

    Edit: Found these pages

    https://nycdoggies.com/break-up-dog-fight/

    https://www.vetwest.com.au/pet-library/fighting-how-to-break-up-a-dog-fight

    and more via this search

    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=how+to+separate+fighting+dogs&t=fpas&ia=web

    Not your ornery onager



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    #11
    tk123
    Registered Users Posts: 14,020 ✭✭✭✭tk123


    Why not call the dog warden / or even the local Garda station so they can increase patrols?


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    #12
    DBB
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,726 Mod ✭✭✭✭DBB


    Esel wrote: »
    The hurl or stout stick suggestions have not been advised against yet. What do the experts say to those? I presume if you plan to use one of those you would have to intend to inflict serious injury (or death) on the attacking dog, or else they would probably not be effective. Then you have to expect to be confronted by a possible scumbag owner...

    Personally, I have no problem with carrying a stick. Not so sure about a hurl though. A stick, in my experience, can be very effective in stopping a dog before either you or your own dog are attacked at all, and you don't even have to make contact with the attacking dog for the stick to keep him away.
    I have been told (by a responsible expert) that lifting the attacking dog of the ground by the back legs *may* be effective. Obviously, you are putting yourself at risk.

    Again, too many of these suggestions are in the realms of more "controlled" fighting, not your dog fight in the park with panicking owners. If you grab the offending dog by anywhere further down the leg than the stifle (the junction between body and hind leg) and pull, you are liable to (a) do serious damage to the dog's legs, and (b) end up with the dog hanging out of you.
    For me, if I had a small dog, I would pick them up, and shield them as best I can. Now, let me make it clear that this is only my personal feeling... I would prefer to take a bite from an attacking dog, than to see my little dog ripped apart, and I have done so.
    There are 2 other upshots from doing this.
    1. Owners are more likely to try to control their dog if it's a human they're attacking,
    2. An attack on a human is specifically dealt with under the dog control legislation and is a criminal matter. An attack on a dog is not, and can generally only be dealt with under civil law.

    In situations where an owner is almost expecting trouble, as the op is, a pet corrector airspray can be very effective to put an attacking dog off. But... here's the thing... your own dog must first be trained to accept the sound of it, because most dogs find it unpleasant.


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    #13
    charlietheminxx
    Registered Users Posts: 2,579 ✭✭✭charlietheminxx


    DBB wrote: »
    For me, if I had a small dog, I would pick them up, and shield them as best I can. Now, let me make it clear that this is only my personal feeling... I would prefer to take a bite from an attacking dog, than to see my little dog ripped apart, and I have done so.

    I have had to pick my dog up twice in the last fortnight.... and she's a 24kg staffie cross!

    She's very nervous/unsure of small dogs in general and we have had a couple off lead come bounding up and probably just wanting to play, but I would be afraid she might kick off out of nerves. There was nothing I could do only scoop her up (she is very calm in general and doesn't mind being lifted or held) - in one case the owner had earphones in and couldn't hear me asking them to call their dog back but they were very apologetic afterwards, in the other there was no owner in sight and I had to carry my dog away and around the corner.

    I have no problem with dogs being off-lead when they are under control, close to their owner who is supervising them properly and with good recall.

    Unfortunately, this hasn't been the case recently and we are skipping our usual lunchtime walk because there are just too many families around with off lead dogs.

    It's very frustrating.


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    #14
    Snails pace
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Snails pace


    Long time follower of the forum, first time poster. Speaking from experience of a vicious dog attack on animals. If a dog latches onto another dog or animal there's few ways to get a dogs jaw to open. A deterrent would be a short hurley (size 36) or a brush handle the same lenght. If you see a dog that might attack your dog, keep your dog by your side and have the hurley ready incase things escalate. If your dog does get attacked and the other dog won't let go, dont try call off the dog because its a waste of time. Certainly don't grab the attacking dog or try lift him because you'll be bitten. <snip> Even then theirs still no guarantee they'll let go.


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    #15
    Cherry Blossom
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional North West Moderators Posts: 6,928 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cherry Blossom


    Ok, I have to step in here. As per the forum charter you may not advocate violence against any animal, actual or theoretical. I think we can do without detailed instructions on how to break a dogs jaw.

    Thanks for your cooperation.
    CB.


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