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Rainman16 · 08-10-2016 7:40am #1

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walshb · 08-10-2016 2:38pm

Joshua Points

Interesting, but not surprising to see AJ a slight favourite with Paddy Power. 5/4 on. Wlad is evens.

Burial. · 08-10-2016 10:53pm

Klitschko Points

Wlad by KO 2/1 is looking as sweet as a nut as is Joshua by KO 6/4 to be fair. Last chance saloon for the Wlad, and no streak or no belts to hold him back...plus coming off a pretty embarrassing loss. Should be a man possessed.

Rainman16 · 09-10-2016 1:19am

Wlad cannot be as bad as he was against Fury. I watched that fight in disbelief. I don't know what the hell he was doing that night.

For me Joshua is a better fighter than Fury. I think he will beat Klitschko

Littlehorny · 09-10-2016 10:39am

Joshua Points

Love the way Hearn says alot has been happening in the heavyweight landscape, problem is its all outside the ring! 3 or 4 men all claiming to be the champ. I must be getting old but i harp back to when we had a champ and everyone knew he was no.1 because he took on all comers and fought more than once a f***in year! Rant over

Danye · 09-10-2016 12:11pm

I watched the interview with Hearn and he also said a fight of this magnitude deserves a longer run up than this would have, if it got done for the Nov date.

Being a sceptic, I think the fight won't happen with AJ. Wlad will be on the AJ card alright and Hearn will be hoping that both come through their respective fights and then he'll confirm their fight early 2017 and get the hype train going!

walshb · 09-10-2016 2:29pm

Joshua Points

Littlehorny wrote: »

Love the way Hearn says alot has been happening in the heavyweight landscape, problem is its all outside the ring! 3 or 4 men all claiming to be the champ. I must be getting old but i harp back to when we had a champ and everyone knew he was no.1 because he took on all comers and fought more than once a f***in year! Rant over

That's not a rant. Just pure sense.

Morrison J · 09-10-2016 2:50pm

Klitschko Points

Danye wrote: »

I watched the interview with Hearn and he also said a fight of this magnitude deserves a longer run up than this would have, if it got done for the Nov date.

Being a sceptic, I think the fight won't happen with AJ. Wlad will be on the AJ card alright and Hearn will be hoping that both come through their respective fights and then he'll confirm their fight early 2017 and get the hype train going!

Couldn't imagine Wlad ever being on an AJ undercard. He'd fight a tune up in Germany if that was to happen. **** marinating fights though. If it's going to happen it should happen next. December 10th in the Millennium Stadium. It'd be massive.

Morrison J · 09-10-2016 2:52pm

Klitschko Points

Rainman16 wrote: »

Wlad cannot be as bad as he was against Fury. I watched that fight in disbelief. I don't know what the hell he was doing that night.

For me Joshua is a better fighter than Fury. I think he will beat Klitschko

Different styles make different fights though. AJ will suit Wlad a lot more because he's extremely stiff as a fighter. He'll be able to land on AJ a lot more comfortably and we're yet to see any evidence that AJ can take a shot..

StringerBell · 10-10-2016 1:49am

Any evidence?

The shot Whyte him him with that rocked him was evidence enough he doesn't fold easily.

Morrison J · 10-10-2016 7:35am

Klitschko Points

StringerBell wrote: »

Any evidence?

The shot Whyte him him with that rocked him was evidence enough he doesn't fold easily.

Any fighter above British level finishes him off in that situation imo. AJ was ready to go.

TheNap · 10-10-2016 10:48am

Rainman16 wrote: »

Wlad cannot be as bad as he was against Fury. I watched that fight in disbelief. I don't know what the hell he was doing that night.

For me Joshua is a better fighter than Fury. I think he will beat Klitschko

Other than conditioning and power Fury is better in every other aspect.

StringerBell · 10-10-2016 11:00am

Morrison J wrote: »

Any fighter above British level finishes him off in that situation imo. AJ was ready to go.

He was, it was the first time he had been hit flush, the first time he had been rocked, and he fought through it and recovered. Hard to fault him there and the experience will stand to him.

You said zero evidence he can take a shot, that is plainly wrong as illustrated by my post.

djhaxman · 10-10-2016 1:24pm

TheNap wrote: »

Other than conditioning and power Fury is better in every other aspect.

Speed? Joshua is quicker than Fury imo, and combine that with power and Fury's in trouble.

TheNap · 10-10-2016 1:47pm

djhaxman wrote: »

Speed? Joshua is quicker than Fury imo, and combine that with power and Fury's in trouble.

I disagree . Joshua is robotic .

Morrison J · 10-10-2016 3:14pm

Klitschko Points

StringerBell wrote: »

He was, it was the first time he had been hit flush, the first time he had been rocked, and he fought through it and recovered. Hard to fault him there and the experience will stand to him.

You said zero evidence he can take a shot, that is plainly wrong as illustrated by my post.

My point is that he's been hit clean once in his career and been wobbled. I'm yet to see him brush off a clean punch and come back without being wobbled hence why I've seen no evidence that he's not chinny.

Happens against Wlad and he's done. It was much more Whyte being poor in the situation than it was AJ recovering well imo. He was completely there for the taking.

StringerBell · 10-10-2016 3:26pm

That's a different argument to the one you initially claimed, that there was not any evidence he could take a punch.

Morrison J · 10-10-2016 3:31pm

Klitschko Points

StringerBell wrote: »

That's a different argument to the one you initially claimed, that there was not any evidence he could take a punch.

Depends on your definition of taking a punch is I suppose?

Mine would be whether you get wobbled easily or not after getting hit.

walshb · 10-10-2016 3:32pm

Joshua Points

Wlad does not throw the kind of punch that Whyte wobbled AJ with. The Whyte shot was a peach of a left hook. Wlad does not, and will not generate that kind of delivery power. Wlad will likely try to pick and poke and swipe and grab and hold his way to a points win. I don't see his chin avoiding or surviving AJ. For me it's Wlad's chin that is really questionable in this matchup.

sxt · 10-10-2016 5:16pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

The Whyte shot was a peach of a left hook. Wlad does not, and will not generate that kind of delivery power.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8zgIiq1Yog

walshb · 10-10-2016 5:32pm

Joshua Points

sxt wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8zgIiq1Yog

Pulev is muck. That was not the same shot. That was of less impact. Won't do that against AJ. AJs height and range and power will see Wlad fighting scared for the night.

walshb · 10-10-2016 5:42pm

Joshua Points

Many many great chinned fighters were wobbled and rocked from single shots. Tyson against Bruno in fight 1 rd 1. Ali badly wobbled vs. Shavers in rd 2. Both shook the shot and recovered. Are they weak chinned? AJ may or may not be iron chinned. Using the Whyte shot as some reason that his chin is not solid is silly. Caught flush and clean and did not go down. Wobbled and stunned, but fought back. No different than the two examples from the fighters I named. Both Tyson and Ali had solid beards. The power these HWs generate is scary. Nothing to do with how talented they are, even the 'duds' can knock down buildings.

Morrison J · 10-10-2016 7:16pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Many many great chinned fighters were wobbled and rocked from single shots. Tyson against Bruno in fight 1 rd 1. Ali badly wobbled vs. Shavers in rd 2. Both shook the shot and recovered. Are they weak chinned? AJ may or may not be iron chinned. Using the Whyte shot as some reason that his chin is not solid is silly. Caught flush and clean and did not go down. Wobbled and stunned, but fought back. No different than the two examples from the fighters I named. Both Tyson and Ali had solid beards. The power these HWs generate is scary. Nothing to do with how talented they are, even the 'duds' can knock down buildings.

Ali and Tyson comparisons are a massive reach though. Big difference between being caught once in your career and wobbled or taking a number of shots but being wobbled by the odd single shot. AJ has taken one clean punch and been wobbled once.

Its also a fact that he's been knocked clean out by David Price in sparring.

He may in the end of it have a good chin but I'm just skeptical until I actually see him take a good shot and not be wobbled. Be interesting to see what happens if Wlad does land clean.

walshb · 10-10-2016 7:35pm

Joshua Points

A punch is a punch. I was very clear. I never compared careers as regards chins. I simply gave examples of single incidents. Ali was rocked and wobbled several times throughout his career. AJ took the Whyte shot. If anything it should be shown as a positive, not a negative. Similar to many other examples through history. For me it is more a sign-indicator that he "may" well possess a solid chin.

It is not a fact that he was clean knocked out by Price. Even if it does really suit your stance.

Morrison J · 10-10-2016 7:44pm

Klitschko Points

I just don't see any way that being wobbled 100% of the time you've been caught can be spun into a positive. He was just incredibly lucky that Whyte didn't have the ability to finish him off. There was no method or skill to AJ's survival in that fight.

walshb · 10-10-2016 7:47pm

Joshua Points

Getting momentarily wobbled by a really good and clean HW shot and not going down, staying upright and surviving, to going on to stop your opponent...You can't see a positive...? Fair enough....

Morrison J · 10-10-2016 7:58pm

Klitschko Points

You're being very generous given who his opponent was tbf. There is little positives in beating Dillian Whyte over 7 rounds if you are a legit world heavyweight champion.

walshb · 10-10-2016 8:03pm

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

You're being very generous given who his opponent was tbf. There is little positives in beating Dillian Whyte over 7 rounds if you are a legit world heavyweight champion.

You are veering off course. Whyte to me is not all that good. The shot he hit AJ with was a peach. Like I said earlier, even 'dud' HWs can punch.

Btw, it was Whyte's first defeat.

Littlehorny · 10-10-2016 8:07pm

Joshua Points

Come on lads- BREAK! and no hitting on the break

The fight hasn't even been announced yet and hopefully it will be. These two men are built like fookin oak trees and no chin in the world is going to stand up to a piledriver from either of them so IF the fight is made, it could come down to who brings it on the night or who gets lit up first.

Morrison J · 10-10-2016 8:10pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

You are veering off course. Whyte to me is not all that good. The shot he hit AJ with was a peach. Like I said earlier. Even 'dud' HWs can punch.

Btw, it was Whyte's first defeat.

What's the relevance to it being Whyte's first defeat? He'd only fought Bulgarian binmen essentially.

Bottom line is if AJ gets wobbled everytime someone lands clean on him he's not going to have a very successful career. He got lucky against Whyte but with a move up in quality of opposition he wont get that lucky again.

Jury is out on him for me until he proves he can take a shot.

Will agree to disagree.

walshb · 10-10-2016 8:14pm

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Jury is out on him for me until he proves he can take a shot.
.

No issue there. To date he has proved it. That was my point. I just felt that the Whyte example to kind of diss his chin is both unfair and illogical. To me it showed a good chin. Not great, as we will, as you said, need to wait and see.

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