Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

Shurimgreat · 19-10-2015 7:21pm

Typical Irish situation. Someone does a great job, brings a lot of success to a team and someone wants to muscle in on the glory. That's my take on it.

super_furry · 19-10-2015 7:49pm

Just listened to Billy Walsh on Newstalk, he made it very clear that the IABA had no intention of trying to keep him. Fergal Carruth has serious questions to answer but he won't. He'll go to ground and send his brother out to do his talking.

Mr.Nice Guy · 19-10-2015 8:09pm

Very saddened to hear this. He's been a credit to Irish sport. Our loss will be America's gain.

efb · 19-10-2015 8:40pm

Still awaiting IABA explanation...

walshb · 19-10-2015 9:08pm

efb wrote: »

Walshb:
You know, maybe all this talk of picking boxers etc is just a smoke screen from what these issues are almost always about, money!

Why you think that? Everyone agrees it's not about money

So, if you are so sure money has zero to do with it then maybe you can tell us what exactly it is about? Listening to Billy today he said it was never 'really' about money. Didn't sound all that convincing. I am not saying money is the only issue, but to be so certain, like you are, that it's nothing to do with money is naive at best. You've been hinting that you know what it's about, or have a good idea what it's about, but you have said nothing or shown nothing. I don't think this is only about management and autonomy.

walshb · 19-10-2015 9:09pm

super_furry wrote: »

Just listened to Billy Walsh on Newstalk, he made it very clear that the IABA had no intention of trying to keep him. Fergal Carruth has serious questions to answer but he won't. He'll go to ground and send his brother out to do his talking.

Nonsense. You know nothing about the CEO of the IABA, or why MC chose to go onto Liveline.

Tobyglen · 20-10-2015 12:19am

Shambles, muppets in the IABA- wouldn't even go on newstalk when asked to explain the situation. Walsh has done an incredible job and is a honest bloke- give him everything he needs.

Joe_ Public · 20-10-2015 1:36am

Been a while since I was a member here, but as a fan of Irish amateur boxing - no insider info - I was moved to register again just to express sheer bafflement and anger at the latest turn of events. I listened to Billy Walsh breaking down on RTE this evening and it's obvious it's breaking his heart to leave. I don't believe he thought it would come to this, that he'd go to the World Champs, preside over a country finishing fourth in the world - FOURTH! - and come home to a warm reception and a new agreeable contract to Rio and beyond. The FAI are rushing to sign Martin O'Neill up for another campaign and they're only in a play-off yet.

And people suggesting we need to hear the IABA's side. Well yes, same goes for basically every Irish boxing debacle over the past 10 years. We need to hear the IABA's side, but never do. Who even are the IABA? A bunch of guys, I guess, maybe a token female possibly, who like to keep a very low profile. Maybe they're answerable to the clubs and delegates of the various bodies, but they certainly aint answerable to the court of public opinion anyway. Maybe people think that's how it should be.

Gary Keegan, Billy Walsh, Jim Moore - arguably the 3 coaches/administrators involved in the Irish set-up past 15 years, all left their positions under a cloud and maybe that tells a story. And Zaur Antia is a great coach, loved by the boxers, but a high performance director? Very doubtful. Same goes for Pete Taylor and probably any other name that will be thrown into the mix. The next move here gonna be very interesting to observe.

efb · 20-10-2015 1:38am

Walshb, you seem very defensive of the IABA, when all agree they dropped the ball on this one.

All being interviewed said it wasnt money, even Carruth, so I believe that.

Your namesake is a great loss to Irish Sport.

efb · 20-10-2015 1:42am

walshb wrote: »

super_furry wrote: »

Just listened to Billy Walsh on Newstalk, he made it very clear that the IABA had no intention of trying to keep him. Fergal Carruth has serious questions to answer but he won't. He'll go to ground and send his brother out to do his talking.

Nonsense. You know nothing about the CEO of the IABA, or why MC chose to go onto Liveline.

Do you not think the IABA should be answering these questions????

efb · 20-10-2015 1:57am

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/boxing/sport-ireland-issue-statement-criticising-iaba-following-resignation-of-billy-walsh-34122472.html

Sport Ireland release a statement while the IABA circle the wagons...

Joe_ Public · 20-10-2015 2:06am

efb wrote: »

Sport Ireland release a statement while the IABA circle the wagons...

Well, that's the six million dollar question. What were the terms of the contract that, according to Sport Ireland, wasn't put forward for ratification? Seems fair to assume it wasn't about money if they were going to pick up the slack for Billy's wages. Must have to do with picking teams, possible box-offs, selection of team managers etc etc...but we might never know for sure.

price690 · 20-10-2015 2:35am

Reading between the lines, I'd say a few of the suits (who rightly or wrongly see themselves as the real boxing folk in Ireland) quietly resent the mainstream praise Billy Walsh has gained from the success of the high performance unit. They obviously see him as simply being the tip of the iceberg in terms of the success enjoyed, rather than the main reason (which the media have portrayed him as).

And their attempts to show him his true place in the pecking order of Irish boxing have backfired.

And unfortunately for the IABA cronies, they neither have the brains nor subtlety to mask these true reasons, despite their inevitable guff that will come out about him wanting too much money. Although they will have to form a new plan of attack now that Sport Ireland have pretty much confirmed that money was never the issue.

It's a case of the green eyed monster I reckon, amongst IABA delegates who are probably jealous of seeing themselves constantly bypassed when credit for medals gets handed out.

section4 · 20-10-2015 2:44am

efb wrote: »

Do you not think the IABA should be answering these questions????

i had a season ticket at the stadium for years, then they put the price up during the recession from 100 e to 150 e, i emailed and said that they should not be doing that during the recession as it would stop people like me who had been going to the stadium for years through thick and thin being able to keep my season ticket as i was unemployed for a few years, i might as well have been talking to the wall,no contact back, phoned up the stadium talked to the secretary but could talk to no one else, managed to buy the season ticket for that year and while attending shows at the stadium tried to talk to a few of the committee about the hike in prices during the recession, waste of time, these people are out of touch with reality, needless to say i never renewed the ticket this last few years, so they lost some one who first went to the stadium in 1980 and done all i could to support them but after their attitude when putting the price up in the recession and the way they talked to me then, as if i wasnt important and this shambles today, i dont blame billy for going he is right, just as i was right to stop going to the stadium, if they dont appreciate their loyal fans and coaches then lets see how they get on from here on in.
I dont know about any power struggles within the iaba between Billy Walsh or Fergal Carruth, but i did have experience of Fergal Carruth who was involved in a football team i played for for a while, and lets just say their was a lot of nepotism.

efb · 20-10-2015 2:48am

Very sorry to hear you were priced out of the stadium. When I was an R/J I was there a lot, you would see the familiar faces in the crowd, not club affiliated like the boxers teams, just fans with a passion for the sport. Sorry to hear you were priced out.

Nodin · 20-10-2015 6:11am

walshb wrote: »

So, if you are so sure money has zero to do with it then maybe you can tell us what exactly it is about? Listening to Billy today he said it was never 'really' about money. Didn't sound all that convincing. I am not saying money is the only issue, but to be so certain, like you are, that it's nothing to do with money is naive at best. You've been hinting that you know what it's about, or have a good idea what it's about, but you have said nothing or shown nothing. I don't think this is only about management and autonomy.

It's been documented that the agreement which the board "failed to consider" and Walsh was happy with was for less money than the Americans were offering. The sticking points were with regards to authority. Precisely why you're claiming otherwise is beyond me.

The reason it never came before the board is that way they effectively shot it down without having officially done so, thus allowing them play pilate. Theres been tension there for many years, and, if I recall correctly, the "ko-mitt-ee" had some issues with his predecessor as well.

Nodin · 20-10-2015 6:13am

Tobyglen wrote: »

Shambles, muppets in the IABA- wouldn't even go on newstalk when asked to explain the situation. Walsh has done an incredible job and is a honest bloke- give him everything he needs.

Better to say nothing than to deny something being the logic there presumably. The truth is that they are unwilling to budge and are happier with him gone.

walshb · 20-10-2015 7:52am

Nodin wrote: »

It's been documented that the agreement which the board "failed to consider" and Walsh was happy with was for less money than the Americans were offering. The sticking points were with regards to authority. Precisely why you're claiming otherwise is beyond me.

The reason it never came before the board is that way they effectively shot it down without having officially done so, thus allowing them play pilate. Theres been tension there for many years, and, if I recall correctly, the "ko-mitt-ee" had some issues with his predecessor as well.

If you bothered to read what I wrote then you'd see that I suggested that financials-packages were likley one of the reasons for this mess. One! To suggest otheriwise is baffling. Walsh himself yesterday may as well admitted that financials played a part.

The autonomy seems to be a big reason here. Reading between the lines it seems that Billy wanted more influence and power, and the IABA were not prepared to allow this. This is likley what tipped him over the edge.

Anyway, for me this is a storm in a teacup. Yesterday's news. He has gone. He served very well, and I was always a fan of Billy, the boxer. I don't know the man personally, but from listening to the boxers he seemed to have a rapport with them, allthough, people also can be diplomatic and nice for the sake of being nice. None of us really know exactly the feelings of all the HP boxers as regards Billy.

The lads will move on, and Billy will be replaced. Paddy Barnes seems confiden that this will be the case. The HP unit will still march on and all going well will still produce world class boxers.

I have sympathy for Walsh. But until I know the dealings, the real nitty gritty then I will not join the mob in castigating a whole organisation, when maybe, just maybe, it was one man trying to dictate to a whole organisation.

walshb · 20-10-2015 7:55am

efb wrote: »

Walshb, you seem very defensive of the IABA, when all agree they dropped the ball on this one.
.

Because I am not jumping on the mob bandwagon attacking and slating the IABA does not mean I am very defensive of the IABA.

walshb · 20-10-2015 8:28am

The IABA released a statement yesterday. http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/boxing/iaba-release-statement-following-resignation-of-billy-walsh-34122547.html

Take from it what you will.

THE Irish Amateur Boxing Association has announced that it has accepted the resignation of Billy Walsh as Head Coach of the High Performance Unit ‘with regret’.

In a statement chief executive Fergal Carruth – a brother of 1992 Olympic gold medalist Michael Carruth – revealed that the IABA will make a further announcement over the coming days in relation to the succession plans for the High Performance Unit.

However, the statement fails to address why the IABA and Walsh could not reach agreement about his future. Carruth simply states that ‘Billy himself has made the decision to resign and take up a position with USA boxing.’

While the chief executive claims that the IABA did their utmost to retain Billy Walsh as head coach the overall tone of the statement suggests there is no possibility of reconciliation between the two parties.

The full statement from Fergal Carruth read: “The IABA has been in discussions with Billy following his approach to the organisation to seek improved terms and conditions after he stated that he had received an offer from USA Boxing.

“The IABA is deeply disappointed not to retain his valued services, and for the avoidance of any doubt, the IABA has done its utmost to retain Billy Walsh as Head Coach. However, Billy himself has made the decision to resign and take up a position with USA Boxing, and we wish him every success with this.”

Expressing gratitude to Billy Walsh for the great service he has given to boxing in Ireland, Fergal Carruth continued:

“Billy has been part of a team within the High Performance Unit since its inception in 2003. We would like to thank him for the tremendous hard work and dedication he has brought to the role and acknowledge his contribution to the great success of the Unit and its boxers.

“Along with the other coaching members and support staff of the High Performance Unit, the focus, professionalism and dedication brought by Billy to his role as Head Coach, has enabled the winning structures to be put in place, which has allowed our elite boxers reach their highest potential on the World and Olympic stages.

“On behalf of the IABA, I would like to reassure boxing fans that the exceptionally high skill levels of boxing being taught throughout the clubs of Ireland continue to nurture the rich talent required to succeed at the highest level.

“This conveyor belt of boxing talent will continue to be developed and coached by the dedicated High Performance Unit team, and the IABA is confident of the continuing success of our elite boxing athletes as they prepare for next year’s Olympic Games.”

Joe_ Public · 20-10-2015 8:48am

walshb wrote: »

Because I am not jumping on the mob bandwagon attacking and slating the IABA does not mean I am very defensive of the IABA.

So to want to defend Billy Walsh and his record as HP director/head coach is to be part of a mob. Pretty stupid comment to be fair.

walshb · 20-10-2015 8:52am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

So to want to defend Billy Walsh and his record as HP director/head coach is to be part of a mob. Pretty stupid comment to be fair.

Sorry, I never said that. You have interpreted this incorrectly. No issue with anyone defending and praising Billy. I am one of these. My point was that I won't castigate and slag the IABA when I don't know the nitty gritty of this. You can defend Billy whilst not slagging the IABA. You do realise this? There is a section of people who are hell bent of slating the IABA, without knowing the facts. Blanket slagging.

JJN is now jumping on the bandwagon. Not just happy to applaud and praise Walsh. He felt the need to go on the attack about a whole organistaion, that you can bet served him very well during his time. It's about loyalty and class. His own amateur club had Dominic O'Rourke as IABA president until recently.

Until we know all the facts the rush to castigate is out of order.

Joe_ Public · 20-10-2015 9:03am

walshb wrote: »

Sorry, I never said that. You have interpreted this incorrectly. No issue with anyone defending and praising Billy. I am one of these. My point was that I won't castigate and slag the IABA when I don't know the nitty gritty of this. You can defend Billy whilst not slagging the IABA. You do realise this? There is a section of people who are hell bent of slating the IABA, without knowing the facts. Blanket slagging.

JJN is now jumping on the bandwagon. Not just happy to applaud and praise Walsh. He felt the need to go on the attack about a whole organistaion, that you can bet served him very well during his time. It's about loyalty and class. His own amateur club had Dominic O'Rourke as IABA president until recently.

Until we know all the facts the rush to castigate is out of order.

No that's fair enough. But your original comments did need the clarification. Of course we would all like to know the facts, and the papers over the next few days will probably carry some in-depth features on the whole mess. I will wager my life that every article will portray Billy Walsh and his part in the whole farrago in glowing terms, but then that will just be interpreted by some as Billy getting a hand from his media pals again.

I suppose what JJN says is just as relevant as what Paddy Barnes says, he's not out of it that long. Katie pretty much slammed it, so did Darren O'Neill, I take it as their true feelings, you can interpret it another way. Interesting that Gerry Hussey has pointed fingers at the Sports Council for its role. Either way, to lose a head coach midway through an Olympic cycle just isn't right. Maybe after Rio was time for Billy to be cut loose, I could accept that, but now? No way, you'd fight tooth and nail to keep him if there was even a doubt about it.

super_furry · 20-10-2015 9:26am

Everything that's coming out sounds more and more damning for the IABA. John Treacy now claims that they twice backed out of an agreed deal to keep Billy - http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2015/1020/736099-john-treacy-iaba-backed-out-of-deal-to-keep-walsh/

Some really straight quotes from him too: "We probably had 20 to 30 interventions with the IABA to outline the urgency of this because Billy Walsh had an offer on the table. The Sports Council met with the IABA in July and we agreed that we’d bring Billy Walsh to the table and negotiate a deal. That happened two days late.

"Kieran Mulvey chaired that session and out of that, everyone shook hands. Billy Walsh was happy with the deal, the IABA appeared to be happy with the deal and we were happy with that deal. Finance was not going to be an issue. We got an email on the Monday to say they were taking it to the board and then we heard on the Tuesday a sub-committee on the IABA board decided not to bring it to the board."

"Then the Minister intervened and we had another session. The Sports Council was involved and another deal was hammered where Billy Walsh showed incredible flexibility around the financial aspects. He agreed to leave his full-time position in the IABA and become a contract worker. That’s a clear indication that Billy Walsh wanted to stay, we wanted to keep him. Money wasn’t the issue, it broke down on the non-financial aspects."

Still not a peep from the IABA outside of one very vague and woolly press statement.

walshb · 20-10-2015 9:31am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

No that's fair enough. But your original comments did need the clarification. Of course we would all like to know the facts, and the papers over the next few days will probably carry some in-depth features on the whole mess. I will wager my life that every article will portray Billy Walsh and his part in the whole farrago in glowing terms, but then that will just be interpreted by some as Billy getting a hand from his media pals again.

I suppose what JJN says is just as relevant as what Paddy Barnes says, he's not out of it that long. Katie pretty much slammed it, so did Darren O'Neill, I take it as their true feelings, you can interpret it another way. Interesting that Gerry Hussey has pointed fingers at the Sports Council for its role. Either way, to lose a head coach midway through an Olympic cycle just isn't right. Maybe after Rio was time for Billy to be cut loose, I could accept that, but now? No way, you'd fight tooth and nail to keep him if there was even a doubt about it.

I listened to Katie and Paddy. I don't think they slammed it in the sense that they really had a go at the IABA. They came across as very sorry that Billy left. That is to be expected. But they didn't slate the IABA in the process.

Barnes was actually very measured, and I took it that the loss, while regrettable, and sad, was not of any major concern. Paddy has a lot of praise for Zaur.

The IABA is made up of people. I am sure some are very decent and honorbale people. The way some are posting here they are really sullying the name of these people. OTT venom.

walshb · 20-10-2015 9:33am

super_furry wrote: »

Everything that's coming out sounds more and more damning for the IABA. John Treacy now claims that they twice backed out of an agreed deal to keep Billy - http://www.rte.ie/sport/boxing/2015/1020/736099-john-treacy-iaba-backed-out-of-deal-to-keep-walsh/

Some really damning quotes from him too: "We probably had 20 to 30 interventions with the IABA to outline the urgency of this because Billy Walsh had an offer on the table. The Sports Council met with the IABA in July and we agreed that we’d bring Billy Walsh to the table and negotiate a deal. That happened two days late.

"Kieran Mulvey chaired that session and out of that, everyone shook hands. Billy Walsh was happy with the deal, the IABA appeared to be happy with the deal and we were happy with that deal. Finance was not going to be an issue. We got an email on the Monday to say they were taking it to the board and then we heard on the Tuesday a sub-committee on the IABA board decided not to bring it to the board."

"Then the Minister intervened and we had another session. The Sports Council was involved and another deal was hammered where Billy Walsh showed incredible flexibility around the financial aspects. He agreed to leave his full-time position in the IABA and become a contract worker. That’s a clear indication that Billy Walsh wanted to stay, we wanted to keep him. Money wasn’t the issue, it broke down on the non-financial aspects."

Still not a peep from the IABA outside of one very vague and woolly press statement.

So without a doubt money and financials played a role. They seemd to iron that part out, seemed. Now it seems that it was down to autonomy and management within the HP set up. Again, let's hear the details on this side.

super_furry · 20-10-2015 9:38am

walshb wrote: »

So without a doubt money and financials played a role.

Very strange conclusion to draw. From that report......

"Finance was not going to be an issue."

"Billy Walsh showed incredible flexibility around the financial aspects."

"Money wasn’t the issue, it broke down on the non-financial aspects."

I absolutely look forward to hearing the IABA speak out, but doubt very much whether they will. Where is Fergal Carruth in all this?

walshb · 20-10-2015 9:43am

super_furry wrote: »

Very strange conclusion to draw. From that report......

"Finance was not going to be an issue."

"Billy Walsh showed incredible flexibility around the financial aspects."

"Money wasn’t the issue, it broke down on the non-financial aspects."

I absolutely look forward to hearing the IABA speak out, but doubt very much whether they will. Where is Fergal Carruth in all this?

The fact that financials are mentioned so frequently leads me to believe that it was an issue, and no amount of trying to say it was not an issue makes it so. It had to be some issue.

This: "Billy Walsh showed incredible flexibility around the financial aspects."

That is damning. And, maybe the IABA were the ones who were out of order as regards the financials. I am not laying the blame on Billy's door. I am saying that financials was/were an issue.

Joe_ Public · 20-10-2015 9:44am

walshb wrote: »

I listened to Katie and Paddy. I don't think they slammed it in the sense that they really had a go at the IABA. They came across as very sorry that Billy left. That is to be expected. But they didn't slate the IABA in the process.

Barnes was actually very measured, and I took it that the loss, while regrettable, and sad, was not of any major concern. Paddy has a lot of praise for Zaur.

The IABA is made up of people. I am sure some are very decent and honorbale people. The way some are posting here they are really sullying the name of these people. OTT venom.

And I appreciate where you're coming from, but excuse me if I chuckle a little at Paddy being suddenly considered the voice of reason. Among the boxers there's been no more consistently virulent critic of the IABA over the years than Paddy himself so I'd be left wondering as to the nature of this late Damascene conversion.

Also, I think we should clarify what is meant in this instance by the IABA. It's not the people in clubs, or even people on committees, it seems to be just a clique of people at the head of the organisation who wield most of the power. In the same way people hammering the FAI really only mean a couple of all-powerful individuals in the top chairs.

And of course, everybody knows and appreciates Zaur's quality and what he has brought. He was head of Georgian boxing for several years, so it wouldn't be entirely a new position for him. My own thoughts on this are that he is the only realistic candidate for the role there, but if they tried to parachute somebody in over him, then there's a solid chance he'll up sticks and head west too.

I note according to Irish Indo, Billy appears to be heading up the USA men's team too? Not heard that suggested anywhere before, doesn't in fairness say much about the state of amateur boxing over there, but they must be scratching their heads as to how a small country would let a man like that go so close to the Olympics.

Joe_ Public · 20-10-2015 9:46am

walshb wrote: »

The fact that financials are mentioned so frequently leads me to believe that it was an issue, and no amount of trying to say it was not an issue makes it so. It had to be some issue.

This: "Billy Walsh showed incredible flexibility around the financial aspects."

That is damning. And, maybe the IABA were the ones who were ouit of order as regards the financials. I am not laying the blame on Billy's door. I am saying that financials was an issue.

One of the lines from the papers that really stood out for me was: Walsh has never had a pension or any medical insurance. I mean, strewth, in this day and age! That really beggars belief as far as I'm concerned.

Billy Walsh quits ** SEE MOD WARNING #643 BEFORE POSTING

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