Post Reply  
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
17-03-2021, 19:41   #16
Del.Monte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by BalcombeSt4 View Post
Boston College tapes. It's in ED Moloney's "Voices from the Grave Book" on Hughes which I have in font of me. It nwas a couple of weeks after the first H-Block went up. Hughes said it was a way of softening the pows up before the new Maze system. McGrogan told Hughes that his mission was to poison top Republicans in prison, and this was just after Lenny Murphy poisoned his cell mate.

As a Republican just thinking about it gives me chills more than the MRF, E4A, SAS or the Glenanne Gang.

Just to clarify I'm not a dissident Republican I just believe in some of the core Republican values (some) & defend the wars (1969 - 98) , (1919 -23) & (36 - 39)



in general.

Does the 1956/62 Border Campaign not rate inclusion in your list of "wars"?
Del.Monte is offline  
Advertisement
18-03-2021, 12:39   #17
BalcombeSt4
Registered User
 
BalcombeSt4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
Does the 1956/62 Border Campaign not rate inclusion in your list of "wars"?
No, just like I couldn't defend 42-44 or 39, it's not my list either, it's histories wars, unless your implying the ones I mentioned never took place.
BalcombeSt4 is offline  
18-03-2021, 14:02   #18
Del.Monte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by BalcombeSt4 View Post
No, just like I couldn't defend 42-44 or 39, it's not my list either, it's histories wars, unless your implying the ones I mentioned never took place.

Well, the 'wars' you quote are not what I would regard as wars but then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.
Del.Monte is offline  
18-03-2021, 14:25   #19
Mick Tator
Registered User
 
Mick Tator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Posts: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
Well,........ then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.
Neither are most of the self-styled Republicans in Ireland. Too many of them have hijacked the term, just as they hijacked the language.
Mick Tator is offline  
18-03-2021, 17:57   #20
BalcombeSt4
Registered User
 
BalcombeSt4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
Well, the 'wars' you quote are not what I would regard as wars but then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.
Well that's fine, it's not as if you or me regarding them as wars or not is going to be a Earth shattering decision for anyone

But they are regarded by most people who lived through it like my mother & grandparents, British Army Generals, British Army Commanders, Sergeants, Majors etc..,British politicians, Loyalist leaders & brigadiers , IRA Commanders & Chief of Staffs, along with journalists who reported on it Peter Taylor, Mark Urban, Henry McDonald, Ed Moloney, Joe Tiernan etc... .

I mean the US at the time didn't regard (at least in public) Korea or Vietnam as wars. The US & British referred to Iraq, Libya & Afghanistan as "interventions"

Last edited by BalcombeSt4; 18-03-2021 at 18:07.
BalcombeSt4 is offline  
(2) thanks from:
Advertisement
16-04-2021, 18:21   #21
BalcombeSt4
Registered User
 
BalcombeSt4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mick Tator View Post
Neither are most of the self-styled Republicans in Ireland. Too many of them have hijacked the term, just as they hijacked the language.
I would strongly agree with that, I'm not sure about most but certainly a large portion of self-styled Republicans would not have a clue about the origins of Irish Republicanism, never mind Republicanism in different states (ie Roman or French Republicanism) or different types of Republics, (soviet, people's, constitutional, Islamic etc).
BalcombeSt4 is offline  
16-04-2021, 20:57   #22
steddyeddy
Registered User
 
steddyeddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 22,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
Well, the 'wars' you quote are not what I would regard as wars but then I'm not a republican in any sense of the the word.
Jesus Del it's far from republican thinking. I lived in Portsmouth and Southampton for a while. I knew a lot of ex service men who served in NI. Every one of them referred to it as a war. I think it's much more of a political statement not calling them a war than to call them a war.
steddyeddy is offline  
17-04-2021, 19:21   #23
Edgware
Registered User
 
Edgware's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,829
Quote:
Originally Posted by steddyeddy View Post
Jesus Del it's far from republican thinking. I lived in Portsmouth and Southampton for a while. I knew a lot of ex service men who served in NI. Every one of them referred to it as a war. I think it's much more of a political statement not calling them a war than to call them a war.
As regards the Border campaign in the 50s can you really call blowing up phone boxes and customs posts a war?
Edgware is offline  
17-04-2021, 19:41   #24
BalcombeSt4
Registered User
 
BalcombeSt4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by steddyeddy View Post
Jesus Del it's far from republican thinking. I lived in Portsmouth and Southampton for a while. I knew a lot of ex service men who served in NI. Every one of them referred to it as a war. I think it's much more of a political statement not calling them a war than to call them a war.
I agree.

Same thing with the War of Independence/Anglo-Irish War. Britain refused to accept that they were fighting a Irish guerrilla army backed by a elected Irish assembly.

A year later some of those who were being denied belligerent status by the British during the Tan War did the same thing to the guerrillas they were fighting in the Civil War & used all the powers of the state apparatus to carry out the most vicious terror campaign in Ireland during the 20th century.

Same is true of other state forces vs non-state combatants during the 20th century, most evident in the resistance campaigns against the Axis powers in WW2.
BalcombeSt4 is offline  
Thanks from:
Advertisement
17-04-2021, 22:40   #25
Del.Monte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,126
From where I'm coming from I view everything from 1916 onwards, and further back if you wish, as insurgencies rather than wars.
Del.Monte is offline  
18-04-2021, 09:43   #26
steddyeddy
Registered User
 
steddyeddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 22,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
From where I'm coming from I view everything from 1916 onwards, and further back if you wish, as insurgencies rather than wars.
No offence meant here but based on your previous posts I would say your opinion isn't really based on the facts but rather based on a political leaning. Therefore, I don't think arguing with you on this issue would be productive or something to take seriously.
steddyeddy is offline  
18-04-2021, 11:54   #27
Del.Monte
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 12,126
Quote:
Originally Posted by steddyeddy View Post
No offence meant here but based on your previous posts I would say your opinion isn't really based on the facts but rather based on a political leaning. Therefore, I don't think arguing with you on this issue would be productive or something to take seriously.

According to Wiki and other sources, an insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion against authority when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognized as belligerents (lawful combatants).

Anyway, having lived through the recent "troubles" as an interested observer from their onset in 1969/70 I think that I'm well placed to say whether it was a war or an insurgency. Anyway, as you say, there's little point in arguing about it.
Del.Monte is offline  
18-04-2021, 12:08   #28
steddyeddy
Registered User
 
steddyeddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 22,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
According to Wiki and other sources, an insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion against authority when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognized as belligerents (lawful combatants).

Anyway, having lived through the recent "troubles" as an interested observer from their onset in 1969/70 I think that I'm well placed to say whether it was a war or an insurgency.
Well again based on your previous posts I don't think you're well placed. As I say no offence meant but I think you're likely too entrenched to be objective.

I have had many members of my family involved in the troubles. Those who organised the first civil rights marches and acted in negotiations for example.

I struggle to see how the troubles was anything but a civil war. What would the UVF, UDA be rebelling against exactly.

Also according to wiki and many other sources the IRA were belligerents.
steddyeddy is offline  
22-04-2021, 19:39   #29
BalcombeSt4
Registered User
 
BalcombeSt4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
From where I'm coming from I view everything from 1916 onwards, and further back if you wish, as insurgencies rather than wars.
That's your prerogative to do so.

What would you say is the difference between a guerrilla war & a guerrilla insurgency?

If WW1 never took place & Carsons UVF carried out the violent threats they made to resist basically devo-max what would that have been?
BalcombeSt4 is offline  
22-04-2021, 19:51   #30
BalcombeSt4
Registered User
 
BalcombeSt4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 1,563
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del.Monte View Post
According to Wiki and other sources, an insurgency is a violent, armed rebellion against authority when those taking part in the rebellion are not recognized as belligerents (lawful combatants).

Anyway, having lived through the recent "troubles" as an interested observer from their onset in 1969/70 I think that I'm well placed to say whether it was a war or an insurgency. Anyway, as you say, there's little point in arguing about it.
My mother viewed them from the onset as well, she lived in Strabane from 1967 - 1981, the first person she seen get shot & klled was a deaf mute called Eammon McDevit who was shot in the back because he couldn't hear the soldier shouting.

It's a pretty famous case

Quote:
18 August 1971: Eamon McDevitt (28), a deaf mute Catholic civilian, shot during street disturbances by the British Army, Fountain Street. This incident was one of a number to feature in a European Court of Human Rights inter-state case
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tr..._Strabane#1971

I also remember reading Strabane was the most bombed town in Europe in the 1970's.

What county did you observe the so called "Troubles" from, Armagh, Tyrone, Down etc...?

Last edited by BalcombeSt4; 22-04-2021 at 20:26.
BalcombeSt4 is offline  
Post Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Remove Text Formatting
Bold
Italic
Underline

Insert Image
Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text
 
Decrease Size
Increase Size
Please sign up or log in to join the discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Share Tweet